A stupid hypothetical team - looks good on paper - i think

[jackal]

With potentially Baker, Ball, X.Clarke, Ray and Cousins added to the mids
Maguire and Carroll to the backs...and obviously all gelling,playing like guns etc. lol

B. R. Clarke Maxi Baker
HB. Goddard Carroll S.Fisher
W. Ray Cousins Dal Santo
HF. Gilbert Reiwoldt Maguire
F. Milne Kosi Schneider
C. King Ball Hayes
I/C. Montagna X.Clarke Gram Blake

I still think we lack a quality half forward ( I think Gilbert may be a better option here than down back) and have also moved Maguire up forward as another marking option.
Think we have an awesome midfield with the inclusions of Ball, Cousins and Ray but think that we can't have 3 softies (Gram, Clarke, Monty and Dal on at the same time). maybe 2 max or if the game opens up a third runner.

Don't like Baker in a back pocket but with no Dempster maybe the best option. I think that maybe Carroll and Maxi not in the same lineup.

If we are honestly going to win a flag we need to address
1) A soft but sharp midfield - Cousins and Ball will help here and actually heaps...miles ahead of McQualter, Eddy and Armitage at this stage, C.Jones is stiff to miss out and I would pick him round one if fit and training well as a reward for a supurb effort last year.

2) Struggle against a quality small forward. Gilbert got towelled up by M.Williams and S.Johnson in the finals in the two most damaging miss matches of our finals. Maxi can play this role but would need either Maguire or Carroll holding down a key defensive post.

3)One dimensional forward line, a) need better ball coming in, see Ball and Cousins.
b)A 3rd tall who can mark on the lead but also provides defensive pressure. I see Gilbert as being the obvious choice here as he ticks both boxes and knows where the goals are. With good ball coming in, a perceived lack of footy smarts will mean naught, they will hit him on the tit!
Matt Maguire as an alternative here if his body is up to it as he does go hard but may be a bit lumbering for the modern game..shouldn't be though.

All in all we could actually have addressed a couple of clear deficiencies by recruiying both Carroll and Cousins. Can still pick up a good youngster and 6 or so kids with later picks/rookies.

Sounds good in theory!

[SAINT JUMP]

dont know if rays a walk into our 22. has to proves his worth as far as im concern.

[Iceman234]

Can't find a spot for R. Harvey in there???

OMG he's gone.

Auuughhh he's gone....................



It still hurts...

[Iceman234]

And for the men's health month of Movember can we possibly see a centreline of

X-RAY-BALL

Okay enough from me, carry on, sorry.

[TassieJones]

Would look a lot better without Carrol. He would make a disgraceful CHB for one, if he has to play it should be deep inside 50 on a 3rd tall. Secondly, he is a terrible player, especially to have in the spine. Better options in key defence:
Sam Fisher
Max Hudghton
Jason Blake
Goose Maguire
Brendan Goddard
Sam Gilbert
Raph Clarke
Gwilt and him maybe even, although I'd take Gwilt for his attacking play

If you think of a back 6 as who they take:
B: [Small Forward] [Full Forward] [3rd Tall]
HB: [HFF/No one] [CHF] [HFF/No one]

Full Forward = Max
2nd and 3rd talls = Fisher, Blake/Goose (depending on how his return goes)
Small forward = Baker, we did alright with our tagging in 08 so I think we can afford to play him down there
HFF = Gram, Gilbert/Raph

As such I see our back 6 as, presuming Goose's recover goes well
B: Baker Hudghton Maguire
HB: Gram S. Fisher Gilbert

With Blake on the bench able to go on and release Bakes/Gram to the midfield, ditto Raph.

[mad saint guy]

If we get Cousins I think we're a decent chance at a top 4 spot. If not then I can't see us having any real say in September. Carroll would not make any difference in 2009, but the masses of useless old hacks we recruit will hurt us big time in the coming years.

B: Blake, Hudghton, R.Clarke
HB: Ray, Gilbert, S.Fisher
C: Gram, Hayes, Dal Santo
HF: Cousins, Riewoldt, Schneider
F: Allen, Koschitzke, Milne

Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Armitage, Baker, X.Clarke, Montagna

Emg: M.Gardiner, Geary, Gwilt

[Saints Premiers 2008]

If we get Cousins I think we're a decent chance at a top 4 spot. If not then I can't see us having any real say in September. Carroll would not make any difference in 2009, but the masses of useless old hacks we recruit will hurt us big time in the coming years.

B: Blake, Hudghton, R.Clarke
HB: Ray, Gilbert, S.Fisher
C: Gram, Hayes, Dal Santo
HF: Cousins, Riewoldt, Schneider
F: Allen, Koschitzke, Milne

Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Armitage, Baker, X.Clarke, Montagna

Emg: M.Gardiner, Geary, Gwilt

old hacks like???

we have needed ruckman and third talls...we drafted them from other avenues due to us having talent around the ground to really challenge, although we were not a chance in hell of winning the flag, three finals suggests that something is going ok, not great though otherwise it would have been four

king and gardiner are needed as currently we have no ruckman capable of stepping in to fill their boots, they are not ready due to flaws in previous list management techniques...there is no 25 year old first choice ruckman that really should have accompanied the top tier of 10-12 players that were drafted imbetween 2000-2004-ish

you are on the money stating that carroll is not going to make an iota of difference to our season however stating that our drafting of old hacks is going to hurt...i pose the question who else have i missed??

and no not matthew clarke either...he wouldnt have been drafted if king was available one year earlier

[groupie1]

From the team that played for us in the finals this year, soft spots were 8:
Gwilt, R Clarke, C Jones, Eddy, Fiora, Armitage, McQualter.

We also lost Harvey, meaning 9.

Cousins, Ray, Ball, Baker add guts and pacde to the midfield - replace Harvey, Fiora, McQualter, Eddy.

R Clarke to continue improving
Armitage hopefully to do the same
C Jones and Gwilt I like, but either they improve or we're looking at Gardiner, X, and Goose to come in; hopefully with some pressure from McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Allen.

Looks good - all soft spots potentially removed from the 22, with a few decent emergencies.

We still have an issue of not enough pressure from the younger players.

[Animal Enclosure]

We still have an issue of not enough pressure from the younger players.

An excellent point Groupie. That's why it will be very important that our 1st round pick this year can at least out pressure on the incumbents for a spot in the 22.

We have 6 spots to fill. We must have 5 kids plus Cousins (and rookies) to really rejuvenate the club.

Along with Armo, McEvoy, Allen, Steven, Connors, Eddy, Geary, etc we will have over a 1/4 of the list under 20 years of age.

[SAINT JUMP]

putting a lot of faith in ray. we need some tough players, dont think rays the answer. remember wb didnt want him.

[Saintersss]

^ Actually the Bulldogs wanted him to stay, it was Ray who wanted to leave...

[SAINT JUMP]

because he didnt get a run the finals. why couldnt he make the wb 22 for the finals.

[ausfatcat]

If carrols playing CHB we are in a lot of trouble, he was getting towled up in the VFL this year by the likes of Ackland....

[Sobraz]

From the team that played for us in the finals this year, soft spots were 8:
Gwilt, R Clarke, C Jones, Eddy, Fiora, Armitage, McQualter.

R Clarke to continue improving
Looks good - all soft spots potentially removed from the 22, with a few decent emergencies.

We still have an issue of not enough pressure from the younger players.

IMO Raph was our best player in the final series.. He really stood up and cemented his spot as a starting 18 nxt year... No way was he a 'soft spot' from the finals team....

Agree with your other changes tho... Would like more output from Armo this year, and Steven and Allen to come through..

[SAINT JUMP]

wouldnt call eddy or jones soft. both put their bodies on the line.

[ausfatcat]

wouldnt call eddy or jones soft. both put their bodies on the line.

I think he was refering to the spots not being solid week in week out selections not that they play soft.

[ace]

If that opposition small forward can mark overhead putting Bakes in the back pocket on him is suicidal.

The opposition will isolate him, clear out the 50 and kick it high to the square.

Bakes is the best tagger in the game but he has two weaknesses he can't mark overhead or spoil a mark.


I remember the same problem prevented Gilbert McAdam becoming a super star.

He might be out of favour with Ross Lyon but Leigh Fisher is the best we have for that job until Dempster is fully recovered.

Maybe that is why Leigh Fisher is still on the list.

[groupie1]

Thanks ausfatcat - you're correct in how i meant the word 'soft.'

And I do agree with the writer before that its harsh on Raph Clarke to be counted among them - although remember I replaced him with himself improved.

I'm a big R Clarke fan, and I think he could be anything. But we have to admit his decision making is poor (unless he is directed to play instinctively and RUN), his disposal skills need improvement, and... he wouldn't have made Geelong or Hawthorn line-ups, which is how we should be judging it - would this guy get into Geel or Hawthorn should be the question. When for 23-25 players that answer is YES, then we can be confident of pushing seriously for a premiership.