Dawson Vs Carroll

[Iceman234]

Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.

He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.

Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.

but i don't want to have a beer with you

Are you old enough to drink?

I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.

Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.

I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Your criticism of Zac is based on how many games you have seen him live? Cabbage!!!


FFS give it up before you completely embarrass yourself with your complete lack of knowledge of the game

What do you mean before he embarrasses himself.

The kid is clueless. But what do you expect from someone who hasn't even seen one single game in 2009

No effing idea apart from what a Tv screen shows him.

PMSL at this cabbage.

Pathetic and clueless to critisise a player everyone (well everyone who actually attends) can see is playing great football and smashing his direct opponents every single game.

If this cabbage had a complete view of the ground he would see that once the zone has been beaten the opposition has a clear run through the square and has to deliver long into the forward fifty. This is what the defensive setup demands. This means that the defense has to go man on man or give the defending back a chopout.

So much for the airchair experts critic on how the ball gets down to our backline

But hey only so much you can see on tellie

thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbage

so because i go against the grain that makes me clueless???

or because you believe you have an idea of the game that makes you that little bit more switched on at this caper than i??

its all zac's doing...sorry...

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.

He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.

Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.

but i don't want to have a beer with you

Are you old enough to drink?

I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.

Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.

I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...

its okay im actually 15

however when i get mature and me grows up i still won't have a beer with you

u'z are gaybos

[Iceman234]

its all zac's doing...sorry...

Well our 9-0 record has a lot to do with him, and when you see how he works (live) you'll get it, and you'll be on board.

Good to see the start of it though...and don't be sorry...

[Iceman234]

u'z are gaybos

And of course not that there would be anything wrong with that.............

Methinks you are a simple man SP2008....

[joffaboy]

thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbage

good to see you realising it

so because i go against the grain that makes me clueless???

No you are clueless because you have no clue what you are on about.

or because you believe you have an idea of the game that makes you that little bit more switched on at this caper than i??

Add thick to cabbage and kid. It is because - as I have said repeatedly - you get a better appreciation of how football is actually played when you actually see it live.

Get mummy or daddy to take you to the game on Saturday night and you will get a little bit of understanding of the Saints gameplan and how it works.

Sheesh

its all zac's doing...sorry...

the miserly defence is part of zac's doing.

get to a game and see for yourself.

[Shaggy]

Yes, but being a Brisbane-ite, hopefully you will actually see his worth live this week.

He has been a gun down back and deserves his spot every week.

Let's have a beer and discuss his success after he rips another scalp this week.

but i don't want to have a beer with you

Are you old enough to drink?

I would have a beer with this clown if I was you iceman.

Mabye you could watch a game of footy on tellie together and the einstein could tell you whats happening - cause he seems to know more about footy from tellie than the rest of us from actually attending a game.

I hadn't actually considered that he wasn't old enough to have a beer with.... and I should have...

its okay im actually 15

however when i get mature and me grows up i still won't have a beer with you

u'z are gaybos

We are 9 zip.

Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and enjoy yourself. I know nothing about you except your big, 20's and live in Brisbane based on posts. Iceman234 I believe is a family man but not certain.

Why not enjoy 10 zip together? We are all Saints supporters .

[jackal]

Um just ignored a bunch of the bickering above but a really good thread.

Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).

His mobility and ability to attack the game on has been excellent and compliments Fisher and Gilbert fantastically. Max will make it back at some stage but I would suspect not at Dawson's expense. More likely schenario is that Fisher is pushed up the ground (but why do that unless you have to try something in the coaches box cos things not going your way) or more likely that Gilbert pushed up to a wing or half forward at the possible expense of Gwilt.

Well done Zac. Along with Ray have helped address a clearly definicent 'bottom 6' issue that we had last year.

[jonesy]

Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait

[jackal]

Jonsey good call and that is why we are in no rush to rush Max in.
What Max can do is play on smaller forwards as well and can run off his man OK although his foot skills are not as good as some. Raph Goddard and Gilbert are three of the best 'utilities' in the comp and adding Max gives us another Dimension. Question is why drop someone when you are 9 zip?!

[SainterK]

Your criticism of Zac is based on how many games you have seen him live? Cabbage!!!


FFS give it up before you completely embarrass yourself with your complete lack of knowledge of the game

What do you mean before he embarrasses himself.

The kid is clueless. But what do you expect from someone who hasn't even seen one single game in 2009

No effing idea apart from what a Tv screen shows him.

PMSL at this cabbage.

Pathetic and clueless to critisise a player everyone (well everyone who actually attends) can see is playing great football and smashing his direct opponents every single game.

If this cabbage had a complete view of the ground he would see that once the zone has been beaten the opposition has a clear run through the square and has to deliver long into the forward fifty. This is what the defensive setup demands. This means that the defense has to go man on man or give the defending back a chopout.

So much for the airchair experts critic on how the ball gets down to our backline

But hey only so much you can see on tellie

thank you for calling me a kid...im also a cabbage

He's a cabbage patch kid....

[Iceman234]

We are 9 zip.

Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and enjoy yourself. I know nothing about you except your big, 20's and live in Brisbane based on posts. Iceman234 I believe is a family man but not certain.

Why not enjoy 10 zip together? We are all Saints supporters .

Iceman234 probably holds his own in the "big" stakes too....

And yes, we are all Saints, about to go 10 zip, and have a ripping FB holding down a possie we didn't think he would have, 12 weeks ago.

Let's enjoy it.

[st.byron]

Did you see his performance in the 1998 finals? If not, then shut up moron. Respect is to whoever is the coach at the time, especially on game day. The W/L ratio in games that he has played in is less than 50%. No surprise for me. Zac's batting at 100 at the moment, fortunately a big surprise for me.

Am astonished that you're hanging another piece of shyte around Max's neck ( now he's responsible for having a W/L ratio less than 50%) to go with calling him a one trick pony. How quickly some forget the service and leadership given to this club by committed long term players.
You can grind whatever axes you have about Max and trot out whatever direct personal abuse you like mate- it doesn't change the fact that Max has regularly played on and beaten the likes of Lloyd, Richo, Johno Brown, Tredrea, Fevola, Buddy et al and been the mainstay of our backline for years and years. We've struck a little vein of gold with Zac, and thank God, because if we hadn't we'd all, you included, be desperate for Max to slot straight back in.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait

no not stuff max, when fit he should come back in...hopesully

max is better in the air, dawson has been involved in a bit of kick in the backline and not really done anything under pressure (not like max did anyway and its not a slant on his performance)...

[Shaggy]

Here's a question for those wanting Max straight in. Apart from stopping the full forward from kicking goals,what else does Max offer?
I love Max's stopping abilitities,but right now as I see it,I'd have Zac in the side over Max. Dawson is better in the air,a better decision maker,and better by foot,only marginally in all those areas,but better none the less.Max is the best spoiler I've ever seen,but dawson isn't a muppet in this area either.
He might get a few hidings or drop off form in coming weeks and this might all change. However at this stage,stuff Max,he can wait

no not stuff max, when fit he should come back in...hopesully

max is better in the air, dawson has been involved in a bit of kick in the backline and not really done anything under pressure (not like max did anyway and its not a slant on his performance)...

Max is a gun but Dawson really has done a lot Max things this season. Go and have a beer with Iceman234 and watch Zac live. Regardless Max will play for us in the finals. Probably Zac also .

[Iceman234]

[ Regardless Max will play for us in the finals. Probably Zac also .

I certainly see places in the team for both of them, but what would I know after seeing only 7 of the Saints games live so far...8 after this week...wish I'd also watched them on replays too - Oh I have...

[Spinner]

Dawson > Carroll.

Didn't agree with the pick up - In fact I mocked it (Dont think I did it via Saintsational, but I told everyone how stupid a selection it was)

Proven incredible wrong.


On ya Zacky!

[Splayd]

Zac has been fantastic this year but remember he is still relatively young and inexperienced especially when holding down such a key position. I love the bloke and the intestinal fortitude he has shown in turning around his early career form and proving the doubters wrong

But...

Max is a better backman than him and has proven it over many years. It is well documented that often Sammy Fisher or Blake or whoever is close to Zak have been instructed to lend a little more than a helping hand whilst he learns his craft. (of course all full backs have this type of help). Max, I think, would need less help and therefore leave Sammy, BJ, Gram or whoever a little more free to run out of the backline and create.

Zak will be a player for many years to come and has time on his side. I am certain he will develop into one of the premier backs in the league in 3-4 years but when Buddy or Franklin come-a-knocking in a few weeks, I think I would rather Max take them.

I am a bit worried that this place will explode when and if Zac is dropped for a spell in the magoos for Max and for team balance. But make no mistake, a gem (allbeit still a little unpolished) has been uncovered in Zac. Just don't be surprised if he ends up playing in the two's a little more in the second half of the season - that is if Max's body holds up.

[bigred]

Nathan Carrol is Zac Dawson's Bitch.

[plugger66]

LOL just looked it up and it was your mate Plugger66 who actually started the thread to ask where you were....

hey plugger let's go for a beer tomorrow after work

what do you think?

Tosser call when we know you are in Brisbane and P66 is at AFL house....

AFL house in Brisbane. Got a transfer to be with sp2008. However I think he is wrong about Zac. I intially thought he couldnt play but he is improving weekly. Not sure what happens when Max is fully fit because I think both can only play deep in defence because they dont get enough of the ball to play on the half back line.

[kosifantutti23]

Thanks Perfectionst for pointing out Max is a dud because he played in more losses than wins.

Here is a list of other duds who have represented St.Kilda
Burke
Loewe
Peckett
Winmar
Jones
Thompson
Hayes
Frawley
Grant

and the biggest duds of all:
Lockett 68 wins, 115 losses
Barker 60 wins, 165 losses

[SainterK]

Zac has been fantastic this year but remember he is still relatively young and inexperienced especially when holding down such a key position. I love the bloke and the intestinal fortitude he has shown in turning around his early career form and proving the doubters wrong

But...

Max is a better backman than him and has proven it over many years. It is well documented that often Sammy Fisher or Blake or whoever is close to Zak have been instructed to lend a little more than a helping hand whilst he learns his craft. (of course all full backs have this type of help). Max, I think, would need less help and therefore leave Sammy, BJ, Gram or whoever a little more free to run out of the backline and create.

Zak will be a player for many years to come and has time on his side. I am certain he will develop into one of the premier backs in the league in 3-4 years but when Buddy or Franklin come-a-knocking in a few weeks, I think I would rather Max take them.

I am a bit worried that this place will explode when and if Zac is dropped for a spell in the magoos for Max and for team balance. But make no mistake, a gem (allbeit still a little unpolished) has been uncovered in Zac. Just don't be surprised if he ends up playing in the two's a little more in the second half of the season - that is if Max's body holds up.

This thread is Carroll V Dawson though, there are (unfortunately) plenty of other places where the Max V Dawson argument rages.

[Motown]

Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).

Zac's last few years with us were notable for the fact that Clarkson did everything possible to avoid playing him. Just couldn't bring himself to give him another go, for some reason, regardless of Zac's form in the magoos and our injuries. This year karma caught up and our spate of injuries exposed our lack of tall, defensive stoppers while Zac's gone from strength to strength when given the opportunity and support of the coach.

Clarkson hasn't made many blues, but his handling of Dawson's career is probably the most prominent. At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Clearly an inspired pick and Dawson is AFL quality. Would guarentee that if he was still at the hawks would have played nearly all if not all games this year with the loss of Gilham Birchall and Croad (way better than Murphy for example).

Zac's last few years with us were notable for the fact that Clarkson did everything possible to avoid playing him. Just couldn't bring himself to give him another go, for some reason, regardless of Zac's form in the magoos and our injuries. This year karma caught up and our spate of injuries exposed our lack of tall, defensive stoppers while Zac's gone from strength to strength when given the opportunity and support of the coach.

Clarkson hasn't made many blues, but his handling of Dawson's career is probably the most prominent. At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.

he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etc

murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy

[Motown]

he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etc

Really? You must've been watching a different reserves side to me =P

The reserves side I saw had Dawson mostly KPB with Markovic. When we were getting belted (often), he swung forward on occasion to give a focal point up forward if our young key forwards were struggling. Into the ruck on occasion, too, if needed. He did get one bag of eight playing forward against the Bendigo reserves/U19s when Essendon had their horror injury run, though, but he played back generally.

Which reserves side were you watching?

murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy

Tom Murphy is a mid-sized stopper who typically plays on the likes of Medhurst, Betts, Johnson and Murphy. He's hopelessly outclassed in the air as a makeshift KPB, a position he wouldn't have to play if we had adequate backup there.

You're really determined to downrate Zac, aren't you? That's fine, you can join all those Hawks fans who wrote him off as "not AFL standard", too. It's by no means an exclusive club.