![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
Jason Blake, whether you like it or not, is in our starting 18 players and has been for the last 2-3 seasons.
He's going to be in the side.
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speed is over-rated...our niche is getting the pill in and under and if not tackling from our main tacklersjoffaboy wrote:Slow as a wet weekthe_D_train wrote:this team is a bit different but it just clicks in my mind obviously question marks over Maguire and Baker aswell as Lynch and Dempster will be out for a while but if everyone was healthy next year this would be the team i would pick.
B: S Gilbert - M Hudghton – S Baker
HB: S Dempster - M Maguire - S Fisher
C: C Begley - L Hayes - J Gram
HF: N Dal Santo - N Riewoldt - L Montagna
F: S Milne - R Clarke - J Koschitzke
Foll: S King - B Goddard - L Ball
Inter : D Armitage - J Steven - T Lynch - F Ray
What does everyone think ?
Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:speed is over-rated...our niche is getting the pill in and under and if not tackling from our main tacklersjoffaboy wrote:Slow as a wet weekthe_D_train wrote:this team is a bit different but it just clicks in my mind obviously question marks over Maguire and Baker aswell as Lynch and Dempster will be out for a while but if everyone was healthy next year this would be the team i would pick.
B: S Gilbert - M Hudghton – S Baker
HB: S Dempster - M Maguire - S Fisher
C: C Begley - L Hayes - J Gram
HF: N Dal Santo - N Riewoldt - L Montagna
F: S Milne - R Clarke - J Koschitzke
Foll: S King - B Goddard - L Ball
Inter : D Armitage - J Steven - T Lynch - F Ray
What does everyone think ?
if we aren't a speedy side why try and play that way??? if we try and move it on at all costs we turn it over...supporters get cranky despite always wanting the 'play on at all costs' and begin to point their fingers at something/someone else...
to me begley and ray are runners...so is gram...so is joey...thats 4...we want to be a team of unaccountable runners now??? so who takes brown or franklin??? begley, gram and montagna who will all get slaughtered at the same time
perspective please
we turn the ball over through fumbles due to our players not having the greatest of skills and or confidenceWayneJudson42 wrote:Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:speed is over-rated...our niche is getting the pill in and under and if not tackling from our main tacklersjoffaboy wrote:Slow as a wet weekthe_D_train wrote:this team is a bit different but it just clicks in my mind obviously question marks over Maguire and Baker aswell as Lynch and Dempster will be out for a while but if everyone was healthy next year this would be the team i would pick.
B: S Gilbert - M Hudghton – S Baker
HB: S Dempster - M Maguire - S Fisher
C: C Begley - L Hayes - J Gram
HF: N Dal Santo - N Riewoldt - L Montagna
F: S Milne - R Clarke - J Koschitzke
Foll: S King - B Goddard - L Ball
Inter : D Armitage - J Steven - T Lynch - F Ray
What does everyone think ?
if we aren't a speedy side why try and play that way??? if we try and move it on at all costs we turn it over...supporters get cranky despite always wanting the 'play on at all costs' and begin to point their fingers at something/someone else...
to me begley and ray are runners...so is gram...so is joey...thats 4...we want to be a team of unaccountable runners now??? so who takes brown or franklin??? begley, gram and montagna who will all get slaughtered at the same time
perspective please
Disagree on this. Extra speed allows you to create pressure on the opp'n players. Nothing sh1tted me more this year than watching our players fumble and turn over becoz of the pressure applied by fast opp'n players closing in quickly.
The flip side is trying to catch those buggers...
Quick ball movement and leg speed are the keys to getting the ball in quickly to our forwards. IMOO
There's a case for both arguments.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:we turn the ball over through fumbles due to our players not having the greatest of skills and or confidenceWayneJudson42 wrote:Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:speed is over-rated...our niche is getting the pill in and under and if not tackling from our main tacklersjoffaboy wrote:Slow as a wet weekthe_D_train wrote:this team is a bit different but it just clicks in my mind obviously question marks over Maguire and Baker aswell as Lynch and Dempster will be out for a while but if everyone was healthy next year this would be the team i would pick.
B: S Gilbert - M Hudghton – S Baker
HB: S Dempster - M Maguire - S Fisher
C: C Begley - L Hayes - J Gram
HF: N Dal Santo - N Riewoldt - L Montagna
F: S Milne - R Clarke - J Koschitzke
Foll: S King - B Goddard - L Ball
Inter : D Armitage - J Steven - T Lynch - F Ray
What does everyone think ?
if we aren't a speedy side why try and play that way??? if we try and move it on at all costs we turn it over...supporters get cranky despite always wanting the 'play on at all costs' and begin to point their fingers at something/someone else...
to me begley and ray are runners...so is gram...so is joey...thats 4...we want to be a team of unaccountable runners now??? so who takes brown or franklin??? begley, gram and montagna who will all get slaughtered at the same time
perspective please
Disagree on this. Extra speed allows you to create pressure on the opp'n players. Nothing sh1tted me more this year than watching our players fumble and turn over becoz of the pressure applied by fast opp'n players closing in quickly.
The flip side is trying to catch those buggers...
Quick ball movement and leg speed are the keys to getting the ball in quickly to our forwards. IMOO
the younger players have pretty poor skills, they struggle to hit targets and kick goals...its a glaring weakness...opposition teams in the future would be more than happy to let an eddy or jones at the pill knowing they are going to more than likely stuff it up
im more than happy to play the hit up style that we tend to play...use the forwards and wait for a prime opportunity...what ive noticed is that when do it it well, we obviously score and then our play becomes quicker and more confident there
partially this is about who plays where...who is positioned where and who can get the ball frequently to set play up most often
truth is we want goddard, gram and s.fish with the pill...not beause of their speed...but the confidence they bring with the pill and the ability to bring our forwards and others into the game
kind of rambled on here...not entirely sure where this all goes
I'd be concerned if Max lined up in the NAB cup except for our last pre season game. At his age and given his soft tissue injuries he's not worth the risk in pre-season. Same goes with Kingy.saintbob wrote:Rnd 1 NAB CUP
B :Gilbert, Houghton, R. Clarke
HB: S.Fisher, Kosi, Ray
C: Gram, Ball, Goddard
HF:Montagna, Roo, Schiender
F: Milne, McGuire, Blake
R: King, Hayes, Dal
Int: Jones, X. Clarke, Steven, Baker, Lynch, Heyne, McEvoy and Eddy
I wouldn't expect any of the new kids to jump straight in. If they look ready to go in the NAB cup, great. It shouldn't be the expectation though. Guys like Armo, Eddy and Jones have experience now. Guys like Geary and Steven would be ahead of the new kids. I'm guessing Gwilt and McQualter would get games ahead of the new guys. If Baker, Xavier Clarke and Maguire can get back to full fitness that makes it even harder for the kids to get games.SAINT JUMP wrote:you guys get hyped up over new players every year. lets wait and have a look at the nab cup first.
i would also hope jack steven gets a go b4 them aswellvacuous space wrote:I wouldn't expect any of the new kids to jump straight in. If they look ready to go in the NAB cup, great. It shouldn't be the expectation though. Guys like Armo, Eddy and Jones have experience now. Guys like Geary and Steven would be ahead of the new kids. I'm guessing Gwilt and McQualter would get games ahead of the new guys. If Baker, Xavier Clarke and Maguire can get back to full fitness that makes it even harder for the kids to get games.SAINT JUMP wrote:you guys get hyped up over new players every year. lets wait and have a look at the nab cup first.
There's too many people that just write off players we already have. Most kids don't walk straight into the AFL, especially on good teams. Anybody hoping for a Selwood or Rioli type impact from these guys in their first year is setting themselves up for a major disappointment. This draft wasn't to secure immediate help. A handful of games would be a reasonable return from these kids.
What is this obsession with speed?? Leg speed counts little - it's the ability to move the ball quickly that counts. Leg speed is only crucial if you run with the ball.borderbarry wrote:SAlow Slow Slow. We picked these new players to add speed. This team is slow.
You are joking about leg speed, arent you?FortiusQuoFidelius wrote:What is this obsession with speed?? Leg speed counts little - it's the ability to move the ball quickly that counts. Leg speed is only crucial if you run with the ball.borderbarry wrote:SAlow Slow Slow. We picked these new players to add speed. This team is slow.
Our players should be skillful enough that they can dispose of the ball quickly and accurately so leg speed doesnt matter nearly as much.
Good post...Solar wrote:a couple of things
speed means little if
1. you can't get the ball
2. you can't dispose of it
(see jones for starters...)
Getting the hard ball, protecting the ball carrier and moving the ball around with speed and precision will be what takes us the next step. Balls hands, BJ's kicking, and our second stringers bulking up and sheparding the skillful players are a starting point. What we are missing are fit skilled inside players and gut running outside carriers. A fit ball and a more developed ray are a start....
On the NAB cup team, this will be very interesting because there are spots up for grabs.
Would like to see roo be given a wing on ball position and try to give leadership further up the field. This gives kosi, big mac and perhaps lynch room to play down forward without the blonde superstar around. Perhaps this is one problem with our second string forwards, they don't actually back themselves and the midfield don't either. Do you think gwilt would demand the ball when his captain is the other option... would you go for this back up when the key forward is running at you. We need to take this out of the calculation until we have a functioning forward line. Then pop him back there as the cream....
So anyway we start at the back,
Thankfully lyon relised late in the season that gilbert is a KP back and not a tall back pocket. He has very good closing speed, improved his marking and spoiling late and was up with raph as our best players in the final against the pies. So he takes FB and the big forward. There are almost no BIG forwards these days and talls like franklin lead hard and use their skills.
Place an experienced Blake with him as the other KP back. Look he will only be a flanker come the real season but in the NAB cup he gives stability to a developing backline. Goose gets a run along with raph in the third tall come flanker role. This is to push across in front of the leading forwards and rebound. Good easy job for goose to come back in with. Add belgely and ray into the mix.
The only position we are missing is the back pocket and I would look to develop jones in that position. Did the job late against the bombers, has speed, descipline and the guts to put himself on the line.
FB: Jones gilbert begley
HB raph blake goose
The midfield will include a fit ball, hayes and dal. BJ and gram add some add thrust. Steven, armo and geary need to be given time to develop in this midfield also. Don't be suprised if we rest kingy from this stuff and use gards and the younger rucks. with extra space on the bench we could go with stanley, mac and gards.
c: gram BJ ray
R: Gardiner ball steven
The forward line also needs some work. With allen out we need to look and new options
HF: Roo Kosi schneider/chips
FF milne Mac lynch/cahill/hynds
roo works onto a wing, which allows gram and BJ are able to slide forward without losing our numbers behind the ball. Thus the two talls of kosi with one of mac or chips. The draftees in lynch/cahill/hynds have a chance to work a pocket flank with schneider who needs some midfield time for fitness reasons.
Chips forward? Our best backman going forward? WTF... well it works on two levels. He relies on the reading of play and good ball use. I back the likes of raph/begley to do this is he stead and allows chips to do his stuff forward. The key to a forward is POSITION POSITION POSITION. They have to read where the ball will be heading and not only get to the prime marking spot but do this a split second before the backman. Chips has a natural ability to read the play and mark the ball. He is usually a third player in down back, reading it before the forward and cutting off attacks. This would be handy down forward and could score us 40-80 goals.
With roo out on a wing, kosi has the chance to leadup to the ball hard and then double back. This is where he is at him most devasting. Tall defenders don't have the agility to go with him when he does this. Keeping him too close to goal robs him of this, but it relies on him getting his knee right and getting to the fitness level required to play CHF.
Chuck some exciting new draftees, a very tall ruck from NSW and we have the chance to develop a whole new looking side.
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
not bad. quite like that.LTN16: I think the Round 1 team will look something like this:
ST KILDA
B: Gilbert, Hudghton, Baker
HB: S.Fisher, Maguire, R.Clarke
C: Montagna, Hayes, Gram
HF: Schneider, Koschitzke, Dal Santo
F: Milne, Riewoldt, Armitage
Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Jones, M.Gardiner, Ray, X.Clarke
Emg: Blake, Steven, L.Fisher
So umm.. what's Begley doing then?LTN16 wrote:I think the Round 1 team will look something like this:
ST KILDA
B: Gilbert, Hudghton, Baker
HB: S.Fisher, Maguire, R.Clarke
C: Montagna, Hayes, Gram
HF: Schneider, Koschitzke, Dal Santo
F: Milne, Riewoldt, Armitage
Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Jones, M.Gardiner, Ray, X.Clarke
Emg: Blake, Steven, L.Fisher
SANDRINGHAM VFL TEAM:
B: ? ? , Blake, L.Fisher
HB: Miles, Haretuku, Geary
C: Smith, Steven, Howard
HF: Lynch, Gwilt, Heyne
F: Connors, Cahill, Stanley
Foll: McEvoy, McQualter, Eddy
Int: B.McGrath, ? ?, ? ?, ? ?
? ? Sandringham Listed Players or St Kilda Rookie List Players
sunsaint wrote: You are joking about leg speed, arent you?
Surely you are joking?
You have to be able to outsprint your oponent to get the loose ball.
You have to be able to break away with a burst of speed from a pack.
You have to be able to outsprint your opponent in a marking lead.
You have to be able to chase down your opponent when they have the ball.
You have to be able to close quickly in a marking contest to outspoil the attempt.
I knew I had forgotten someoneCro wrote:So umm.. what's Begley doing then?LTN16 wrote:I think the Round 1 team will look something like this:
ST KILDA
B: Gilbert, Hudghton, Baker
HB: S.Fisher, Maguire, R.Clarke
C: Montagna, Hayes, Gram
HF: Schneider, Koschitzke, Dal Santo
F: Milne, Riewoldt, Armitage
Foll: King, Ball, Goddard
Int: Jones, M.Gardiner, Ray, X.Clarke
Emg: Blake, Steven, L.Fisher
SANDRINGHAM VFL TEAM:
B: ? ? , Blake, L.Fisher
HB: Miles, Haretuku, Geary
C: Smith, Steven, Howard
HF: Lynch, Gwilt, Heyne
F: Connors, Cahill, Stanley
Foll: McEvoy, McQualter, Eddy
Int: B.McGrath, ? ?, ? ?, ? ?
? ? Sandringham Listed Players or St Kilda Rookie List Players
Hmmmm very profound words had Ben Cousins joined us.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:speed is over-rated...our niche is getting the pilljoffaboy wrote:Slow as a wet weekthe_D_train wrote:this team is a bit different but it just clicks in my mind obviously question marks over Maguire and Baker aswell as Lynch and Dempster will be out for a while but if everyone was healthy next year this would be the team i would pick.
B: S Gilbert - M Hudghton – S Baker
HB: S Dempster - M Maguire - S Fisher
C: C Begley - L Hayes - J Gram
HF: N Dal Santo - N Riewoldt - L Montagna
F: S Milne - R Clarke - J Koschitzke
Foll: S King - B Goddard - L Ball
Inter : D Armitage - J Steven - T Lynch - F Ray
What does everyone think ?