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Solar wrote:we didn't land a ruckman in the trade priod so it was either rix or gardiner. Gardiner showed more near the ned of the season and rix doesn't look like playing AFL again.
Congrats to eddy btw
Why do we need either. Havent we got Kosi, McEvoy and Blake as backups for the most overated position on the ground.
Overrated.
Only forwards and people who have never played the game have that opinion.
The ruckman is the most important position on the ground!
Well I played and was a backman and a poor backman but I say unless they do something around the ground they are overated especially with the 4 boundary umpires next year. By the way if it was that important why did Hawthorn win the flag this year with what most people would consider 2 ordinary ruckmen.
Because a flag is won over all positions of the ground.......Not just one.
And I was going to include backman in the above summary - but I didn't.
The influence a dominate ruckman is not clearly visible as a spectator nor is it from watching the clearance work at ground level.
BUT it is influential to the midfielder's AND extremely important.
Good decision despite the uninformed opinion appearing from some.
Gardiner has a big strong body, a bit of mongrel and knows his trade very well. To compare with King's very acceptable season, Gardiner brings what King brings plus is more mobile.
Given the scarcity of our ruck options, as highlighted by the need to use the undersized Koschitzke and Blake and the development needed for McEvoy this was the expected decision as I have consistently put despite the usual suspects saying he would be de-listed or had retired and was a waste of space.
I would suggest that the games he played up to and including the Sydney game be looked at - and you may realise the value he was to the team, a team which was underperforming at that time.
A big loss from that point on - and this was recognised by the match committee who had him one game short of re-appearing with the AFL side during the finals, after 2 games with Casey in which he showed his class and then being named as an emergency for the Preliminary Final.
Lyon removed Gardiner from the last Casey game he played, virtually after quarter time and 10 possessions in the first quarter - because he was the one player from Casey who showed he was right in the mix for AFL selection.
The coach recognises the importance of ruckmen, unlike his predecessor.
The big bodies and the abilities of King and M. Gardiner are required at St Kilda in 2009 and beyond.
Both are quality ruckmen with the ability to compete and to put the ball to advantage.
Correct decision by people who know who and what is required at football clubs which seek to be in contention for the highest honour.
plugger66 wrote:The solution is simple. We have 3 backup ruckmen. We should have enough with those numbers. We dont need Rix and MG as one isnt good enough and the other is injured more than not. Dont think either Geelong, Dogs or Hawthorn had more than 4 ruckmen on their list this year dont understand why we need 5.
who are our back up rucks?
kosi, macenvoy and LVR? you going to add a rookie or first year draftee to this?
Would be great if they were all capable of first ruck but really.....2009??
Blake was my other one because IMO he is still our second best ruck option depending on our equirements down back next year. LVR will not be at the club next year you would think. Anyway like I said the top 3 sides didnt have more than 4 ruck options this year so why are we any different.
If King goes down we need a back-up number 1 ruck. Big Mac is too raw. Kosi not up to no.1 rucking role and anyway better used as 2nd ruck/utility forward. Blake has developed into an excellent defender and is needed there especially now with Dempster gone......
........so that leaves one of Rix or Gardiner. Personally I would have gone with Rix, simply for the reason of durability..... but then he hasn't exactly shone at AFL level..... so overall, not much in it either way.
............. we may still keep both of course, but I would highly doubt it.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
To the top wrote:Good decision despite the uninformed opinion appearing from some.
Gardiner has a big strong body, a bit of mongrel and knows his trade very well. To compare with King's very acceptable season, Gardiner brings what King brings plus is more mobile.
Given the scarcity of our ruck options, as highlighted by the need to use the undersized Koschitzke and Blake and the development needed for McEvoy this was the expected decision as I have consistently put despite the usual suspects saying he would be de-listed or had retired and was a waste of space.
I would suggest that the games he played up to and including the Sydney game be looked at - and you may realise the value he was to the team, a team which was underperforming at that time.
A big loss from that point on - and this was recognised by the match committee who had him one game short of re-appearing with the AFL side during the finals, after 2 games with Casey in which he showed his class and then being named as an emergency for the Preliminary Final.
Lyon removed Gardiner from the last Casey game he played, virtually after quarter time and 10 possessions in the first quarter - because he was the one player from Casey who showed he was right in the mix for AFL selection.
The coach recognises the importance of ruckmen, unlike his predecessor.
The big bodies and the abilities of King and M. Gardiner are required at St Kilda in 2009 and beyond.
Both are quality ruckmen with the ability to compete and to put the ball to advantage.
Correct decision by people who know who and what is required at football clubs which seek to be in contention for the highest honour.
We should have kept Barry Brooks. Maybe ruckman are important but shouldnt they at least be on the ground. 27 games in 5 years doesnt really help any side.
Well Plugger, can I suggest to you that there is a Football Department at St Kilda and that Football Department have an intimate knowledge of each and every player on the list, and them some as Lyon has referred to with Drain and Ray.
So your comment "27 games in 5 years" counts for jack's crackers because as far as St Kilda FC are concerned you are totally and absolutely irrelevant.
As evidenced by M. Gardiner being viewed as a required player for at least 2009 and, accordingly, being re-signed as expected.
To the top wrote:Well Plugger, can I suggest to you that there is a Football Department at St Kilda and that Football Department have an intimate knowledge of each and every player on the list, and them some as Lyon has referred to with Drain and Ray.
So your comment "27 games in 5 years" counts for jack's crackers because as far as St Kilda FC are concerned you are totally and absolutely irrelevant.
As evidenced by M. Gardiner being viewed as a required player for at least 2009 and, accordingly, being re-signed as expected.
A required player despite your opinions.
Says it all, really!
Correct as you found out a year earlier with Barry Brooks.
Plugger, Brooks was in the wrong place with the wrong coach at the wrong time.
He had been drafted by Port Adelaide, a club well known for its depth of rucking resources, and was played at North Adelaide in his only season in Adelaide - and performed well at North Adelaide.
Port Adelaide had the courtesy of developing him at SANFL level (which is superior to VFL level by quite a bit) as Adelaide are doing with young Taylor Walker at Norwood, who is a "gun".
St Kilda traded for Brooks following the split between Thomas and Everitt and Everitt being off-loaded.
Brooks immediately got games at St Kilda, rucking with Maguire you may recall.
He showed considerable promise in those first few games but was dropped to the VFL to give him more game time - and in his game there (in which he had taken several jumping pack marks) he did his knee taking another jumping pack mark.
That cost him the statutory season, and he returned without confidence in the knee - also running to problems with Thomas who told him to go away and fix himself.
Was recalled against Port Adelaide, as a back pocket because it was obvious Port Adelaide were going to run Primus and Lade forward to stretch our defence - plus they had Tredrae at the peak of his powers.
Brooks had never played as a defender.
The result was what it was, and he disappeared until the Brisbane game where he showed his skills as a forward also doing some forward rucking.
But he was dropped the following game.
Lyon played him against Western Buldogs, where he did well but was injured.
Returned for the infamous Hawthorn "rolling flood" game, in a forward pocket and the ball simply did not get to him (or Gehrig, you may recall).
Brooks ran to some problems, being that his height and weight did not compliment his evolving into a ruckman - so he became a forward/ruckman kicking over 40 goals one season at VFL level.
He was in direct competition with Koschitzke.
He was cut.
I, for one, would have liked to seen him on the list in 2008, because he may well have been handy as a 198cm, 95kg player who could play forward, who could lead, who could mark, who could handle the ball very well and who could kick.
But he was not given the chance.
So we will never know.
Perhaps, at the end of the day he was just a King Island boy who could play footy and did not quite have the intensity for AFL footy, but is very good just below that level because of his undoubted skills.
And, no doubt, that knee injury took one of his great attributes - because he could jump and mark - and not many big guys can do that.
A Gardiner he is not.
A King he is not.
Because they do not rely on jumping - they can use their strong bodies to hold position under the ball up against the 105/110kg, 200cm gorillas who ruck these days.
To the top wrote:
Gardiner and King are genuine ruckman.
Yes grant that, but can they follow it up next year???
That's my worry....
Gardiner has not followed it up for years, and that's what is worrying me, and King is not getting any younger either, surely posters cannot expect the same level from both of them next year???
This is my concern
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
On the Gardiner vs Rix question, I'm willing to bet Rix's locker is already empty - and I mean bet. Good fella Rixy, well regarded, just not AFL capable. And, so it came to pass.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
Con Gorozidis wrote:can we have a ten line rule in saintsational. anyone who reckons their opinion is worth more than ten lines is kidding themselves.
rix = hack
kosi= confused
Well there goes most of your "opinions" then
Good move to re-sign Gardiner. Played a majority of games this season either in Seniors or reseves and was looking in good form in the latter part of the season for the Scorps.
Rix tried hard but really not up to it. Much prefer Gardiner to Rix.
Oh and all this 27 games in 5 years. Half a season he was suspended for a start.
Also how many games did King play before this season for the Cats. Seemed to be injured all the time. Same with Kosi.
People can get over injuries you know.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
I'm happy he's staying another year. Am hopeful he's still got plenty to offer and with a full pre season he can pair up with King and give first use to Monty, Ball, Hayes, Gram, Ray and Cousins. Benny might sign up with us due to the connection with Gards and I for one would think M. Gardner being a Saint for 2009 is worth the punt for that opportunity if nothing else anyway.
All upside. Forget the double trouble / bad combination BS...our house is in order and can deal with any problems.
Sainstpremiers, Brooks was not told by Thomas to go away and fix his running issues.
He had a confidence issue with his re-constructed "jumping" knee, was not performing to expectations accordingly and was told by Thomas to go away and "fix it".
To boot, the episode was in the media courtesy of the extroverted Thomas, who was the Football Department.
We now have a Football Department to handle such complex issues - because it is one thing for the Ortho to say the damange is repaired - to get back on the bike and especially in a pursuit such as AFL footy is totally different, and some do not make it back. Have you ever taken the first steps after you have been unable to use a leg for a long period of time after surgery? Held onto both sides of the running rails? It is long and it is hard, very hard.
Badly handled?
Yes, no question.
The kid was 20/21 years of age and living away from home.
And did the episode brand him, noting the branding that goes on on such sites as these?
