The Richmond Situation Vs. Ours

[PJ]

Ben who????

I heard we picked up some pretty handy kids today.

[Moccha]

Deal with the facts people... FACTS! Not hypothisies.

Ok.

Here's the facts.

Ben Cousins was available. A recovering drug addict, but also one of the greatest players ever.

Them's the facts. Here's my take on the facts.

He's a risk. But one not as huge as 15 clubs feared. I think think they were less fearful of Ben himself and overestimated the potential fallout of a) him signing and b) him stuffing up.

I believe that in actual fact, his signing has been a massive POSITIVE for Richmond. No backlash in sight whatsoever. If anything, his signing is generating huge interest in memberships, and their sponsors are getting unreal exposure. Dick Smith would be delighted at how much exposure their brand is getting. I know I would be.

If he stuffs up and goes back to his old ways, Richmond delist him and move him on. I would be shocked if any player was dragged down with him. Shocked.

The upside? Ben gets back to 90% of his old self and plays out three years of solid footy, and Richmond play a massive role in doing a good thing by a human being who's skills we've come to admire for the past decade.

And he shows their midfielders how to gut-run, kick goals and be an elite, damaging players.

It's a worthwhile risk.

No YOU must find a way to erase YOUR overwhelming feeling of deflation

You obviously don't come on here a lot.

There's about five of you ferociously waving the anti-Cousins flag like it would have been the end of the world if he'd joined us.

So what happens if he re-offends and gets caught?

It will turn out that it won't be such a brave decision to recruit him but a foolish one

[BigMart]

Why foolish???


They took the last pick of 90 players to secure him.....what is the likleyhood there last selection would have turned out.....heaven knows he may have got caught on drugs....


Worth a punt.....even if he re-offends tommorrow....

[Mr Magic]

Why foolish???


They took the last pick of 90 players to secure him.....what is the likleyhood there last selection would have turned out.....heaven knows he may have got caught on drugs....


Worth a punt.....even if he re-offends tommorrow....

If he's gonna re-offend it's proably better he do it before the season than through it.

With the possible penalties of losing premiership points you would hate to think what will happen if he fails a 'hair drug test' in August and the AFL cannot determine ewxactly when in the previous 3 months the positive occured.
What will they do?
Take off all the Premiership Points for those 3 months? Richmond cannot claim ignorance on the penalties - every Club has been warned of them.

Most clamouring for BC's return keep 'glossing over' the ramifications of him re-offending claiming it's an 'acceptable risk'. This is brand new territory we're in and who knows what the AFL will do if it happens? All we can be certain of is that they have warned all Clubs of what they can do.
Would they? The AFL have shown they're prepared to do some strange things at times - never forget they through out a hundred year old rule during Sirengate.

[WayneJudson42]

Why foolish???


They took the last pick of 90 players to secure him.....what is the likleyhood there last selection would have turned out.....heaven knows he may have got caught on drugs....


Worth a punt.....even if he re-offends tommorrow....

If he's gonna re-offend it's proably better he do it before the season than through it.

With the possible penalties of losing premiership points you would hate to think what will happen if he fails a 'hair drug test' in August and the AFL cannot determine ewxactly when in the previous 3 months the positive occured.
What will they do?
Take off all the Premiership Points for those 3 months? Richmond cannot claim ignorance on the penalties - every Club has been warned of them.

Most clamouring for BC's return keep 'glossing over' the ramifications of him re-offending claiming it's an 'acceptable risk'. This is brand new territory we're in and who knows what the AFL will do if it happens? All we can be certain of is that they have warned all Clubs of what they can do.
Would they? The AFL have shown they're prepared to do some strange things at times - never forget they through out a hundred year old rule during Sirengate.

PLus: the effect on his team mates
Plus: The RFC likely to implode as it does
Plus: The unwanted media scrutiny on the club and players
Plus: the teams planning for 09 out the window

If he was 100% proven to be clean, I'd have him in a flash... but his behaviour leads me to think otherwise.

[PJ]

The Saints fans are as bad as any. The difference probably being that alot of Saints fans are mindless sheep, whereas other clubs' members stand up and make their point.

Nice piece of inflammatory propaganda there RF. Find where the division is and exploit it.

I also liked the soppy stuff about GT and his family.

All you left out was how Lyon eats his children and the administration are Collingwood sympathisers.

[Moccha]

You've got to wonder????????
http://www.theage.com.au/national/cousi ... -6zu7.html

[sendmehomehappy]

Yeah..we are all still wondering. Doing too much wondering for our own good.

BC has a club now...he is on Richmond's list. It is time to talk about this "confidential board information", the real reason why our board did not take him after 5 months investigation...was it the hammies, the age, the 2 years off, the hair-cut, the shady connections, the relapse risk, still using, all of these, or something else?

This becoming common knowledge now cannot remove him from Richmond's list...only he can do that.

It could help many bemused supporters to understand the board's, in some eyes at least, mysterious turnaround and decision...let alone their explanation.

It is not like this knowledge will not leak out at some stage anyway. Knowing about it sooner may even help Richmond help him better (even 'tho I'm am sure they know..but have more pressing reasons to take him)

Who has the balls on this forum to tell it like it really is?

Surely, if it is factual, it is not fear of some legal repercussions?

[Fulham_Sainter]

Yeah..we are all still wondering. Doing too much wondering for our own good.

BC has a club now...he is on Richmond's list. It is time to talk about this "confidential board information", the real reason why our board did not take him after 5 months investigation...was it the hammies, the age, the 2 years off, the hair-cut, the shady connections, the relapse risk, still using, all of these, or something else?

This becoming common knowledge now cannot remove him from Richmond's list...only he can do that.

It could help many bemused supporters to understand the board's, in some eyes at least, mysterious turnaround and decision...let alone their explanation.

It is not like this knowledge will not leak out at some stage anyway. Knowing about it sooner may even help Richmond help him better (even 'tho I'm am sure they know..but have more pressing reasons to take him)

Who has the balls on this forum to tell it like it really is?

Surely, if it is factual, it is not fear of some legal repercussions?

Got to love the media coming here baiting us...... I'm sure people on this forum do know the reason why we didn't take Ben, but yeah I think your last statement summed up the reason why the lips are shut.

[Zed]

What are the repercussions on Richmond if Cousins relapses?

Hope he doesn't but it is a very real possibility with a junkie?

...and that I suspect was the unresolved question at St Kilda - because it was never about his football ability or age.

[Hurricane]

What are the repercussions on Richmond if Cousins relapses?

Hope he doesn't but it is a very real possibility with a junkie?

...and that I suspect was the unresolved question at St Kilda - because it was never about his football ability or age.

The problem is (from my point of view) that when you are addicted to a substance, especially a highly destructive one like a narcotic, you are NEVER 100% cured. He can control himself and be clean but you cant cure drug addiction.

I have seen enough documentrys and read enough books to know that drug addiction always stays with you. I just honesty hope that Cousins can keep his act togther

BANG BANG

[SaintDippa]

Surely all this histeria needs to be put on hold until he actually runs out Round 1.

Mid Dec to end Mar is approx 16 weeks, times 3 = 48 urine tests and one hair sample test. And a Pre-Season.

If he runs out Round 1 then we should be asking questions and having these discussions. IMO.

[spert]

Obviously a lot of people here know more about Cousins than Lyon and the board of the Saints. Let Richmond do their grab for more memberships, but at some stage, our club needed to make a stand and commit to youth in order to win a flag, instead of the failed system which has plagued the Saints for years, of propping up the list with older recycled players who are past their prime. I hope Cousins kicks his habit, but in our case, the club chosen not to bring someone on board with baggage, and IMHO, that's better for younger players and supporters alike.

I think you miss the point Spert... BC isn't just another recycled player past his prime... he would have taken us to the next level and we would have won the flag next year.

It's a given that he will perform to his past abilities. Can't you see that?

Oh, yeah that's right... we only wanted him because he deserves a 2nd chance. Perhaps if Mother Theresa was still alive, she could become our next President.

What I said stands -he's a recycled 30yo onballer..we need a full back or CHB to give us a better crack at a flag. We dont need distractions in the background and that's what's buggered this club for years.

[saintspremiers]

Obviously a lot of people here know more about Cousins than Lyon and the board of the Saints. Let Richmond do their grab for more memberships, but at some stage, our club needed to make a stand and commit to youth in order to win a flag, instead of the failed system which has plagued the Saints for years, of propping up the list with older recycled players who are past their prime. I hope Cousins kicks his habit, but in our case, the club chosen not to bring someone on board with baggage, and IMHO, that's better for younger players and supporters alike.

I think you miss the point Spert... BC isn't just another recycled player past his prime... he would have taken us to the next level and we would have won the flag next year.

It's a given that he will perform to his past abilities. Can't you see that?

Oh, yeah that's right... we only wanted him because he deserves a 2nd chance. Perhaps if Mother Theresa was still alive, she could become our next President.

What I said stands -he's a recycled 30yo onballer..we need a full back or CHB to give us a better crack at a flag. We dont need distractions in the background and that's what's buggered this club for years.

long term you are right.

What will be interesting is to see the Tiger's membership growth during the offseason.

This may offset the cost of babysitting Cousins next year (ie. bodyguards, extra media resources etc).

If the two cancel each other out, he's not a financial risk in the slightest.

[Saints94]

Obviously a lot of people here know more about Cousins than Lyon and the board of the Saints. Let Richmond do their grab for more memberships, but at some stage, our club needed to make a stand and commit to youth in order to win a flag, instead of the failed system which has plagued the Saints for years, of propping up the list with older recycled players who are past their prime. I hope Cousins kicks his habit, but in our case, the club chosen not to bring someone on board with baggage, and IMHO, that's better for younger players and supporters alike.

I think you miss the point Spert... BC isn't just another recycled player past his prime... he would have taken us to the next level and we would have won the flag next year.

It's a given that he will perform to his past abilities. Can't you see that?

Oh, yeah that's right... we only wanted him because he deserves a 2nd chance. Perhaps if Mother Theresa was still alive, she could become our next President.

What I said stands -he's a recycled 30yo onballer..we need a full back or CHB to give us a better crack at a flag. We dont need distractions in the background and that's what's buggered this club for years.

long term you are right.

What will be interesting is to see the Tiger's membership growth during the offseason.

This may offset the cost of babysitting Cousins next year (ie. bodyguards, extra media resources etc).

If the two cancel each other out, he's not a financial risk in the slightest.

I rekon Cuz will retire or get delisted again in the next 2 years..... sadly

[clobba]

I am just happy the man is back doing what he does best, playing football.

.....well maybe second best, he's fairly good at partying as well

JK.....hope he gets back to the top.

Good work by Richmond having the balls to give him another go.

Will be interesting if we play them next year and he gets 40 in a 10 goal belting!!!

The forum will be going nuts!!!

I would LMFAO Heres hoping it happens

[clobba]

What are the repercussions on Richmond if Cousins relapses?

Hope he doesn't but it is a very real possibility with a junkie?

Minimal to none IMO.

[rodgerfox]

they did a investigation on the list, decided not to take older players and stuck to it. That is my only point.

I'd be staggered if anyone, including yourself believes that it took the club 5 months to work out that Cousins is 30 years old.

I think this is the whole issue, no one knows why we didn't take him.

We're in the dark.

[Saints94]

Ross Lyon said age was a factor for not drafting Carroll

[rodgerfox]

Ross Lyon said age was a factor for not drafting Carroll

It didn't take 5 months to work out his age.

[SainterK]

Is that Caro's story for tomorrow's paper?

If so it makes a couple of pretty big assumptions/presumptions.

1. That Cousins will 'survive' without re-offending.
2. That Cousins will not have serious injury problems.

It is certainly a risk, but surely one worth taking? Richmond were better going into the decision in blind faith, there is such a thing as overanalysing....[/quote]

Soory, but that's laughable IMO. If we go in blind faith and he fails, then everyone will be on here canning the board for making an impulsive decision.

For once... i repeat... for once the board made an informed decision. Do i like it? No. But the fact remains they made an informed decision, for you cannot blame them for.[/quote]

I never blamed the board for making an informed decision? I just said in this circumstance, the club that has taken on Cousins realised that blind faith was the only option if they wanted Cousins their list...otherwise it is obvious he wouldn't of ended up anywhere (shrugs)

[Saints94]

Ross Lyon said age was a factor for not drafting Carroll

It didn't take 5 months to work out his age.

Well der..... I just couldn't see Carroll playing for us at all

[bob__71]

Here is a scenario.

You have a team of players, they have been sold on the idea that they are a group with the ability to transform a club. A club that has always been a basketcase in terms of professional conduct. A club which has always held together in the past because of the pure raw talent of individuals, but never maximised that potential, mainly because they like to party.

Now, that this group has worked so hard to get the professionalism level moving in the right direction. In a lot of regards this club has become the envy of many other clubs because of the clean hard work ethic which exists, but still they havent quite made their goal, do you.....

a) Take a fallen star player who may help the onfield cause while the club help the player with his off field cause. However this player embodies all that was holding the club back in the past.

or

b) Keep working hard towards the goal while picking up players who want to work hard in the St Kilda environment.

I tell u what ya do....You do a lot of homework, and make the descision that the board is comfortable with. You cannot allow BC into the club if he is going to be involved with drugs. It doestroys a lot of what the modern saints are about, that is it plain and simple.

[spert]

I think this is probably our best chance for ages to build a quality team with a great group of younger players mixed with the more experienced group. The board and Lyon got King and Gardner as we did have a big problem with rucks, and those two seem pretty settled, but it seems the club is committed to building a team up, rather than buying any more risky older players for the next season.

[WayneJudson42]

Great to wake up to some common sense.

Rodge, you are spot on... no one here really knows why, and that is probably the most frustrating aspect of the whole deal.

I don not think that Ben's age was an issue... nor was it his playing ability. Otherwise the club would not have taken it as far as they did.

Fit and clean, Benny would be a major asset to our playing group. No question. Period.

The challenge with BC, is that it isn't a decision that would be based purely on "footy" terms, liek a Ryan O'Keefe.

There appear to be too many grey areas. And as the old saying goes: If in doubt, leave it out.

Something happenned to cause concern at board level. Was it sponsors or Ben himself? Who knows. And until we do, all arguments are purely hypothetical IMO.

I do not believe that Richmond were "brave". Quite the opposite. This has Sheedy's fingerprints all over it... the master marketer. If they were going to be brave, they would have had him on the rader earlier this year.

If it works out for them, then congratulations to them. If it doesn't... they can deal with it.

I reckon anyone who works to redeem themselves desrves a 2nd chance. But not if they don't want to redeem themselves. And things like body waxes and attending funerals of ex-drug dealers doesn't show much smarts.

From a footy perspective, if Ben can recapture his former glory, then we made the wrong decision. From a redemption perspective... if the signs were not good... then we made the correct decision.

There's no point comparing him with Gardiner or whoever. It's pure speculation. Until we know the facts, we cannot condemn our club and board... likewise we cannot congratulate Richmond.

FWIW, I am happy that at least the club weighed up all considerations before making a decision. All this talk about taking risks to win a flag is hogwash IMO. This club has gone off half-cocked too many times and taken risks that have ultimately condemned us to a history of mediocrity.