Potential Trading

[joffaboy]

Trade Riewoldt.

Better still trade the whole list and see if we can get Geelong for it.

[mad saint guy]

Not much point in trading Kosi. We'd be lucky to get a first round pick for him and his departure would leave a big hole in the side. Who plays forward and who is the backup ruckman replacing him? Rix and Allen?

[True Blue Sainter]

Not much point in trading Kosi. We'd be lucky to get a first round pick for him and his departure would leave a big hole in the side. Who plays forward and who is the backup ruckman replacing him? Rix and Allen?

McEvoy and Allen?

I don't know. All I know is if we can snaffle a trade skewed in our favour for Kosi, we should seriously consider it. He is not an indispensable member of the side....

[plugger66]

Trade Riewoldt.

Better still trade the whole list and see if we can get Geelong for it.

Sounds good by me. Its about winning a flag not worshipping guys who will not deliver that aim. By the way it is only if it is our favour and as much as I havent been a real RL fan he seems to do ok at the trade table.

[mad saint guy]

McEvoy and Allen?

I don't know. All I know is if we can snaffle a trade skewed in our favour for Kosi, we should seriously consider it. He is not an indispensable member of the side....

If we can get a first round pick, Gary Ablett, Brad Ottens and Tom Hawkins then I'm all for it. However it's likely the best offer we could get for Kosi would be pick 8-14 or a fringe player and a second rounder.

Kosi is an important part of the team and we have no one to replace him right now. McEvoy is at least two years off being a competent AFL ruckman and Allen has hardly got a kick.

[joffaboy]

Trade Riewoldt.

Better still trade the whole list and see if we can get Geelong for it.

Sounds good by me. Its about winning a flag not worshipping guys who will not deliver that aim. By the way it is only if it is our favour and as much as I havent been a real RL fan he seems to do ok at the trade table.

Well I am sure the trade above will be in our favour.

I am actually with you plugger66 (dont fall off your chair). You are deadset correct, anyone is up for trade. If Brisbane offered Brown and their first two trades for Riewoldt we would be imbicilic not to take it. Of course that would never happen but you get my drift.

Sensible trades for Kosi or Dal or Lenny or Raph or a dozen others have to be considered.

[plugger66]

Trade Riewoldt.

Better still trade the whole list and see if we can get Geelong for it.

Sounds good by me. Its about winning a flag not worshipping guys who will not deliver that aim. By the way it is only if it is our favour and as much as I havent been a real RL fan he seems to do ok at the trade table.

Well I am sure the trade above will be in our favour.

I am actually with you plugger66 (dont fall off your chair). You are deadset correct, anyone is up for trade. If Brisbane offered Brown and their first two trades for Riewoldt we would be imbicilic not to take it. Of course that would never happen but you get my drift.

Sensible trades for Kosi or Dal or Lenny or Raph or a dozen others have to be considered.

As I just picked myself up I have added you to the list of people who actually see where we are at. Very small list mind you but growing slowly.

[joffaboy]

Where we are at is a long way behind not just Geelong and Hawthorn, but also the Western Bulldogs.

We will also have Richmond, Freo, and probably Carlton wanting a spot in the 8.

We have to improve. We plugger left everyone felt the sky would fall in.

In hindsight it was the catalyst for our 1997 tilt at the flag with all the pick we got.

We have to move on. If Kosi was traded I would be pretty dissapointed but I would throw my support behind the guy who replaced him.

The club is not about one player, coach, or anybody else.

Are we in it to win flags or laud individuals?

[TimeToShineFellas]

Untouchables
Ben McEvoy
Lenny Hayes
Max Hudghton
Nick Riewoldt
Luke Ball
Brendon Goddard
Sam Fisher
Jason Blake
Matt Maguire
Jack Steven
Stephen Milne

Armoo I pretty much agree with your lists, but just thought I would highlight Maguire and ask why you think he is Untouchable?

Let's face it the man hasn't been a factor in the last 2 seasons.

Can we afford to keep someone on the list who is consistent at breaking down?

I think it's going to be a big call this summer with what the Club does with Matthew Maguire.

imo of course!

[plugger66]

Where we are at is a long way behind not just Geelong and Hawthorn, but also the Western Bulldogs.

We will also have Richmond, Freo, and probably Carlton wanting a spot in the 8.

We have to improve. We plugger left everyone felt the sky would fall in.

In hindsight it was the catalyst for our 1997 tilt at the flag with all the pick we got.

We have to move on. If Kosi was traded I would be pretty dissapointed but I would throw my support behind the guy who replaced him.

The club is not about one player, coach, or anybody else.

Are we in it to win flags or laud individuals?

As much as I love harvs surely you realise it is to laud individuals after looking on this site. Some even suggested they were more upset with Harvs retiring than losing. We need to get over that.

[joffaboy]

As much as I love harvs surely you realise it is to laud individuals after looking on this site. Some even suggested they were more upset with Harvs retiring than losing. We need to get over that.

Agreed. It was GT who said something similiar over the course of the finals.

Harvs was great. He will always be a St.Kilda great.

But Harvs is gone - and like plugger we never won a flag with Harvs in the team (not his fault but you know what I mean).

This is why I find it strange why anyone would still long for GT as coach. he is an individual and not the club and has gone. Same with Lyon. If he stuffs up he can go to.

So you see plugger we actually do have some things about footy in common. I like your way of thinking on this issue. Sntiment is nice but doesn't get you a flag.

Just ask Blake and King from Geelong circa 2007.

[plugger66]

As much as I love harvs surely you realise it is to laud individuals after looking on this site. Some even suggested they were more upset with Harvs retiring than losing. We need to get over that.

Agreed. It was GT who said something similiar over the course of the finals.

Harvs was great. He will always be a St.Kilda great.

But Harvs is gone - and like plugger we never won a flag with Harvs in the team (not his fault but you know what I mean).

This is why I find it strange why anyone would still long for GT as coach. he is an individual and not the club and has gone. Same with Lyon. If he stuffs up he can go to.

So you see plugger we actually do have some things about footy in common. I like your way of thinking on this issue. Sntiment is nice but doesn't get you a flag.

Just ask Blake and King from Geelong circa 2007.

Yep that I agree with but I call it sentiment but I am happy to call it Sntiment. And as I have said before Gt maybe should not have been sacked but he certainly should never be reemployed.

[Richter]

Sensible trades for Kosi or Dal or Lenny or Raph or a dozen others have to be considered.

As I just picked myself up I have added you to the list of people who actually see where we are at. Very small list mind you but growing slowly.

Plugger you live in a narcisstic one man's world where only your own point of view and opinion matters.

It's all very well saying "I know where this list is at...... anyone should be viewed as tradeable".... but actually being able to do anything about it is another matter.

We are the 4th best team in the comp. and have a big gap up to the next level. Most of our core is getting into the prime zone age-wise, but we have no guns coming through under 22y.o..

What can we do about it for next season and beyond?

1/ Trade - not going to pick up any absolute guns - Kerr is too expensive for us as we don't even have one under 10 pick to trade with never mind two. Pointless to trade Kosi (see msg's point above); similar argument with Dal, probably Joey too - not because they are untouchable, but because other clubs would need to want to have them and offer up something worth having in return at a HUGE risk to us that we would be getting anything better and risking breaking up our lads mateship which is of incalculable value.

2/ Recruit

Cousins. Must make a massive effort to get him in. No other really great players available. Drafting - yes fine, but not going to impact for another 3-5 years. We may snare a decent medium CHF - Charlie was worth a try for little/no outlay but is not up to it.

3/ Improve from within

Our defenders have improved markedly - Dempster, Blake, Gilbert, (?Gwilt) have all improved under SOS/RL.

Midfielders are no better than they were 3 years ago.

Up front - better than last season but we're one medium marking target short and if Roo has an off-day then we screwed (cf Hawks and Buddy last night). Would kill for a Williams/Chapman/Varcoe type.

Coaches - given the above perhaps Rock and Barker may be replaced (NB I have no special knowledge about their talents - comments merely on the basis of what we see in the games)

Medical - vast improvements already made in the reduction of soft tissues. Need to send Dempster, Maguire and X to Lourdes for some miracle cures though.

------------------------------------------------

Obviously the answers are to try to improve in each of these areas so that the whole improves also.

Bottom line is that we look set to continue to be bridesmaids for another 2-3 years whilst our core is 25-27 then we're likely to drop away as we have nada under 22.

Good news - the quality of our core means we'll remain contenders for the next 2-3 years and play more finals footy in that time.

Bad news - we're unlikely to see the last day in September.

However, like all supporters I hope and dream that the coach does indeed have what it takes to take this team of above-average players to champions. Thompson did it, Clarkson seems to have, Paul Roos certainly managed it. I hope RL does too.

[plugger66]

Sensible trades for Kosi or Dal or Lenny or Raph or a dozen others have to be considered.

As I just picked myself up I have added you to the list of people who actually see where we are at. Very small list mind you but growing slowly.

Plugger you live in a narcisstic one man's world where only your own point of view and opinion matters.

It's all very well saying "I know where this list is at...... anyone should be viewed as tradeable".... but actually being able to do anything about it is another matter.

We are the 4th best team in the comp. and have a big gap up to the next level. Most of our core is getting into the prime zone age-wise, but we have no guns coming through under 22y.o..

What can we do about it for next season and beyond?

1/ Trade - not going to pick up any absolute guns - Kerr is too expensive for us as we don't even have one under 10 pick to trade with never mind two. Pointless to trade Kosi (see msg's point above); similar argument with Dal, probably Joey too - not because they are untouchable, but because other clubs would need to want to have them and offer up something worth having in return at a HUGE risk to us that we would be getting anything better and risking breaking up our lads mateship which is of incalculable value.

2/ Recruit

Cousins. Must make a massive effort to get him in. No other really great players available. Drafting - yes fine, but not going to impact for another 3-5 years. We may snare a decent medium CHF - Charlie was worth a try for little/no outlay but is not up to it.

3/ Improve from within

Our defenders have improved markedly - Dempster, Blake, Gilbert, (?Gwilt) have all improved under SOS/RL.

Midfielders are no better than they were 3 years ago.

Up front - better than last season but we're one medium marking target short and if Roo has an off-day then we screwed (cf Hawks and Buddy last night). Would kill for a Williams/Chapman/Varcoe type.

Coaches - given the above perhaps Rock and Barker may be replaced (NB I have no special knowledge about their talents - comments merely on the basis of what we see in the games)

Medical - vast improvements already made in the reduction of soft tissues. Need to send Dempster, Maguire and X to Lourdes for some miracle cures though.

------------------------------------------------

Obviously the answers are to try to improve in each of these areas so that the whole improves also.

Bottom line is that we look set to continue to be bridesmaids for another 2-3 years whilst our core is 25-27 then we're likely to drop away as we have nada under 22.

Good news - we'll remain contenders and play more finals footy in that time, but we're unlikely to see the last day in September.

However, like all supporters I hope and dream that the coach does indeed have what it takes to take this team of above-average players to champions. Thompson did it, Clarkson seems to have, Paul Roos certainly managed it. I hope RL does too.

Firstly if I have an opinion I am not going to consult others to see if it is popular. It is an opinion that could be right or wrong. You also say we are not likely to win a flag in the next 2-3 years but you want to get Cousins. Why worry about him if we cannot win.

[Richter]

Firstly if I have an opinion I am not going to consult others to see if it is popular. It is an opinion that could be right or wrong. You also say we are not likely to win a flag in the next 2-3 years but you want to get Cousins. Why worry about him if we cannot win.

Sure you don't - you're just another internet hack commentator like we all are. You aren't the coach or captain.

Because Cousins is a great player - would incrementally improve us. Perhaps along with all the things I mention above it might actually push us up and over the line. I did not say we "cannot win", I say that I see that we're "not likely to" - hope you can spot the difference. Hawthorn are not likely to win next week's GF but in your language that would mean they cannot win?

I can smell the roses - I see that we're likely to make it to the Finals again in the next two years but be unlikely to win a flag - I see that the sort of solutions that folks on here propose (trade half the list, draft kids) are not the magical solutions in and of themselves - but that doesn't mean that I don't want the whole club to struggle to perpetually improve. In fact year on year improvement is what as members we must demand from our club - in all aspects - playing, coaching, rehab, medical, marketing, facilities etc.,etc.

[vacuous space]

Why are we happy where we are? If you can get a deal in your favour everyone is tradable.

Who's happy with what we've got? I'm saying we're stuck with what we've got. People can do as many phantom trades involving Kosi and Dal as they want. It's not going to happen. Nobody is going to give us enough for those guys to make trading them worthwhile.

[Richter]

Why are we happy where we are? If you can get a deal in your favour everyone is tradable.

Who's happy with what we've got? I'm saying we're stuck with what we've got. People can do as many phantom trades involving Kosi and Dal as they want. It's not going to happen. Nobody is going to give us enough for those guys to make trading them worthwhile.

Spot on. Sure listen, but IMO not worth the club hawking these deals around at trade week as unlikely to come off in our favour and would be destabilising to the group.

[RodKeoghsLoveChild]

Hey Richter let me tell you how your signature ends..

"Some.... people are on the pitch, they think it's all over..... (Kosi takes a hanger in the goal square in the last minute of the Grand Final. Kosi walks back nervously and from 4 meters out directly infront hits the post. St Kilda lose by 3 points)..... IT IS NOW!!!"


Trade Kosi for draft picks. End of story.

[Richter]

And then what does that leave us......

Rucks

First ruck - Stephen King - coming to the end of his career, has been injury prone prior to the year.

Second ruck - Ben McE - still raw and unlikely to be ready for full AFL action until 2010/11

Third Ruck - Michael Rix

Fourth Ruck - ?Jason Blake. Maybe Roo in the ruck - he got a couple of hitouts yesterday.

Forward line

Now we're missing a second Tall as well as a quality medium marking target.

Sure trade Kosi for a pick and a quality ruckman or a quality medium and a pick - but who is going to give us that for him?

[doristhesaint]

McEvoy and Allen?

I don't know. All I know is if we can snaffle a trade skewed in our favour for Kosi, we should seriously consider it. He is not an indispensable member of the side....

If we can get a first round pick, Gary Ablett, Brad Ottens and Tom Hawkins then I'm all for it. However it's likely the best offer we could get for Kosi would be pick 8-14 or a fringe player and a second rounder.

Kosi is an important part of the team and we have no one to replace him right now. McEvoy is at least two years off being a competent AFL ruckman and Allen has hardly got a kick.

We r not going to get that for Kosi or Dal.

i dont not what planet some people on here r watching from but it is different from mine

[Batnoe]

when is trade week?

is it the week of october 13?

[maverick]

Agree with most on this thread except that we are behind the Bulldogs, give me a break, they are an old list, they have peaked, we have not.

We need 2-3 running players for depth, a small and tall defender and a third tall up forward.

Some of this we potentially have already on the list (they obviously need some serious development) in Armo, Steven, Eddy, Allen and McEvoy.

We need a couple of outside runners with long kicks, a mid sized tough defender and a potential key back, maybe not for next year but certainly the year after (for the key back)

A lot to ask I know, but we still have the nucleus in the peak of their careers, what we need aint that hard to find, just get some depth...

[sunsaint]

well this has been an interesting read...
firstly Saints Premiers 2008, who has been banging on in every thread he could find about Harvey, and jumping up and down that no man is bigger than the team, and then as soon as NDS or Kosi get brought up as trade bait, " they are untouchable because they are guns"
Bono, doesnt want to trade anyone because it always bites us in the butt. Citing Hall and Everitt as examples doesnt help your argument, as Hawthorn got rid of Spider, and hasnt Hall been the poster boy for sydney.

there is a fine line between team unity and doing the right thing for the club at trade time. The two names that keep getting tossed up, Kosi and NDS, have not lived up to our expectations, but we all have to draw a deep breath because both are going to be with us next year. Of the two Dal is the tough one, I think he has to move out of the center. I'm not fond of the idea of a @$400.000 loose man in defense sweeper. I would be happier if he could develop into a forward pocket +50 goal a year player. Although if he can't break a tag in the middle, I dont know how he will cope with a backman scragging him. I have pretty much lost patience with him.
Kosi is Kosi, he is just so fragile. And sorry he is just not a good option in the ruck, he gives away far too many penalties.
We desperatley need another developing tall kid in backline. Would love to see a Patty Ryder type come in, he can play on talls and quick midsize. This will free up either Goddard or Gram to the wing.
We also need to scour the country for a 20-22yr old player that is built like a tank, can run all day and doesnt mind if he puts opposition centerman in hospital for a month. Yes we need our Baker back. Oh and not forgetting the forward line we need another flanker who CAN take a big mark. Let's say a Dale Thomas.
It is going to be an interesting off season, but given Lyon's record at last years draft, I would expect another positve improvement of the clubs' list

[WayneJudson42]

Trade Riewoldt.

Better still trade the whole list and see if we can get Geelong for it.

Sounds good by me. Its about winning a flag not worshipping guys who will not deliver that aim. By the way it is only if it is our favour and as much as I havent been a real RL fan he seems to do ok at the trade table.

Well I am sure the trade above will be in our favour.

I am actually with you plugger66 (dont fall off your chair). You are deadset correct, anyone is up for trade. If Brisbane offered Brown and their first two trades for Riewoldt we would be imbicilic not to take it. Of course that would never happen but you get my drift.

Sensible trades for Kosi or Dal or Lenny or Raph or a dozen others have to be considered.

As I just picked myself up I have added you to the list of people who actually see where we are at. Very small list mind you but growing slowly.

I hope I'm on that list P66

[Legendary]

I wouldn't be trading anyone.

Delist your deadwood, stock up with kids via the draft and possibly recruit a mature aged player in the PSD if you can.

Get your improvement next year from the return of injured players - Baker, X, Attard, Ball, Maguire - and the improvement of young kids - Steven, Armitage, Geary, McEvoy, Allen.

There aren't any quick fixes for us IMO.