MISSING INGREDIENT

[santazzi]

It just occurd to me that there is one missing ingredient in this fabuolus debet that is raging on this forum...PATRICK SMITH.........what happened to him........is he not a journo any more.......has he retired.......is he in ill health............or has he just decided he has said enough about the saints and he has no interest in us any more..??

[Bernard Shakey]

What is a debet?

[santazzi]

Sorry read "debate"

[stinger]

It just occurd to me that there is one missing ingredient in this fabuolus debet that is raging on this forum...PATRICK SMITH.........what happened to him........is he not a journo any more.......has he retired.......is he in ill health............or has he just decided he has said enough about the saints and he has no interest in us any more..??

he's been mentioned....


...his most recent effort re us....


"
Egos controlled, Saints march on



Patrick Smith | May 05, 2009
Article from: The Australian

THESE appear heady days for St Kilda. Top of the ladder, unbeaten, spiffy percentage and critics running desperately to catch up with the bandwagon they had previously waved on its way. Coach Ross Lyon asks for a measure of restraint, for unbridled expectation is as debilitating to a club as a busted knee is to a player.

Lyon has no crystal ball, which is good because they can be most uncomfortable. He cannot see past the next training session and each match must be treated as a means to an end that cannot be thought about until grand final week. That way everything is contained; everything can be controlled. As yet no club has successfully or usefully calibrated anticipation.

Lyon asked for sensible heads after the club recorded its sixth consecutive win on Sunday, beating the respected Western Bulldogs by 28 points. "Clearly Geelong are the benchmark team of the competition and Hawthorn have been decimated with injuries and they have still got themselves 3-3. Everyone else is chasing those two and we are no different," Lyon said after the Bulldogs match.

As it is, St Kilda is hardly breaking new ground. So far it is barely half as good as the 2004 team that won its first 10 matches, developed an ego the size of the MCG and failed to reach the grand final. When the Saints defeated Brisbane by one point in round six in 2004, it sat on top of the ladder, with easily the best percentage in the league. Very much the same as Lyon's mob.

Come round 10 and the Saints kicked 31 goals to shred Carlton by 108 points and sit unchallenged on top of the ladder, clear of second-placed Melbourne by three games and 42 percentage points. It had been a solid coaching performance by the controversial Grant Thomas for rarely - until this burst of games - could he call upon his very best 22 players.

But form can be turned on its head in an instant. St Kilda lost four of the next five games - its one victory was over Hawthorn which won four games for the year. By the end of the season it had fallen to third with 16 wins and six losses and was finally knocked out in the preliminary final to eventual premier Port Adelaide. Within two seasons Thomas was sacked. With that, a period of St Kilda's history thought by many ripe to deliver a premiership, was closed.

Thomas, who had predicted two premierships within a decade when he was in charge, now works in the media. His coaching period will be remembered as a lost opportunity where he might have tried too hard to be different and not hard enough to be good.

He left behind him a disintegrating group. The team that took St Kilda to its sixth win in a row in 2004 is different to the team Lyon coached to victory on Sunday. It has a new face and fresh arms and legs but its torso, its heart, is very much the same.

Of the team Thomas coached in round six of 2004 only seven lined up under Lyon against the Bulldogs on the weekend. But they are the essence of the team now as they were under Thomas. Brendon Goddard, Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Nick Riewoldt, Stephen Milne and Justin Koschitzke. Stephen Baker, suspended in 2004, and Matt Hudghton, injured this season, are the only other players who remain on the list who might automatically be considered in Lyon's best 22.

Lyon has recruited purposefully to flesh out his team. Farren Ray is a former Bulldog who has become a critical part of St Kilda's team. As have Adam Schneider, Zac Dawson and Michael Gardiner. Unlikely types Andrew McQualter, Robert Eddy, Clinton Jones and Jarryn Geary fulfil their role in Lyon's game strategy without fuss but with effect.

Many other things have changed at St Kilda. It has a new board and chairman. Chief executives have come and gone. A new man runs the fitness program, a new man heads the recruiting staff. It is at least one winter away before we discover whether this St Kilda version will reach the grand final the teams under Thomas could not. But Lyon has brought a sense of order to St Kilda. Its match plan is now dissected as oppositions look for elements to unpick, to exploit. They haven't had much luck.

Next Monday St Kilda must beat Collingwood to keep its unbeaten record and Collingwood must beat St Kilda so it does not fall to a negative win-loss ratio. The evolution of the two clubs since round six back in 2004 is very different. Mick Malthouse still coaches but is, more than likely, in his last year. Eddie McGuire is still running the club as well as the umpiring and football departments of the AFL. But Neil Balme is no longer football manager and Greg Swann has taken his chief executive skills to Carlton.

Critics say that Malthouse continues to use the same tactical approach he did five years ago. His list has changed significantly nonetheless. Only Dane Swan, Leon Davis, Josh Fraser, Shane O'Bree and Simon Prestigiacomo played both in round six of 2004 and last Friday. Alan Didak remains injured.

But if there is something to learn from 2004 it is this. Geelong was building the great team that now has won 48 of its past 51 matches. The team that beat Melbourne on Sunday had 10 players who played for the Cats in round six five years ago. They were Gary Ablett, Paul Chapman, Joel Corey, David Johnson, James Kelly, Andrew Mackie, Darren Milburn, Cameron Milburn, Matthew Scarlett and David Wojcinski. And another three - Cameron Ling, Tom Harley and Josh Hunt - missed out because of injury.

Missing the 2004 game were the injured Steve Johnson and Corey Enright while Jimmy Bartel was an emergency. As well Mark Thompson was the coach back then and now, Frank Costa was the chairman and Brian Cook the chief executive.

Dynasties are built by keeping your personnel as well as your head"

[The Saintsational Man]

What is a debet?

Answered.....

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debet

[cowboy18]

What is a debet?

Debet things are in life are free...

[saint patrick]

Have to admit I thought that was a decent summation of the 04 period and our season to date...

He does have moments of being relatively insightful, lucid even...its the negative pedantic tripe that rears its head far to often that still makes me turn off SEN frequently however

Still fat pryck as far as I'm concerned

[santazzi]

Thanks stinger......he has not changed has he?...
For the rest of you monkey posters enough of the "debet" ..."debate" business and focuss on real STK issues......or else................

[Beej]

What is a debet?

Answered.....

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debet

I'm pretty sure he meant debet as in...

"How will you be paying for that, sir?"

"Debet card, thanks."

[bigred]

ego the size of the MCG and failed to reach the grand final

F@ck he's a funny fat bastard isnt he.

[sainterjo]

ego the size of the MCG and failed to reach the grand final

F@ck he's a funny fat bastard isnt he.

Stalkable.

[Ghost Like]

Have to admit I thought that was a decent summation of the 04 period and our season to date...

He does have moments of being relatively insightful, lucid even...its the negative pedantic tripe that rears its head far to often that still makes me turn off SEN frequently however

Still fat pryck as far as I'm concerned

Spot on saint patrick.

[gringo]

What does he mean that Geary and Eddy are unlikely players -I get that Mini and Jones are a bit older and took some time to hit their peak but why are 2 young players coming through the system unlikely?

Idiot.

[Harvey To Hayes]

There's no real point to Smith's article though. Sure we won 10 in a row in 2004 and didn't make the GF, but he's just using that fact as a convenient lever to discredit our peroformance in 2009 and have another dip at GT.

He uses random facts to bolster superflous assertions - we have "only 7 players " playing from Rd 6 2004, whilst Geelong was "building its dynasty" as proved by them having 10 players from that round still playing? And he conveniently discounts Goose and X who played in that game, he just edits things out to help prove his specious and self-serving points of view...

I hate Smith so much...

[B W and R all over]

Stephen Baker, suspended in 2004, and Matt Hudghton, injured this season...

Any relation to Steven Baker and Max Hudghton?

Easily forgivable though, Patrick. One is a best and fairest winner and the other is one of the best full-backs of the last ten years so it's not as if their first names would be common knowledge among the football media.

Flog.