I agree, especially with Robert Harvey retiring Goose's confidence has skyrocketed.plugger66 wrote:Dont know about reports from the practice game but Goose is improving every week in games and on the track and is much closer than many think on here to a return to the AFL. 2-3 more improved games and he will be back.
Goose: Is he finished???
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Moccha
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Why do you want to know?saintspremiers wrote:what round do you think he will be back?plugger66 wrote:Dont know about reports from the practice game but Goose is improving every week in games and on the track and is much closer than many think on here to a return to the AFL. 2-3 more improved games and he will be back.
(I know it's a guess...)
You said he's finished!
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BAM! (shhhh)
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Anyone writing off Goose, or deciding he's not going to be a defender anymore, is jumping the gun - it's round 2.
It's been a rough road, and a long time, but should we get him properly fit again (including some likely substandard AFL matches), there's absolutely no reason to believe he can't be an excellent defender again.
His agility concerns, raised by Thomas in his early media days, have been blown out of all proportion. The guy plays on KPP forwards, not Eddie Betts. He's always been a very good endurance runner, and he's a bona fide tough nut. I don't know about Mart's read the play concern either - I agree he plays off his man, I've always thought it because 1) he does read the play well and 2) because he backs his closing speed - he wants the opposition to kick the ball to his man.
It's certainly always been impossible to fault his cuorage - watching Gilbert throw himself in front of contests to mark in recent times has been very reminiscent of Goose.
IMO, assuming he can get back to where he was, what he'll need to adjust to is the way the game flows now - his tendency to simply kick long may be what the fans say they want, but it's just going to turn the ball over against all but the leagues dregs.
The question is an will remain what does come back as he recovers, if he recovers. While I wouldn't write him off as a defender, I wonder if trying him as a 3rd tall forward (as Mart suggests) might be a good option - his straight line sprint speed is good, and he's a tank, so he could be a good option as a leading forward (the weakness in Kosi's game when Roo's led out to the wing), right now it doesn't appear we need him in defense, our back 6 is very strong.
Good problem to have. I hope he can get back.
It's been a rough road, and a long time, but should we get him properly fit again (including some likely substandard AFL matches), there's absolutely no reason to believe he can't be an excellent defender again.
His agility concerns, raised by Thomas in his early media days, have been blown out of all proportion. The guy plays on KPP forwards, not Eddie Betts. He's always been a very good endurance runner, and he's a bona fide tough nut. I don't know about Mart's read the play concern either - I agree he plays off his man, I've always thought it because 1) he does read the play well and 2) because he backs his closing speed - he wants the opposition to kick the ball to his man.
It's certainly always been impossible to fault his cuorage - watching Gilbert throw himself in front of contests to mark in recent times has been very reminiscent of Goose.
IMO, assuming he can get back to where he was, what he'll need to adjust to is the way the game flows now - his tendency to simply kick long may be what the fans say they want, but it's just going to turn the ball over against all but the leagues dregs.
The question is an will remain what does come back as he recovers, if he recovers. While I wouldn't write him off as a defender, I wonder if trying him as a 3rd tall forward (as Mart suggests) might be a good option - his straight line sprint speed is good, and he's a tank, so he could be a good option as a leading forward (the weakness in Kosi's game when Roo's led out to the wing), right now it doesn't appear we need him in defense, our back 6 is very strong.
Good problem to have. I hope he can get back.
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mad saint guy
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I think his time as a best 22 player is up.
He was starting to struggle with the pace and agility of opposition forwards in 2006, and the game has become even faster while Goose no doubt has become slower. He would also be undersized against many tall forwards these days, and since he has trimmed down a lot in an effort to become more athletic he won't have the physical edge he used to.
The only role I could possibly see him play is the Tom Harley role as a loose floating defender, but I don't know if he's good enough to warrant selection for that job.
He doesn't have the pace, footy smarts marking ability or polish to be a forward. We're better off blooding Lynch or Heyne.
I'd love him to prove me wrong, but I don't think he's AFL quality anymore.
He was starting to struggle with the pace and agility of opposition forwards in 2006, and the game has become even faster while Goose no doubt has become slower. He would also be undersized against many tall forwards these days, and since he has trimmed down a lot in an effort to become more athletic he won't have the physical edge he used to.
The only role I could possibly see him play is the Tom Harley role as a loose floating defender, but I don't know if he's good enough to warrant selection for that job.
He doesn't have the pace, footy smarts marking ability or polish to be a forward. We're better off blooding Lynch or Heyne.
I'd love him to prove me wrong, but I don't think he's AFL quality anymore.
he could easily become what nathan thompson describes it our"bear in the square" look at the guns on him
if its sat ontop of his head he could push anyone out of the way.
he will almost always bring the ball to groud for milne and schnidier.
i think if he cant come back as a defender, playing him foward,
roo or kosi could do a richo.
leaving the other to occupy CHF.
but i still believe the goose we all love will be back.
look at nathan brown.
playing some of his best footy.
took him a very long time to get back to it.
if its sat ontop of his head he could push anyone out of the way.
he will almost always bring the ball to groud for milne and schnidier.
i think if he cant come back as a defender, playing him foward,
roo or kosi could do a richo.
leaving the other to occupy CHF.
but i still believe the goose we all love will be back.
look at nathan brown.
playing some of his best footy.
took him a very long time to get back to it.
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gringo
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Gee haven't seen the guy play a real game for two years, wasn't the worst in the preseason.
He's obviously never coming back to the game based on these and a couple of games at Sandy when he knows he is not challenging for a spot with the team thats out there.
Even as a handy back up player I would keep him around.
The Hawks were keen on him injured -a few years back he destroyed the hawks floating in and kicking important goals- his most dominant game.
Nathan Brown looked finished a couple of years ago but hes back in Richmonds top 10 players IMO.
He's obviously never coming back to the game based on these and a couple of games at Sandy when he knows he is not challenging for a spot with the team thats out there.
Even as a handy back up player I would keep him around.
The Hawks were keen on him injured -a few years back he destroyed the hawks floating in and kicking important goals- his most dominant game.
Nathan Brown looked finished a couple of years ago but hes back in Richmonds top 10 players IMO.
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He'll be back and I'm not basing that on anything other than the fact he deserves our faith and encouragement. A nasty injury with complications, write him off at your peril. Whether it's this year or next he still offers more value than a high 5th or 6th draft pick or rookie.
Game has not changed that much that we have no need for an experienced big bodied defender, not all teams have a medium sized quick forward set up like the Doggies.
He's excellent insurance in Max's twilight years as well as a being a bit of a pinch hitter until Allen, Heyne and Lynch develop.
Don't give up on him!!!
Game has not changed that much that we have no need for an experienced big bodied defender, not all teams have a medium sized quick forward set up like the Doggies.
He's excellent insurance in Max's twilight years as well as a being a bit of a pinch hitter until Allen, Heyne and Lynch develop.
Don't give up on him!!!
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older saint
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Anyone who expected him to play before the mid part of the season was dreaming. 2 years out of footy with a serious injury, if he plays 6 games this year it will be a bonus.
Nathan brown is a good example. Lighter body size so potentially less stress and quicker recovery is only now moving like he used to, yet is really only in the Richmond team on reputation and what he maybe abl to do for a quarter or 2, and because their depth is poor.
Too ealry to write him off yet. If he plays 6 games and is out of contract perhaps the club will resign him for significantly less , saving salary cap or alternatively if he plays no games or re injures himself left him go. All this must wait until seasons end not round 2
Nathan brown is a good example. Lighter body size so potentially less stress and quicker recovery is only now moving like he used to, yet is really only in the Richmond team on reputation and what he maybe abl to do for a quarter or 2, and because their depth is poor.
Too ealry to write him off yet. If he plays 6 games and is out of contract perhaps the club will resign him for significantly less , saving salary cap or alternatively if he plays no games or re injures himself left him go. All this must wait until seasons end not round 2
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bigcarl
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that's good news. let loose the goose.plugger66 wrote:Dont know about reports from the practice game but Goose is improving every week in games and on the track and is much closer than many think on here to a return to the AFL. 2-3 more improved games and he will be back.
once he gets some confidence and match-fitness back i can see him offering more than dawson did on friday night ... at chb.
that's not intended as a sledge on a kid who will be getting more opportunities as max approaches the end of his career.
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meher baba
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I so agree with you.ohwhenthesaints! wrote:Why is it I generally don't like the content of any of the threads that start with either
"I hate to say it, but"
or
"Sorry, but I think"
But what I hate far, far more is this sort of comment, which was featured in the OP.
In other words, our poster is writing off Goose's career purely on the basis of something he has read in another post on SaintsationalFrom the Sandy/Bendigo post, he was still struggling, as has been the case for several weeks.
Dissing a player without even having seen them play is just plain dumb IMO, like all the ning-nongs on here who write things like "it's time to bring in Lynch to replace Kosi, I know he's going to be a gun" even though they have never even set eyes on the guy!!
I have only seen Goose once this year (on TV) in the game against the Lions. I thought he looked quite good for a bloke who had hadn't been remotely fit enough to play AFL for the best part of 3 years. I haven't seen him since, so I'm not in a position to judge.
Surely 95 per cent of the posters on here are in the same position as me in terms of how much they have seen of Goose performing on a football field in 2009.
The thread should be renamed "Total Goose: why did he start this idiotic thread?"
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mad saint guy
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All very different to Goose.BigMart wrote:How much polish and footy smarts do the following have????
Cam Cloke - Carlton CHF Not a great player, but is taller and a better mark than Goose
Cam Mooney - Geelong Also not much more than a GOP, but is much more athletic than Matty and gets much better delivery than any saint gets
Quinten Lynch - WCE Lacks smarts but is built like a machine, can ruck, is very agile and can kick 65m comfortably
Will Minson - WB A ruckman who can rest up forward. Gets a lot of marks from mismatches in height and can generally finish in front of goals
No there NOT
They might play a bit different, but are basically big bodies that are used for structure purposes....what they are is all aggressive at the contest...
BTW - if you believe Cloke is a better mark than Goose......you are wrong
Goose can kick the ball around 60.....
Minson is a r-tard
and Mooney is easily the best Tall Fwd of that group......but it shows you that the team (midfield) often makes the fwd....
They might play a bit different, but are basically big bodies that are used for structure purposes....what they are is all aggressive at the contest...
BTW - if you believe Cloke is a better mark than Goose......you are wrong
Goose can kick the ball around 60.....
Minson is a r-tard
and Mooney is easily the best Tall Fwd of that group......but it shows you that the team (midfield) often makes the fwd....
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bigcarl
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BigMart wrote:I do not think he is agile enough (or has the tank) to play CHB ... anymore ... Jason Blake has that postion covered, Sam Fisher as back up
if goose does eventually reclaim chb ... as i believe he will ... i wouldn't worry too much about fisher and blake.
both are extremely versatile players. blake can, and has, played just about every position, including ruck.
fisher came to us as a forward, has shone as a defender, and showed plenty in a couple of stints last season as a mid.
so if and when goose does come back it will allow us the luxury of playing gilbert forward, for example, or blake on a wing, or fisher as a mid or tall forward option.
in other words it will free up some very good players to be used in more attacking positions ... like we were told would happen this season.
Why would we move settled good players to accomodate someone...
Blake has played the BEST footy of his career settled at CHB.......I'll go as far as saying that he has been our most consistent player since 2007.....can you name a player that has beaten him at CHF.....he had questions about his disposal/decision making and list worthiness when he was thrown around like a rag doll...
Fisher is an AA backman/Best and Fairest......he is better than Goose was/is/wll ever be.....he is currently the 2nd best defender in the AFL......
Is Fisher a better mid than
Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Montagna, Gram - quick answer....NO..
I remember him playng for a few minutes last season, and zero this season......he is NOT a midfielder, never has been...
Blake has played the BEST footy of his career settled at CHB.......I'll go as far as saying that he has been our most consistent player since 2007.....can you name a player that has beaten him at CHF.....he had questions about his disposal/decision making and list worthiness when he was thrown around like a rag doll...
Fisher is an AA backman/Best and Fairest......he is better than Goose was/is/wll ever be.....he is currently the 2nd best defender in the AFL......
Is Fisher a better mid than
Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Montagna, Gram - quick answer....NO..
I remember him playng for a few minutes last season, and zero this season......he is NOT a midfielder, never has been...
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bigcarl
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if i remember rightly you've never really rated goose.BigMart wrote:Why would we move settled good players to accomodate someone
well i do, and believe that if he can get back to his best then he's our best option at chb.
the other thing is it frees up these very good and creative players such as gilbert or fisher to be used in more attacking positions ... like we keep being told will happen.
instead, the forward line gets jimmy gwilt.
now i don't mind gwilt as a player, but his impact on the scoreboard as a forward is negligable and i'm sure either gilbert or fisher or bj or even raph can do it better.
we need a third tallish forward who is a genuine goalkicker imo, the lack of one will hold us back this season.
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bigcarl
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fwiw, marto, i reckon goose could hold down chf. i'm not sure that you'd want him and kosi in the same forward line though.
Last edited by bigcarl on Mon 06 Apr 2009 11:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Goose was a top notch key defender. He should have been AA in 05. Sam Fisher was AA playing a very different role to what Goose used to play. Jason Blake is filling that role right now - very capably I might add.BigMart wrote:Fisher is an AA backman/Best and Fairest......he is better than Goose was/is/wll ever be.....he is currently the 2nd best defender in the AFL......
If Goose gets his body right, he will be an AFLer in some capacity. He may not return in the exact role he was before the injury, but he's too good and too courageous a player to keep out if he's fit. He may have to reinvent himself given our wealth of talent down back. I would think though, barring further complications, that we'll see him again at the top level.
Yeah nah pleasing positive