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Motown wrote:.....At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.
Thanks for your post Motown, it's always nice to see the occasional op supporter with some positive (and considered) words. Having never seen him play before this year, I am quite prepared to accept your assessment of Zac. Of course, the Hawks backline last year was such a tight and little interrupted unit that new comers would have been hard pressed to break into it. And it's probably Croad's position that he would have had to capture for team balance reasons. Not easy if he is fit.
The other nice thing about Zac is that he seems to really enjoy his footy, something we die hard supporters could learn from him.
Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etc
Really? You must've been watching a different reserves side to me =P
The reserves side I saw had Dawson mostly KPB with Markovic. When we were getting belted (often), he swung forward on occasion to give a focal point up forward if our young key forwards were struggling. Into the ruck on occasion, too, if needed. He did get one bag of eight playing forward against the Bendigo reserves/U19s when Essendon had their horror injury run, though, but he played back generally.
Which reserves side were you watching?
Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy
Tom Murphy is a mid-sized stopper who typically plays on the likes of Medhurst, Betts, Johnson and Murphy. He's hopelessly outclassed in the air as a makeshift KPB, a position he wouldn't have to play if we had adequate backup there.
You're really determined to downrate Zac, aren't you? That's fine, you can join all those Hawks fans who wrote him off as "not AFL standard", too. It's by no means an exclusive club.
i believe Motown would know what he is talking about with regards to Murphy and zac in the vfl.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:he played forward for all of last year in the reserves so it's hardly karma...maybe they thought he had potential there instead of down back where he tried and it didnt come off, regardless of age and size they might have believed it to be a non-factor in comparison to footy smarts etc
Really? You must've been watching a different reserves side to me =P
The reserves side I saw had Dawson mostly KPB with Markovic. When we were getting belted (often), he swung forward on occasion to give a focal point up forward if our young key forwards were struggling. Into the ruck on occasion, too, if needed. He did get one bag of eight playing forward against the Bendigo reserves/U19s when Essendon had their horror injury run, though, but he played back generally.
Which reserves side were you watching?
Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:murphy is better than zac, if zac positions were swapped we would be singing the praises of murphy
Tom Murphy is a mid-sized stopper who typically plays on the likes of Medhurst, Betts, Johnson and Murphy. He's hopelessly outclassed in the air as a makeshift KPB, a position he wouldn't have to play if we had adequate backup there.
You're really determined to downrate Zac, aren't you? That's fine, you can join all those Hawks fans who wrote him off as "not AFL standard", too. It's by no means an exclusive club.
my bad, i only followed what i read about zac in the media as to do with where he was playing
Motown wrote:
Clarkson hasn't made many blues, but his handling of Dawson's career is probably the most prominent. At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.
Interesting to see those thoughts coming from a Hawks supporter (100% agree, but I've only seen the beginning and the end, not the whole journey with Zac).
Dawson has doubtlessly benefited through solid support in the Saints back 6, and is clearly better now (confidence) than he was in the opening rounds... however, given the Hawks need for tall defenders, to have Dawson perform a this level for the Saints stands out in Clarkson's otherwise pristine record... especially given that early on, he was so persistent and vocal in his support of Zac. Strange to say that a coach who has regularly done his own thing in the face of criticism and been proven right perhaps needs to trust his first instincts more.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
Motown wrote:.....At any rate, it's all good for you guys and I'm happy to see Zac given a real go and experiencing success at it, to boot.
Thanks for your post Motown, it's always nice to see the occasional op supporter with some positive (and considered) words. Having never seen him play before this year, I am quite prepared to accept your assessment of Zac. Of course, the Hawks backline last year was such a tight and little interrupted unit that new comers would have been hard pressed to break into it. And it's probably Croad's position that he would have had to capture for team balance reasons. Not easy if he is fit.
The other nice thing about Zac is that he seems to really enjoy his footy, something we die hard supporters could learn from him.
Zac seems to have made an impact on heaps of people outside of the Saints, people genuinely want to wish him well.
ohwhenthesaints! wrote:Zac seems to have made an impact on heaps of people outside of the Saints, people genuinely want to wish him well.
There's an order of magnitude more who are waiting for him to fall over. Having him succeed in any fashion would call into question their football judgement.
perfectionist wrote:
Did you actually see any of these players? If you did, and you are equating Zac Dawson with Darrell Baldock, Nicky Winwar, Ian Stewart and John McIntosh, then I rest my case. I saw them all, and Zac Dawson is NOT their equal - YET. It's one thing to have had an illustrious career of 100 games interstate when there were no interstate AFL teams and another to transfer from one club, the premiership club, to another in 2009. I would have thought that even a complete idiot could appreciate that. But clearly, I was wrong. The desire to elevate Max to one of the Saints GREATS in some people's eyes clearly blinds them to the on going truth. He has been, and will be if recalled, part of the problem and not part of the solution. If he comes back we will lose the important games. He can't take a contested mark ( Zac has taken more in nine games than Max has taken in nine years), he can't kick (they are all sixty metre kicks - thirty up and thirty down) and he can't run. He can punch, but a one trick pony is of no use in modern footy - no, I'm wrong - a one trick pony has never been any good in footy. He can sook, we saw that in the 1998 semi final, which we lost by few points. I would have sacked him then, I make no bones about. The moment a player, on match day, questions the authority of a coach, then it's Hasta la vista baby.
You remember the coach - Stan Alves, the bloke who got us to our first GF in 27 years and was sacked by the Board at the end of the 1998 almost entirely because Max said he didn't like him. Stan was a great one on the skills and discipline of the game. No wonder he and Max did not see eye to eye. Luckily for us, Tim Watson was then appointed coach, then Malcolm Blight, then Grant Thomas, then.....Oh well, I suppose history has caught up with us. Thank goodness. Give Max the Axe!
Are you a troll or just an idiot? One of the best clubmen and defenders we've ever been lucky to have, you aren't worthy of licking his boots...
ohwhenthesaints! wrote:Zac seems to have made an impact on heaps of people outside of the Saints, people genuinely want to wish him well.
There's an order of magnitude more who are waiting for him to fall over. Having him succeed in any fashion would call into question their football judgement.
I can imagine the powers at be at Hawthorn may see it in a slightly different light, I can only imagine the response on here if he was one of ours and we let him go.
Harvey To Hayes wrote:...Are you a troll or just an idiot? One of the best clubmen and defenders we've ever been lucky to have, you aren't worthy of licking his boots...
I suggest that you respond to the substance of a post rather than just hurl abuse, it's too easy an out. If you did not see the game in question or are unaware of the issues raised, then you should acknowledge that too.
Harvey To Hayes wrote:...Are you a troll or just an idiot? One of the best clubmen and defenders we've ever been lucky to have, you aren't worthy of licking his boots...
I suggest that you respond to the substance of a post rather than just hurl abuse, it's too easy an out. If you did not see the game in question or are unaware of the issues raised, then you should acknowledge that too.
I was there at that game and I repeat my original statement. Nothing in that rubbish post of yours warranted an analytical response. Disgusting...
perfectionist wrote:
I suggest that you respond to the substance of a post rather than just hurl abuse, it's too easy an out. If you did not see the game in question or are unaware of the issues raised, then you should acknowledge that too.
You're a hypocrite. You posted the following : " ......see his performance in the 1998 finals? If not, then shut up moron."
Why don't you take your own advice and stick to the debate without the abuse.
Just watched the replay on Fox thisarvo and apart from his general defensive work , which was great, On two specific ocaisions Zac showed tremendous courage in fearlessly bumping Lions opponents with bone crunching tenacity, and I thought wow this kid has another string to his bow here!
I remember offering some constructive criticism in a post after his second or third match , mentioning he played well but suggesting he was a little loose with his opponent in a couple of passages, and suggested SOS would work on that!
Which brings me to highlight the great work SOS has no doubt been doing (with Zac, in particular , and the back-line in general) and I think he's been fortunate in this regard, doubting if he would have developed so well over this short time frame had he still been at Waverley!
perfectionist wrote:
I suggest that you respond to the substance of a post rather than just hurl abuse, it's too easy an out. If you did not see the game in question or are unaware of the issues raised, then you should acknowledge that too.
You're a hypocrite. You posted the following : " ......see his performance in the 1998 finals? If not, then shut up moron."
Why don't you take your own advice and stick to the debate without the abuse.
It is a HUGE plus for our current fortunes that we have been able to pick up two capable players....
Ray was more expensive...but both are looking to be bargains.
Having Zac has meant that Gilbert and Sam have been kept free to play more attcking roles.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
It is a HUGE plus for our current fortunes that we have been able to pick up two capable players....
Ray was more expensive...but both are looking to be bargains.
Having Zac has meant that Gilbert and Sam have been kept free to play more attcking roles.
according to supercoach, ray hasn't done much in the past 3 games.
It is a HUGE plus for our current fortunes that we have been able to pick up two capable players....
Ray was more expensive...but both are looking to be bargains.
Having Zac has meant that Gilbert and Sam have been kept free to play more attcking roles.
according to supercoach, ray hasn't done much in the past 3 games.
86, 94 and 81... perfectly respectable scores, especially considering the arbitrary timeline leaves out his 124 against the bulldogs. His average of 97.5 puts him 8th on the team and 33rd amongst midfielders overall.
he's up over 30 points on his average the last 3 years with the bulldogs, and looking the goods in general. Occasionally wish I'd had the faith prior to rd 1, as he's over ~120k total value increase (though only briefly, coming into '09 he was exactly the kind of player I avoid on SC, outside without the disposal to make up for it). Wouldn't be expecting to have him by start of round 18, but would have been a fine round 1 starter.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
