Nathan Caroll the modern day Darren Mead ...

[LennyBoy]

I am very disappointed to read numerous rumors that we are seriously chasing the services of Nathan Carroll for the 2009 Season.

In all honestly this would not only be a negative move in the development of our juniors, but also a sly on our already stable defensive crop of Max, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Jason Blake and Matt Maguire.

Carroll has very little to offer in my opinion and is a second rate defender who would be made to look good by the solid foundations of our defense.

I would call him a modern day Darren Mead (Port Adelaide Original) ....
* Very Workmanlike
* Not Creative
* Negative Mindset
* Average Skills
* No Pace

The modern game does not suit this mold of player, maybe in the generation of early 2000's he would have been suited to the game. Purely now with heavy exposure on one on one contests, he would be shown up by the power forwards of the game, and there versatility.

My thinking is that we focus on developing through the ranks, Nathan Carroll is not going to be a defining factor in securing a flag, Ben Cousins is, and we do not want too many list clogger's - such as we have had to carry in previous years.

[saintsRrising]

I am very disappointed to read numerous rumors that we are seriously chasing the services of Nathan Carroll for the 2009 Season.

.

Tis no rumour...as of Monday he is training with the Saints.

So they are looking at him.

However most players who train with clubs do not get picked up.

I dare say the Saints are tossing up all sorts of options at present.....Carroll, Leigh Brown...kids in the draft etc etc...

Part of Carroll's fate may well be our our selections in the main draft fall for us...

[HarveysDeciple]

agree 100%. which is a rarity kipper:-P

[3rd generation saint]

The only thing I can think of is that they feel that he would be a reasonable back up in case Max get's injured.

We do become a bit vulnerable when Max get's hurt and he might be an ok fill in for a week or two.

Not sure who Max's successor would be, though I get the feeling they might be looking to Gilbert for that roll.

[Animal Enclosure]

Zac Dawson. 22, 6'5, athletic, 4 years in a very good club, out of favour with Clarkson & got caught behind with the emergence of Gilham, Murphy and great form of Croad. Just lacking a bit of mongrel. Getting delisted may help in that regard.

Has the ability to play for another 7-8 years firstly as depth & then as a first string key defender.

Carroll- stop gap measure for 1-2 years.

[TassieJones]

Have let my thoughts been known many times, it's one of the worst decisions we could have ever made as far as recruiting.

Agree it's an insult to our defence. When did our key defenders ever let us down this year? Against Brisbane 2 of the best KF in the game kicked 6 each, but I'd be blaming the midfield for that, not much our KPD could do.

Disgraceful to think we'd want Carrol, I get the feeling someone at the club severely over rates him.

[Hurricane]

[quote="LennyBoy"]I am very disappointed to read numerous rumors that we are seriously chasing the services of Nathan Carroll [quote]

Rumors are like assholes, everyone has one and usually they are just like the people spreading them.

Archie Fraser said himself we are not "chasing" Nathan Carroll. He is TRAINING with St Kilda as many other players are doing with us and other AFL sides. DO NOT (and I must stress this) DO NOT take the fact that Carroll is training at the club that we are going to pick him up.

IF IF IF IF we did IMHO he would be for depth only. Seriously anyone that belives he is comming to St Kilda let alone will be in our 18 or 22 every week needs to take a reality check

BANG BANG

[joffaboy]

Zac Dawson. 22, 6'5, athletic, 4 years in a very good club, out of favour with Clarkson & got caught behind with the emergence of Gilham, Murphy and great form of Croad. Just lacking a bit of mongrel. Getting delisted may help in that regard.

Has the ability to play for another 7-8 years firstly as depth & then as a first string key defender.

Carroll- stop gap measure for 1-2 years.

Zac Dawson = DUD.

Wouldn't touch that dud with a ten foot pole.

Carroll is streets ahead of that useless heap of crap.

[Pilgram]

Zac Dawson. 22, 6'5, athletic, 4 years in a very good club, out of favour with Clarkson & got caught behind with the emergence of Gilham, Murphy and great form of Croad. Just lacking a bit of mongrel. Getting delisted may help in that regard.

Has the ability to play for another 7-8 years firstly as depth & then as a first string key defender.

Carroll- stop gap measure for 1-2 years.

Zac Dawson = DUD.

Wouldn't touch that dud with a ten foot pole.

Carroll is streets ahead of that useless heap of crap.

agree 103%

[mick13]

In all honestly this would not only be a negative move in the development of our juniors, but also a sly on our already stable defensive crop of Max, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Jason Blake and Matt Maguire.

Matt Maguire is part of our stable defense?

Maybe Dempster was, but now he's gone for the year.

[WayneJudson42]

Consider this scenario...

Max goes down, and Goose isn't 100%. Dempster already out.

Ok, so we bring in a kid or 2. No experience.

Kiss the season good bye.

Everyone cries out to have RL sacked.

Oh yeah, but at least we got some game time into some kids.

Roll on 2010!

[evertonfc]

I was a bit funny about Carroll but I'm coming around to it.

He's not in our best 22 but offers great insurance for our backline when Maxy misses his 4-5 games every year.

And if Carroll DOES perform, does not that free up Sam Fisher, Brendan Goddard and Jason Gram to push up and give us more run?

I'm coming around...but this is a leadership group decision IMO.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Consider this scenario...

Max goes down, and Goose isn't 100%. Dempster already out.

Ok, so we bring in a kid or 2. No experience.

Kiss the season good bye.

Everyone cries out to have RL sacked.

Oh yeah, but at least we got some game time into some kids.

Roll on 2010!

some one who gets it !!!
if we are going to pick up Carrol its going to be as an insurance option . Max is so vitly important to our team but lets be honest hes a year older and the way he go's about his footy isnt exactly the safest bet on playing every game .. goose last season was almost to the point or retiring so big questions surround if he will ever get back to his previous best form . gram isnt a defender he plays up back but wouldnt know how to Stop a player if his life depended on it .. Gilbo is average and couldnt cope with being the only hope down back . Sam Fisher is not going to be able to do it on his own .. and the rest are either injury prone or suffer inconsistant form .. Carrol is a big body , has experiance being the only hope in defence . theres a bit upside for very little cost in picking up Carrol

[Pilgram]

Consider this scenario...

Max goes down, and Goose isn't 100%. Dempster already out.

Ok, so we bring in a kid or 2. No experience.

Kiss the season good bye.

Everyone cries out to have RL sacked.

Oh yeah, but at least we got some game time into some kids.

Roll on 2010!

some one who gets it !!!
if we are going to pick up Carrol its going to be as an insurance option . Max is so vitly important to our team but lets be honest hes a year older and the way he go's about his footy isnt exactly the safest bet on playing every game .. goose last season was almost to the point or retiring so big questions surround if he will ever get back to his previous best form . gram isnt a defender he plays up back but wouldnt know how to Stop a player if his life depended on it .. Gilbo is average and couldnt cope with being the only hope down back . Sam Fisher is not going to be able to do it on his own .. and the rest are either injury prone or suffer inconsistant form .. Carrol is a big body , has experiance being the only hope in defence . theres a bit upside for very little cost in picking up Carrol

it makes sense

[Saints43]

some one who gets it !!!

I think everybody thinks defensive (esp. full back) depth is a good idea.

It's a matter of wether they rate Carroll as good enough to provide that depth.

[Pilgram]

every umpire will want to be the first to penalise him.

[vacuous space]

Consider this scenario...

Max goes down, and Goose isn't 100%. Dempster already out.

Ok, so we bring in a kid or 2. No experience.

Kiss the season good bye.

Even with Max and Goose out, we can play Fisher and Blake at the key posts and easily survive. It's not like we don't have any other options before we throw a kid to the wolves. I know I won't be tearing up my membership should Max and Goose go down, Carroll or no Carroll.

[Red]

The only reason we would look at Caroll is because we lack another key

defender. We have used Fisher and Goddard in those roles on occasion but

that always takes away from our run and options. You need that player with

extra height. Remember the last quarter against Geelong where Tommy

Hawkins basically stood in the square and took a couple of marks because

we had no one big enough to compete with him.

[Con Gorozidis]

In all honestly this would not only be a negative move in the development of our juniors, but also a sly on our already stable defensive crop of Max, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Jason Blake and Matt Maguire.

i have some sympathy for this idea. clearly we need to focus on youth development after IGNORING it for the lat 5 years. just dont think our "stable" defensive crop is that "stable". Goose hasnt played in 2 years (I guess thats kind of stable) and his future is still highly uncertain. Blake had a great 08 so hats off to him for improving. Gilbo had a great 07 and a very very stinky 08 (although I thought he improved in the finals). Gilbo and Raph at a similar spot. Shown glimpses and need to step up in 09 but are not exactly rock solid... The only guy we can rely on is Fisher.

I think most people have discussed Carrol in the following terms

Depth/Back up player
pretty durable and tough.
will get at least 30 games from him in the next 2 years
would be cheap in salary cap terms (melbourne paying half his contract)
ONLY worth taking very very late or in Pre-season so would not be taken infront of a kid.

So although i agree youth development is the priority - most people on the forum think we can take Carrol without giving anything up. In that case i reckon its not a bad option. Noone is suggesting we take him instead of pick 47 or anything silly.

[vacuous space]

We have used Fisher and Goddard in those roles on occasion but that always takes away from our run and options.

Goddard played as a full-time mid in finals, so I wouldn't expect him to play much defence in 09. Even still, if we have Fisher and Blake playing on the talls, then we still have a bunch of guys who can play on the smalls, run and provide rebound. Jason Gram, Raph Clarke, Sam Gilbert, Farren Ray and Stephen Baker amongst others.

[Go Sainters Go]

To consider Carrol as a back up backman is a good move by the Club.

As a back up, he will play seconds football at Sandy next year where he has played a fairbit of footy over recent years.

The challenge for him will be to perform well at Sandy next year, a far greater challenge than he's had at the Dees.

[Red]

Blake and Fisher aren't big enough to play on the tall guys and I would

rather have Fisher delivering the ball forward than any of those guys.

Yes they can run but Gilbert, Baker, Ray and Raph are not the best kicks of

a football.

[vacuous space]

just dont think our "stable" defensive crop is that "stable".

I thought our back six was solidified throughout the finals series.

FB: R. Clarke - Hudghton - Gilbert
HB: Gram - Blake - S. Fisher

They're all reasonably tall and mobile and can cover for each other if one takes off. We've got Ray and Baker as spare smalls and Maguire and Gwilt as spare talls. X has played back there before and Jones showed some proficiency as a small tagger. We have a lot more talent and depth down back than we do up forward. At key forward we have McEvoy and Allen if Kosi or Roo goes down.

[Mooksy]

This subject line is possibly the most ridiculous I have seen yet!

[sunsaint]

.... on N Carroll
* Very Workmanlike
* Not Creative
* Negative Mindset
* Average Skills
* No Pace
snip

funny ...if you replace * No pace with
* has a bit of mongrel aggression
then you have the ideal backman.

I think Carroll would be a good bottom end draft pickup. He will add depth, gives us options to free up the "creative" backmen, and wont cost us much in terms of draft or money. I have no problems with the club checking him out, and if Zac wanted to play with the saints he would be down there now.