Why??

[Little Dozer]

I was at North v Collingwood late last year and was amazed at how loud North supporters were even though they were clearly out-numbered by filth supporters. The roar was amazing. The only time Saints fans have come close to this recently is when Schwarze kicked that goal against the Bears.....

[iwantmeseats]

I have noticed that as well. Also a carlton game I remember from a year or two ago, and we had the upper hand at the time. Just embarassing.

Our support at games is by far and away the most timid and weak of all clubs.

To start with have a listen to the "cheer" Squad, but its the supporters as a whole really. Sometimes at the game I have mused that it almost seems like the theatre. WhY? Please anyone, let me know if you figure it out!

[Teflon]

Firstly to selectively quote you......I'd have to at least quote you......but ah yes.....you'd know that being the sites resident Journalist in waiting (or was that wanting?)

That aside, the bleatings of "the suits are winning" is such a tired cliche Im dumbfounded you'd trot it out again. Ofcourse they are.

Football is a business - if you dont run it like a business then expect to go out of business quick and you can then get your club "fix" down at the local darts comp. Seriously - dont pander to the corporates then simply go broke (ask the Dees/Dogs....but then..... if your lamington drives can save us from financial ruin Im all ears).

I get my sense of "club" from the colors, from players like Robert Harvey and now hopefully the Riewoldts/Hayes that follow suit. I dont need a book or weekly email from the club to tell me this club has a history and a soul - that exists within the supporters NOT the walls of a dilapidated stadium or through on line chats....

Geez Id argue AFL clubs aint been real "clubs" for years - so what? - that doesnt diminish my love for all things Saints...that's a far more personal thing that goes to the heart of being a supporter.

Would I like a shiny bistro where I could have a steak and look at black/white pics of legends past while enjoying a few beers? - yep who wouldnt and we may in time see that. But to do that we need to lean on a few more "suits" to make sure we survive that long....ah...the corporate buggers again....

If its social connectivity your really in need of I'd recommend the Scouts.

That post started incredibly weirdly, got progressively odder and ended on an even more bizarre note.

Come on the Jeld-Wen Saints, eh?

Thats not the half of it.....whats "weirder" is you understood it and still responded... ...it had to be the Scouts link yeah?

Regardless, glad to see your feeling "connected"...I can send you a PM soon if you like.... dressed up as Grant to give you that warm fuzzy loved by the club feel you need...

As for Jeld Wen Saints??

Sounds good to me - you reckon Port Adelaide would object to it at the moment? or perhaps they'd decline the support and fight the good fight against the dreaded "suits" ruining our game....

[Spinner]

The club is losing it's identity, diminishing the essence of what it stands for.

To become a powerhouse St Kilda should base it self in St Kilda, the most marketable suburb in Victoria, yet the club now seeks to base itself on the whims of a man who has now left the club, in the backblocks of Seaford and embrace Frankston like it's some holy grail!


St Kilda in St Kilda would make this club have a real strong identity which would translate into something meaningful, players would want to come to our club, we would be seen as a desirable club to play for, which would translate into onfield success and much revenue in terms of marketing and merchandise!

Now the club is heading further south, yes that is exactly what this move is, both geographically and metaphorically!

The club doesn't stand for anything anymore!

The Western Bulldogs will go from strength to strength because they are getting a state of the art facility at the Whitten Oval in Footscray!

The Western Bulldogs will overtake us eventually in membership and be a stronger club than us because of this!

This is all because of the proposal/submission put forward by Archie Fraser who could sell ice to eskimoes, which the current board has accepted.

When the Frankston park proposal fell over, Archie Fraser drove around the Frankston area looking for a vacant lot and then the board ticked this off!

I have been told personally by a board member that Archie Fraser's Belvedere park option was given the green light by the board, because they thought they needed to make a quick decision!

Yes this is a fact, I was told directly from a board member, that the board thought they needed to make a quick decision!

Now Archie Fraser is gone, but the mess that this will create will be around for a long time until the club eventually has to merge or relocate!

So many were so keen to get rid of Butterss, but I know for a fact that if Moorabbin were not possible then he was determined to once again relocate the club in the St Kilda area!

The one thing this club is famous for is making premature decisions and shooting itself in the foot!

A current long serving player when asked about the Seaford relocation said " Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Would it not be far more appropriate to have a state of the art facility located somewhere close to where we actually play our home games, which might be handy for any after game physio etc...etc...


If only Butterss was still here, we would be more than likely relocating to some vacant lot in the St Kilda area instead of the back blocks of Seaford which even the players are pissed off about, a fact that didn't surprise the same board member!

The club is fast losing it's soul!

Best. Post. Ever.


But as always, (those within the region) will convieniently argue otherwise which is based around this 'hope' of attracting 'fairweather' supporters from this 'growth' area.

Hm, if I were a prospective draft talent entering the league, where would I rather play....

Lexus center or Frankston.
Windy Hill or Frankston.
Whitton Oval or Frankston.
Visy or Frankston.
Waverly or Frankston.
Punt Rd. or Frankston.

Frankston makes Arden St look attractive.

....as always we continue to be the laughing stock of the AFL.

[plugger66]

The club is losing it's identity, diminishing the essence of what it stands for.

To become a powerhouse St Kilda should base it self in St Kilda, the most marketable suburb in Victoria, yet the club now seeks to base itself on the whims of a man who has now left the club, in the backblocks of Seaford and embrace Frankston like it's some holy grail!


St Kilda in St Kilda would make this club have a real strong identity which would translate into something meaningful, players would want to come to our club, we would be seen as a desirable club to play for, which would translate into onfield success and much revenue in terms of marketing and merchandise!

Now the club is heading further south, yes that is exactly what this move is, both geographically and metaphorically!

The club doesn't stand for anything anymore!

The Western Bulldogs will go from strength to strength because they are getting a state of the art facility at the Whitten Oval in Footscray!

The Western Bulldogs will overtake us eventually in membership and be a stronger club than us because of this!

This is all because of the proposal/submission put forward by Archie Fraser who could sell ice to eskimoes, which the current board has accepted.

When the Frankston park proposal fell over, Archie Fraser drove around the Frankston area looking for a vacant lot and then the board ticked this off!

I have been told personally by a board member that Archie Fraser's Belvedere park option was given the green light by the board, because they thought they needed to make a quick decision!

Yes this is a fact, I was told directly from a board member, that the board thought they needed to make a quick decision!

Now Archie Fraser is gone, but the mess that this will create will be around for a long time until the club eventually has to merge or relocate!

So many were so keen to get rid of Butterss, but I know for a fact that if Moorabbin were not possible then he was determined to once again relocate the club in the St Kilda area!

The one thing this club is famous for is making premature decisions and shooting itself in the foot!

A current long serving player when asked about the Seaford relocation said " Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Would it not be far more appropriate to have a state of the art facility located somewhere close to where we actually play our home games, which might be handy for any after game physio etc...etc...


If only Butterss was still here, we would be more than likely relocating to some vacant lot in the St Kilda area instead of the back blocks of Seaford which even the players are pissed off about, a fact that didn't surprise the same board member!

The club is fast losing it's soul!

Best. Post. Ever.


But as always, (those within the region) will convieniently argue otherwise which is based around this 'hope' of attracting 'fairweather' supporters from this 'growth' area.

Hm, if I were a prospective draft talent entering the league, where would I rather play....

Lexus center or Frankston.
Windy Hill or Frankston.
Whitton Oval or Frankston.
Visy or Frankston.
Waverly or Frankston.
Punt Rd. or Frankston.

Frankston makes Arden St look attractive.

....as always we continue to be the laughing stock of the AFL.

Can I ask what the difference between Waverley and Seaford is. They are pretty much the same difference from the city for a start and I have to laugh when you say where would you rather play. No one is playing at any of these grounds, they are training grounds where about 50 people go to watch so I again ask people for probably the 20th time why does it matter where we train. As for the draft talent asking that question they dont have a choice for a start and secondly say it was a young Robert Harvey who was asked that question. What do you think his answer would be.

[kaos theory]

Hm, if I were a prospective draft talent entering the league, where would I rather play....

Lexus center or Frankston.
Windy Hill or Frankston.
Whitton Oval or Frankston.
Visy or Frankston.
Waverly or Frankston.
Punt Rd. or Frankston.

You forgot to add Geelong. Fancy having to either live in a boring little hick town, or travel 2 plus hours to get to training if you lived in melbourne! Terrible!

Therefore, on your logic the cats would never be able to win a flag or build a good team.....

[WayneJudson42]

Funny thing perception.

Some bang on about how connected we were under GT/Butters cause GT logged in to an online chat every now and again trotting out cliches and acting like JC for about half hour. Somehow this made people feel connected to the club? WTF? These people must need mum to still tell them the boogy man aint real and everything will be allright in the morning.

I too talked to GT in those chats, Butters at family days - never felt anymore connected because of that than I do now?

I felt connected cause I felt we had just recruited a super list with great kids and the likes of Gehrig/Hamills to complement...now I recognise things for what they are.

The champions aka Harveys are gone. The Hamills, Gehrigs, Thompsons, Jones, Powells, Pecketts are also gone.

Our only TRULY elite footballer is our Captain (elite being in the top 3 of his position in the comp), some of our new superstars havent materialised as we'd all imagined and the gap between our best and our second stringer brigade is the biggest its been in 7 years.

I can't honestly help the feeling that we are further away from a flag than we were for these reasons...a little annoyed that we didnt do ALL we could to get it right when the chances were there but I still feel connected though - I dont need an internet chat to change that and I dont give up on the club for that.

Hole-In-One!

[WayneJudson42]

That aside, the bleatings of "the suits are winning" is such a tired cliche Im dumbfounded you'd trot it out again. Ofcourse they are.

Football is a business - if you dont run it like a business then expect to go out of business quick and you can then get your club "fix" down at the local darts comp. Seriously - dont pander to the corporates then simply go broke (ask the Dees/Dogs....but then..... if your lamington drives can save us from financial ruin Im all ears).

I get my sense of "club" from the colors, from players like Robert Harvey and now hopefully the Riewoldts/Hayes that follow suit. I dont need a book or weekly email from the club to tell me this club has a history and a soul - that exists within the supporters NOT the walls of a dilapidated stadium or through on line chats....

Geez Id argue AFL clubs aint been real "clubs" for years - so what? - that doesnt diminish my love for all things Saints...that's a far more personal thing that goes to the heart of being a supporter.

Would I like a shiny bistro where I could have a steak and look at black/white pics of legends past while enjoying a few beers? - yep who wouldnt and we may in time see that. But to do that we need to lean on a few more "suits" to make sure we survive that long....ah...the corporate buggers again....

If its social connectivity your really in need of I'd recommend the Scouts.

Followed up with a beautiful Eagle on a par 5.

Very good sense of perspective Teffs.

The love of all things R,B & W transcends all things monetary IMO.

I'm there because I choose to be there. I feel no more connected today than I did 38 years ago, because of anything the club has done.

My level of "connectivity" with the club has fluctuated based on MY level of interest in the footy over the years. As a kid, I was more "connected" because I went to every game, kept score in the footy record... collected footy cards etc.

I still feel the sense of tribalism as I once did, and these days, we have a group of 2 odd whom we've attended games for over 20 years now.

The suits are winning at our club... and thank god for that, if it means that finally, we have people in charge who can ensure long term financial survival.

As for Seaford... have said all along... it's there to provide players with the opportunity to achieve peak performance in their quest for a flag... not to satisfy pissant supporters like you and me.

Cheers.

[bob__71]

So by barks logic since the Western Bulldogs are so good because they will be in Footscray.....It would be OK for us to change our name to the Southern Saints, as long as we train in St.Kilda.

[rodgerfox]

The suits are winning at our club... and thank god for that, if it means that finally, we have people in charge who can ensure long term financial survival.

But WayneJudson42, you surely realise that 'suits' don't care about the club as such - but care about making a buck.

At this stage, this means playing in Melbourne. However, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that that will be the case for ever. Would you still be Ok with it if we were shipped up to the Gold Coast?

That's a concern that people have.


I think it's great that people like you still 'get into' the footy. It was fun. It's just that the aspects of it that you enjoy, are different to what other people enjoy.
The aspects of it that you enjoy, are still intact. For now. However the aspects that others enjoy, isn't.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong here as you're suggesting. And as those on the 'other side' are suggesting also. It's a personal thing.

Sitting there in a plastic seat with a scarfe and beanie on cheering some 21yo's on who are playing nothing but a game, is the height of idiocy to me these days.
However as a kid, I lived for it.

It's a personal thing.

[spert]

The times are a changin'.. I remember going to many home games at Arctic Park only to see it torn down, and now I drive past the Linton St. ground and see it all being dismantled. These days if I can't get to the Dome, it's sitting on the leather lounge in front of the plasma watching us play somewhere via cable TV with the central heating on..that's winter footy these days..maybe the Saints new spiritual home is cyber-space rather than out in Seaford next to the Frankston Freeway??

[rodgerfox]

maybe the Saints new spiritual home is cyber-space rather than out in Seaford next to the Frankston Freeway??

I think you're absolutely right.

[markp]

At this stage, this means playing in Melbourne. However, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that that will be the case for ever.

Only logic.

Sitting there in a plastic seat with a scarfe and beanie on cheering some 21yo's on who are playing nothing but a game, is the height of idiocy to me these days.
However as a kid, I lived for it.

It's a personal thing.

So don't.... and how does constantly posting (some may even call it trolling) on an internet fan forum (dedicated to nothing but a game played by 21 year olds) about how you don't enjoy it anymore rate on your idiocy scale?

[WayneJudson42]

The suits are winning at our club... and thank god for that, if it means that finally, we have people in charge who can ensure long term financial survival.

But WayneJudson42, you surely realise that 'suits' don't care about the club as such - but care about making a buck.

At this stage, this means playing in Melbourne. However, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that that will be the case for ever. Would you still be Ok with it if we were shipped up to the Gold Coast?

That's a concern that people have.


I think it's great that people like you still 'get into' the footy. It was fun. It's just that the aspects of it that you enjoy, are different to what other people enjoy.
The aspects of it that you enjoy, are still intact. For now. However the aspects that others enjoy, isn't.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong here as you're suggesting. And as those on the 'other side' are suggesting also. It's a personal thing.

Sitting there in a plastic seat with a scarfe and beanie on cheering some 21yo's on who are playing nothing but a game, is the height of idiocy to me these days.
However as a kid, I lived for it.

It's a personal thing.

Surely that depends on who's wearing the suit...

Burke, Thommo, Bromberg, Nettlefold all ex-saints... Westaway, passionate Saints man.

I agree that it's personal. But I also insist that in an emotionally charged environment like a footy club, you need people who can make cold rational decisions.

If a business isn't growing, then it's dying. Simple as that. Hard decisions need to be taken and there will be an opportinuty cost somewhere alon gthe the line, regardless of which direction a club takes.

For every disenfranchised supporter, there's usually a new supporter taking his or her place. A proppy reliance, I agree... but the reality none the less.

FWIW, I despised going to Waverly to watch us play. And the G doesn't turn me on either.

Like yourself, I reckon the extreme role that AFL plays in some people's lives is ridiculous... but unlike you, I take it all with a grain of salt. It's nice to get out for a few hours and go nuts, given the stress we experience in daily life.

[barks4eva]

I again ask people for probably the 20th time why does it matter where we train.

It matters to the players!

A current long serving player was asked what he thought about the Seaford relocation, his response word for word,

"Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Hence it does matter!

[markp]

I again ask people for probably the 20th time why does it matter where we train.

It matters to the players!

A current long serving player was asked what he thought about the Seaford relocation, his response word for word,

"Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Hence it does matter!

Oh please.... if my work relocated further from my home I may 'not be real happy about it' either.... but if I was on the sort of coin these lads are on I'd suck it up.... or move closer.

[WayneJudson42]

I again ask people for probably the 20th time why does it matter where we train.

It matters to the players!

A current long serving player was asked what he thought about the Seaford relocation, his response word for word,

"Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Hence it does matter!

Yeap, so once again... let the players dictate to the club, like they used to.

After all... we've seen how many flags that attitude won us over 100 years, haven't we?

[rodgerfox]

So don't.... and how does constantly posting (some may even call it trolling) on an internet fan forum (dedicated to nothing but a game played by 21 year olds) about how you don't enjoy it anymore rate on your idiocy scale?

It depends on what your intentions are.

[amusingname]

Barks, did this anonymous player tell you this at the same time that the anonymous board member told you about Archie driving around Frankston looking for a vacant lot.

A senior player, who I can't name of course, told me that the boys were excited about getting a new facility.

The plot thickens, anonymous players making broad statements left, right and centre.

[barks4eva]

Barks, did this anonymous player tell you this at the same time that the anonymous board member told you about Archie driving around Frankston looking for a vacant lot.

Nah, Archie revealed that himself!

A senior player, who I can't name of course, told me that the boys were excited about getting a new facility.

Yeah, excited about a new facility, just that the location sucks!

[TriColourDisciple]

The whole Seaford thing is going to go ahead whether we like it not.
However, I think we should re-establish a connection with the suburb of St.kilda somehow, as it is such a vibrant, exciting, popular, & not to mention, marketable part of Melbourne (Victoria really)
To walk away from all of this, especially when it's our name & who we are, is not only foolish, but irresponsable aswell.
When there were whispers of move away from Moorabbin, I assumed that some sort of reconnection with the suburb would take place. It seemed logical.
Maybe if they train at the Junction on the odd occasion, hold family days at the Junction or Lunar park,etc. might go some way to achieve this.

..And, When/if we do win that elusive Premiership, Who would want to go to soul-less Seaford to celebrate? We could celebrate at The Junction Oval: Our original & spirtual home.

[barks4eva]

The whole Seaford thing is going to go ahead whether we like it not.
However, I think we should re-establish a connection with the suburb of St.kilda somehow, as it is such a vibrant, exciting, popular, & not to mention, marketable part of Melbourne (Victoria really)
To walk away from all of this, especially when it's our name & who we are, is not only foolish, but irresponsable aswell.
When there were whispers of move away from Moorabbin, I assumed that some sort of reconnection with the suburb would take place. It seemed logical.
Maybe if they train at the Junction on the odd occasion, hold family days at the Junction or Lunar park,etc. might go some way to achieve this.

..And, When/if we do win that elusive Premiership, Who would want to go to soul-less Seaford to celebrate? We could celebrate at The Junction Oval: Our original & spirtual home.

Case in point!


Hawthorn train at Waverley now, BUT

They had their family day in Hawthorn.

They had the big screens in Hawthorn for Grand final day for members who could not be at the MCG.

They had their premiership celebrations in Hawthorn.

Why, because they respect thier history and traditions!

Which all in all, helps keep the soul of the club alive!

[markp]

So don't.... and how does constantly posting (some may even call it trolling) on an internet fan forum (dedicated to nothing but a game played by 21 year olds) about how you don't enjoy it anymore rate on your idiocy scale?

It depends on what your intentions are.

Your stated intention or your actual intention?

You trying to 'save' the club and footy in general?... surely you know posting here with such an intention would be at least as pointless and idiotic as cheering some kid chasing a ball around.

You trying to shyte stir?... infinitely more pointless and idiotic.

It comes down to personal enjoyment.... if game and fan forum (or even partner and job) just don't do it for you anymore, it just may be time to find pastures new.

Let's not drag this out rodge... no one is to blame, you've just grown apart....

[SideshowMilne]

Barks, I know you are going to bang on about this till you go to your grave, but the reality is there is no feasible option closer to town than Linton Street. As much as everybody would like otherwise, they had to look out, not in. About the only possible option, (and a good one) is the Junction Oval, however just not sure how much development would be allowed there.

There is just no way a 'new' ground at Elsterwick Park or others would have ever got off the ground.

[plugger66]

I again ask people for probably the 20th time why does it matter where we train.

It matters to the players!

A current long serving player was asked what he thought about the Seaford relocation, his response word for word,

"Yeah a few of the boys are not real happy about it"

Hence it does matter!

Well a few of the boys arent happy. Is that 3 or 33. What about the guys who live 15 minutes from Seaford and there are quite a few, do they care and even if they do, do you really think it matters. Are they going to get a clearance to WCE. Then thay will have something to complain about in regards to travel. For about 80% of players it is an extra 25 minute drive. Something tells me that will have no effect at all on the players.