Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
JABBER wrote:umpires can only play what they see lenny was a 50m for holding the player up after a mark you have to wait on the umpire to call play on in todays game there was a lot of off the ball blocking
Please refer to the decision involving Bakes two weeks ago. Same circumstance, completely different outcome.
I was mystified when a North player actively prevented a saints player from returning the ball to a fellow saints player so he could take a free kick and the umpires let it go?
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons; for you are a quick and tasty morsel.
The free kick count is a useless stat. You can't expect both teams to infringe the same amount of times.
I didn't see the game today, but the 50m against Lenny is correct as the umpire had not called play on. Technically as soon as you move off your direct line over the mark, it is play on - but only on the umpires call.
I umpire footy and it is bloody hard gig. There is a lot of things you've gotta be on the lookout for and have to make the call right there. The AFL umpires are incredible in the way they know the rules. The Laws of Aust. Football makes football more confusing and they have to know those 70pages back to front. Sure umpires get things wrong, but so do the players. You can't pay what you don't see. You miss things. Sometimes to catch a part of something that you don't see what actually happened.
saint66au wrote:
Farren Ray, tracking the ball to the boundary...
I saw that on replay a few times and I actually agreed with the umpire. It was a strict interpretation of the rule, but I thought it was correct. Ray's mistake was taking possession of the footy. If he'd just finessed it over the line it would have been a simple throw-in. But he took possession and then just dropped it as he was tackled over the line. Made no attempt to get rid of it legitimately. Fair call IMO.
Really? Ray didn't "drop" it, the ball was dislodged in the tackle. That same situation, with teams reversed, was paid as "holding the man" to the Roos earlier in the game. Occurred on the broadcast side of the ground.
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons; for you are a quick and tasty morsel.
saintbrat wrote:play on to advantage in saints forward 50- except there was NO advantage.........................
The wistle was blown so the ball had to come back
That was a different incident. Montagna running in to kick an easy goal when it was a free to Kosi. I thought that was a good call. Two North Melbourne players stopped when the whistle blew. And you can still call advantage after the whistle blows, they do it all the time. That's why the rule is rubbish.
Saintbrat was talking about another incident where we had a free 30m out in front of goal and the umpire called play on despite the Saint with the ball (Jones?) being surrounded by the opposition.
Stuart Wenn was by far the worst offender. If there was a free paid in North's forward 50, you could be pretty certain it was Wenn (no. 22) paying it.
You could see the pain etched on his face when he had to pay Grammy that free kick in OUR forward 50 in the last quarter. The North player took possession, jogged backwards waiting for a teammate to present, then went sideways. Plenty of time to dispose of the ball but he didn't. Grammy chased him down and laid the tackle. At that point, the whistle should have blown and the free kick been paid, but Wenn sat back and proceeded to give the North player a good 5 seconds more to try and get the ball out of the tackle!
It was only when it was clear Grammy had pinned him perfectly that he reluctantly blew the whistle and paid the free.
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons; for you are a quick and tasty morsel.
No doubt they didnt give us a fair go. As AD played for North he sent a directive to stuff us up. There was no way the umpires just made mistakes accidentialy
Grimfang wrote:
Really? Ray didn't "drop" it, the ball was dislodged in the tackle. That same situation, with teams reversed, was paid as "holding the man" to the Roos earlier in the game. Occurred on the broadcast side of the ground.
Yep the ball was dislodged in the tackle, you're right. I didn't explain the way I saw it clearly. The problem was that he took possession of the footy and made no legitimate attempt to get rid of it. He was tackled and in not disposing of it correctly in the tackle, was pinged.
plugger66 wrote:No doubt they didnt give us a fair go. As AD played for North he sent a directive to stuff us up. There was no way the umpires just made mistakes accidentialy
Yep that's right. They all receive their encrypted instructions as to who they're to favour from AFL house on Friday night with strict directives to not let their deliberate bias show. Whoever's playing North is always on the wrong end of the stick because that's who Demetriou played for.
plugger66 wrote:No doubt they didnt give us a fair go. As AD played for North he sent a directive to stuff us up. There was no way the umpires just made mistakes accidentialy
Glad that you've finally seen the light!
I reckon the umpires didn't show that they had a feel for the game today. My gripe was Roo's disallowed mark earlyish in the 1st Q, not that he would have kicked a goal from ~45m, but not long after it went up their end & they goaled, so it was significant penalty.
Grimfang wrote:Stuart Wenn was by far the worst offender. If there was a free paid in North's forward 50, you could be pretty certain it was Wenn (no. 22) paying it.
You could see the pain etched on his face when he had to pay Grammy that free kick in OUR forward 50 in the last quarter. The North player took possession, jogged backwards waiting for a teammate to present, then went sideways. Plenty of time to dispose of the ball but he didn't. Grammy chased him down and laid the tackle. At that point, the whistle should have blown and the free kick been paid, but Wenn sat back and proceeded to give the North player a good 5 seconds more to try and get the ball out of the tackle!
It was only when it was clear Grammy had pinned him perfectly that he reluctantly blew the whistle and paid the free.
I even saw tears in Wenn's eyes when he paid that free.
When he set the mark I could lip read him apologising to North player.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Last week Michael Voss went through the appropriate channels to complain about the attrocious umpiring in the Brisbane v North Melbourne game.
This week it was our turn to be on the receiving end of the AFL's support for North Melbourne.
Voss lost 4 points last night as the umpires extracted their revenge.
So lets not complain.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
ace wrote:Last week Michael Voss went through the appropriate channels to complain about the attrocious umpiring in the Brisbane v North Melbourne game.
This week it was our turn to be on the receiving end of the AFL's support for North Melbourne.
Voss lost 4 points last night as the umpires extracted their revenge.
So lets not complain.
Your posts are becoming less and less valid whilst you go on with rubbish about the AFL favouring North.
Saints-06-Premiers you are an umpire you admit you make mistakes but you do your best to umpire with fairness and integrity.
That is all football supporters want to see from AFL umpires.
But that is not what they see from AFL umpires.
They see umpires manipulating games with unbalanced decisions, they see umpires punishing teams because their coach complained about atrocious umpiring.
Voss made it public that he was complaining to the AFL about umpiring in the Brisbane v North Melbourne (surprise, surprise) game.
We all know what happened against Fremantle when Thomas complained.
Last night we saw what happened to Brisbane when they complained.
The AFL umpires are a law unto themselves, they feel free to cheat whenever they are challenged.
I dare say you have more integrity on your small finger's finger nail than some AFL umpires.
Last edited by ace on Sun 07 Jun 2009 9:40am, edited 1 time in total.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
ace wrote:Saints-06-Premiers you are an umpire you admit you make mistakes but you do your best to umpire with fairness and integrity.
That is all football supporters want to see from AFL umpires.
But that is not what they see from AFL umpires.
They see umpires manipulating games with unbalanced decisions, they see umpires punishing teams because their coach complained about atrocious umpiring.
We all know what happened against Fremantle when Thomas complained.
Last night we saw what happened to Brisbane when they complained.
The AFL umpires are a law unto themselves, they feel free to cheat whenever they are challenged.
I dare say you have more integrity on your small finger's finger nail than some AFL umpires.
My beef has nothing to do with mistaken/wrong/incredible decisions paid.
It was the latitude given to NM in their tactcis employed on Dal, Joey and BJ.
They were physically manhandled, scragged, held, pushed at every contest and the 3 blind mice didn't even look for it let alone see the tactics being employed.
I wonder if Judd or Ablett had received that kind of 'shinboner spirit' treatment what would be the outcry?
There is no doubt that all Clubs employ taggers to harass the oppositions' main ball players, but, IMO, what NM did yesterday (even from what I could see on tv) was well beyond the rules of the game.
My brother who was at the game tells me that BJ was 'smashed' from pillar to post and no wonder he seemed to get angry. He was offered little/no protection from the umpires who just allowed this to continue all day.
Next
Does anybody know if the Umpires' Advisors tell the umpires at half time about their mistakes?
It seems to me that Roo receives far more free kicks in the second half of games than in the first half and yet the illegal contact/holding/pushing on him is at every contest, not just later in the game.
Do the Umpires just not see it in the first half and wait for instructions, or so the defenders get more tired in the second half and make the infringements more blatant?
That green would not be the umpires shirts would it.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Quixote wrote:Was an absolute f****** joke. For at least the first half North got a dream run with those donkeys.
They got an even better dream run against Brisbane the previous weekend.
Brisbane complained.
Look what happened this week to Brisbane.
Chk Chk Boom.
Another win for the umpires.
Again.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Quixote wrote:Was an absolute f****** joke. For at least the first half North got a dream run with those donkeys.
They got an even better dream run against Brisbane the previous weekend.
Brisbane complained.
Look what happened this week to Brisbane.
Chk Chk Boom.
Another win for the umpires.
Again.
saintbrat wrote:play on to advantage in saints forward 50- except there was NO advantage.........................
The wistle was blown so the ball had to come back
It's whether the play is continuous or not, not whether the whistle is blown.
My main beef was with the frees to Adam Simpson who took possession and ducked his head. Others who tried this missed out - as they should. If a player is bending down to pick up the ball then they should get a free if taken high. If a player ducks but is recklessly or dangerously taken high then they should still get a free. But if the high contact is as the result of ducking then it's either a ball up if there was no prior opportunity and the player tries to dispose of the ball or a free for holding the ball if there was either prior opportunity or incorrect disposal.
On the Lenny Hayes one, you will often hear the umpires say that although the player played on, they didn't call it so it's 50 metres (as in Lenny's case). On the other hand, this is often ignored by umpires if a player does something silly (Brendon Goddard and Aaron Davey last week) or if he is Steven Baker ( two weeks ago).
Quixote wrote:Was an absolute f****** joke. For at least the first half North got a dream run with those donkeys.
They got an even better dream run against Brisbane the previous weekend.
Brisbane complained.
Look what happened this week to Brisbane.
Chk Chk Boom.
Another win for the umpires.
Again.
Not true, Plugger merely got out of bed on the wrong side due to a hangover.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Some people just don't want to see what is in front of them.
All the umpires need to do to be professional is keep it consistant. It doesn't matter if they apply a strict or loose interpretation of the rules as long as it goes both ways.
For example, last week the umps seemed to have a strange idea of how far a ball needed to be kicked before a mark could be paid, but it went both ways so there was no need to get one's knickers in a knot.
Yesterday, however, one could be forgiven for thinking that the rule book contained refernce to the colours of the respective jumpers. I'm not afraid the say that vesterdays umpiring performance was very POOR. Hopefully, the umps will be pulled aside by their "coach" and told that they need to do better.
