Step Up Or Climb Down

[ace]

St Kilda's 22 most experienced players are now
Hudghton
King
Hayes
Milne
Riewoldt
Baker
Dal Santo
Gardiner
Blake
Ball
Koschitzke
Schneider
Goddard
X Clarke
Maguire
Montagna
S Fisher
Gram
Dempster
L Fisher
Ray
R Clarke

The next most experienced player is Glibert. At 39 games he is still a kid learning his craft.
These players have even less experience.
McQualter
Gwilt
Jones
Begley
Armitage
Eddy
Geary
Allen
McEvoy

The following have never played a senior game (7)
Connors
Stevens
Lynch
Stanley
Heyne
Smith
Cahill

Plus rookies who have never played a senior game (9)
Miles
Haretuku
McGrath
Plus 6 others to be named

Any way you look at this list there is no provision for experienced backup.
When ever an experienced player goes down an inexperienced player has to step up.
And if they don't step up, the club will quickly climb down the ladder.

[ctqs]

We need a good run with injury for a shot at the flag, but I suppose that goes for any team. It does highlight, though, how some teams can still push for a finals spot with a few injuries, while others can struggle.

[St Fidelius]

We might have the option of taking 6 rookies, but will we take 6???

Just a question

[Legendary]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

[barneyboyz]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

Mate, I could not have said it better!!

the problem with us Saints is, we have only the one (1) flag, so supporters (me too) sometimes are a bit nervy; I think I see what the club was doing today and I am very happy

for those that haven't already done so (and even if you have), check out the highlights package for young Tom Lynch and tell me if that's not what we are so desperately wanting. No? have another look, and another, shyt hot

thankyou St Kilda

[Batnoe]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

Mate, I could not have said it better!!

the problem with us Saints is, we have only the one (1) flag, so supporters (me too) sometimes are a bit nervy; I think I see what the club was doing today and I am very happy

for those that haven't already done so (and even if you have), check out the highlights package for young Tom Lynch and tell me if that's not what we are so desperately wanting. No? have another look, and another, shyt hot

thankyou St Kilda

have you got the stats on all teams on their ages?

we dont have much depth, but it is exactly what we had to do to play the kids

good coaching and conditioning, we may climb down the ladder but it means we will be better for it in 4 or 5 years... it is a slight mini rebuild without dropping out of the 8

[barneyboyz]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

Mate, I could not have said it better!!

the problem with us Saints is, we have only the one (1) flag, so supporters (me too) sometimes are a bit nervy; I think I see what the club was doing today and I am very happy

for those that haven't already done so (and even if you have), check out the highlights package for young Tom Lynch and tell me if that's not what we are so desperately wanting. No? have another look, and another, shyt hot

thankyou St Kilda

have you got the stats on all teams on their ages?

we dont have much depth, but it is exactly what we had to do to play the kids

good coaching and conditioning, we may climb down the ladder but it means we will be better for it in 4 or 5 years... it is a slight mini rebuild without dropping out of the 8

Sorry Batnoe, I logged off for a while, I aren't much of a stats man.

I think up until last week we might have gone in a slightly different direction (plenty of discussion on that!!), but other teams have the ability to draft reddy made players, something we have had limited success with for a while and which is also something we require now! I think Tom might play next year and have some impact, just my thoughts

I also agree on your theory of a mini re-build and it is interesting to note that, had we continuosly topped up with quality kids (drafting or trading)3 -4 years back, we wouldn't have been talking of Ben, or Nathan.

Before people jump on me, I think we held onto some ordinary players over this period

[RBnW]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

Mate, I could not have said it better!!

the problem with us Saints is, we have only the one (1) flag, so supporters (me too) sometimes are a bit nervy; I think I see what the club was doing today and I am very happy

for those that haven't already done so (and even if you have), check out the highlights package for young Tom Lynch and tell me if that's not what we are so desperately wanting. No? have another look, and another, shyt hot

thankyou St Kilda

A positive post with some details....... you will get banned for that....
this is a good result today and we do now have a young list with more talent and options...... Rooie is still just 25 as are most of our good players......Eddy, Geary, McEvoy and Stevens added to this group will set us up for the next 5 years at least.......We have every reason to be very pleased with where we are heading....

[Batnoe]

The flipside is we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL with one of the biggest number of <23 players of any team.

So if a few of the kids turn out ok then the club's success can be continued for many years to come.


Some people only see the negative.

Mate, I could not have said it better!!

the problem with us Saints is, we have only the one (1) flag, so supporters (me too) sometimes are a bit nervy; I think I see what the club was doing today and I am very happy

for those that haven't already done so (and even if you have), check out the highlights package for young Tom Lynch and tell me if that's not what we are so desperately wanting. No? have another look, and another, shyt hot

thankyou St Kilda

have you got the stats on all teams on their ages?

we dont have much depth, but it is exactly what we had to do to play the kids

good coaching and conditioning, we may climb down the ladder but it means we will be better for it in 4 or 5 years... it is a slight mini rebuild without dropping out of the 8

Sorry Batnoe, I logged off for a while, I aren't much of a stats man.

I think up until last week we might have gone in a slightly different direction (plenty of discussion on that!!), but other teams have the ability to draft reddy made players, something we have had limited success with for a while and which is also something we require now! I think Tom might play next year and have some impact, just my thoughts

I also agree on your theory of a mini re-build and it is interesting to note that, had we continuosly topped up with quality kids (drafting or trading)3 -4 years back, we wouldn't have been talking of Ben, or Nathan.

Before people jump on me, I think we held onto some ordinary players over this period

our drafting and trading GT days were horrible, we worked with our list without much change to it, we wouldnt be in this position if some of those picks worked out

on the scrapheap, Watts, Brooks, Ackland, McGough plus others, we did not use our head at all and that is why we lack depth today, we needed to have the draft and trade we did since Ross has been in charge, people may not like his coaching but his idea about long term success definitely beats GT's

Since Ross has been there, he has gotten rid of our s***..... and brought to the club at least 15 kids under 23 years

Also getting rid of players that wont give us anything, all while keeping our stars so he must have the respect of the playing list... if you pick a fast team even his game plan will look cool and exciting.. the plan works

[Eastern]

We might have the option of taking 6 rookies, but will we take 6???

Just a question

It will all come down to $$$$$$$$$$$ !!

[Batnoe]

will we take 6? can we take 6?

i thought we had McGrath and Kahn already there, we cant have 8 overall can we?

I think we will take at least 3, with some Irish dudes as well

[ace]

[quote="Batnoe"]will we take 6? can we take 6?

i thought we had McGrath and Kahn already there, we cant have 8 overall can we?

I think we will take at least 3, with some Irish dudes as well[/quote]

My understanding is that we can have 6 conventional rookies plus 3 special rookies - former NSW scholarship and international (including Irish) rookies.

If I am right we can take 5 normal rookies plus retain Luke Miles and 1 international rookie, upgrade Blake McGrath to rookie and retain Khan Haretuku.
That gives us a total of 9 rookies.
Essendon recently nominated an Irish as an international rookie.

Unfortunately the only reference I can find is the Collective Bargaining Agreement - Schedule C which refers to the special places as Scholarship
List or International Scholarship Players and then to Player Rules 21.1.2
G:\Football Operations\CBA 2007-2011 - FINAL.doc

Seems like one needs access to the Football Operations computer! Adrian Anderson makes up the rules and does not want us to be able to read them lest we tell him he is an idiot.

[ace]

I have found the rules for rookies on page 342 of AFL Record Season Guide 2008 - [b]Published early in 2008 so about 10 months out of date.[/b]

It confirms must have 4 rookies
Can have maximum of 6 rookies
Also can have up to 3 extra rookies if they were former scholarship players list players, former international scholarship list players.

Ireland and Australia are both EXCLUDED from international scholarship list players.
I don't think we have had an international scholarship player.

[b]That would imply that we can only fill 8 of the possible 9 rookies

We therefore can expect to draft 5 new rookies. plus Miles, Haretuku, McGrath[/b]

We can sign up 2 kids to NSW/ACT scholarships per year for a maximum of 6 at any time.

[ace]

Ah Ha - Irish rule

"'International Players" are NOT Australian but CAN be Irish.

"International scholarship list players" can NOT be Australian OR Irish

International players including Irish players can be pre-selected = signed up before the rookie draft.
Seems to be no limit other than the overall rookie limit.
But they don't count as scholarship players so they count against the maximum of 6 rookies NOT against the extra 3 former scholarship players.


Colm Begley could make other Irish players more comfortable with and likely to sign with St Kilda, a bit like the way indigenous players tend to club together.

[linz]

We might have the option of taking 6 rookies, but will we take 6???

Just a question

It will all come down to $$$$$$$$$$$ !!

EXACTLY. ALWAYS DOES & ALWAYS WILL.
JUST ASK CARLSCUM.

[St Fidelius]

We might have the option of taking 6 rookies, but will we take 6???

Just a question

It will all come down to $$$$$$$$$$$ !!

exactly mate, it's that some on here take it as a given that we are going to select 6 rookies...

I would somehow doubt that

[bobmurray]

Don't guess how many rookies we CAN take,the AFL's site will tell you and there are threads that have the info stickied...anyway for those who read threads and then inquire about info they have read,here is StKilda's list prior to the draft....as well as allowable selections in the National Draft and the Rookie draft....

ST KILDA
1. Allen, Jarryd
2. Armitage, David
3. Baker, Steven
4. Ball, Luke
5. Blake, Jason
6. Clarke, Raphael
7. Clarke, Xavier
8. Connors, Eljay
9. Dal Santo, Nick
10. Dempster, Sean
11. Eddy, Robert
12. Fisher, Leigh
13. Fisher, Sam
14. Gardiner, Michael
15. Geary, Jarryn
16. Gilbert, Sam
17. Goddard, Brendon
18. Gram, Jason
19. Gwilt, James
20. Hayes, Lenny
21. Hudghton, Max (veteran – outside list)
22. Jones, Clinton
23. King, Steven
24. Koschitzke, Justin
25. Maguire, Matt
26. McEvoy, Ben
27. McQualter, Andrew
28. Milne, Stephen
29. Montagna, Leigh
30. Ray, Farren
31. Riewoldt, Nick
32. Schneider, Adam
33. Steven, Jack
34.
35.
36.
37.
38.
39.
Rookie List
1. Haretuku, Khan
2. McGrath, Blake
3. Miles, Luke
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

Additions:
Father-Son selection: –
Exchange period – received: Farren Ray (Western Bulldogs)
Rookie elevation: Robert Eddy, Andrew McQualter
Scholarship elevation: Blake McGrath (Pennant Hills)
NAB AFL Draft:
International rookie selection:
Non-registered for three years selection:
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft:
NAB AFL Rookie Draft:

Deletions:
Retired: Fraser Gehrig, Robert Harvey (veteran – inside list)
Exchange period – traded: –
Delisted: Shane Birss, Matthew Ferguson, Aaron Fiora, Charlie Gardiner, Michael Rix, Jayden Attard (rookie), Glenn Chivers (rookie), Luke van Rheenen (rookie)

[ace]

[quote="bobmurray"]Don't guess how many rookies we CAN take,the AFL's site will tell you and there are threads that have the info stickied...anyway for those who read threads and then inquire about info they have read,here is StKilda's list prior to the draft....as well as allowable selections in the National Draft and the Rookie draft....

ST KILDA
1. Allen, Jarryd
2. Armitage, David
3. Baker, Steven
4. Ball, Luke
5. Blake, Jason
6. Clarke, Raphael
7. Clarke, Xavier
8. Connors, Eljay
9. Dal Santo, Nick
10. Dempster, Sean
11. Eddy, Robert
12. Fisher, Leigh
13. Fisher, Sam
14. Gardiner, Michael
15. Geary, Jarryn
16. Gilbert, Sam
17. Goddard, Brendon
18. Gram, Jason
19. Gwilt, James
20. Hayes, Lenny
21. Hudghton, Max (veteran – outside list)
22. Jones, Clinton
23. King, Steven
24. Koschitzke, Justin
25. Maguire, Matt
26. McEvoy, Ben
27. McQualter, Andrew
28. Milne, Stephen
29. Montagna, Leigh
30. Ray, Farren
31. Riewoldt, Nick
32. Schneider, Adam
33. Steven, Jack
34.
35.
36.
37.
38.
39.
Rookie List
1. Haretuku, Khan
2. McGrath, Blake
3. Miles, Luke
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

Additions:
Father-Son selection: –
Exchange period – received: Farren Ray (Western Bulldogs)
Rookie elevation: Robert Eddy, Andrew McQualter
Scholarship elevation: Blake McGrath (Pennant Hills)
NAB AFL Draft:
International rookie selection:
Non-registered for three years selection:
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft:
NAB AFL Rookie Draft:

Deletions:
Retired: Fraser Gehrig, Robert Harvey (veteran – inside list)
Exchange period – traded: –
Delisted: Shane Birss, Matthew Ferguson, Aaron Fiora, Charlie Gardiner, Michael Rix, Jayden Attard (rookie), Glenn Chivers (rookie), Luke van Rheenen (rookie)[/quote]


That list implies that St Kilda can add a further 6 rookies to the existing 3.
However 3 of the total of 9 need to be either former NSW/ACT scholarship players or international (not Australain or Irish) scholarship players.

Haretuku and McGrath are former NSW scholarship players but St Kilda does not have any more NSW/ACT scholarship players or International scholarship players who are old enough.

After the main draft St Kilda has 38 players on its primary list and Hudghton on the veteran list for a total of 39
The veteran reduces the maximum number of rookies by 1


SCHEDULE C
List Sizes 2007/2011

MINIMUM
Primary List Size 38 (including Veterans on
Veterans List)
Rookies 4
TOTAL 42

MAXIMUM
Primary List Size 38
None on Veterans List/Nominated Rookie
Rookies 6
TOTAL 44

[b]Primary List Size 38
1 on Veterans List or 1 Nominated Rookie
Rookies 5
TOTAL 44[/b]

Primary List Size 38
2 on Veterans List or 2 Nominated Rookies or 1 of each
Rookies 4
TOTAL 44

*Cannot have more than 6 rookies except as set out under Player Rule 21.1.2 where all Clubs may have up to 9 Rookies which would include 3 Scholarship List or International Scholarship Players or in the case of Sydney and Brisbane could also include 3 or more Rookies domiciled in the Sydney and Brisbane metropolitan areas respectively.


Hence St Kilda will only be able to add a further 4 rookies

At the draft St Kilda will then be able to participate in rounds 1 through to 4.
In round 5 they will call Blake McGrath as a formality of his promotion from a NSW scholarship to a rookie.

[b]So 4 more choices and rookie No 8 & No 9 to remain vacant.[/b]