Bakes.....

[borderbarry]

Steven Baker, I have been a long time fan of his, but I am worried by his current form. 6 possessions yesterday. How long can he stay in the side at this rate?
Also Dawson. Had more goals kicked on him than anybody. Should he make way for Max?

[Thinline]

Would be incredibly harsh to shunt Zac. One sour game among pretty much a teamload of them, remember... He's done FA wrong all year.

The question re Bakes is'what is an acceptable number of possessions?' Given the role he plays - back half tagger, in and under, grunter - he ain't ever gonna get to 20. So is 12-15 genuine touches acceptable? How do you measure his worth?

With Dempster clearly in Lyon's mind, and with Max to come back in, you'd have to think Baker's is the wobbly spot.

[rodgerfox]

Baker appeared to be tagging Stenglein. He only had 7 touches.

Bakes used to be incredibly 'sure' with the footy, but currently he seems ultra keen to off load it.

He was beaten for pace too at one point yesterday, which is odd for him. He went with Aaron Davey for pace in the final at the G in 2006.

Maybe he's still not 100% right.

[Spinner]

Baker appeared to be tagging Stenglein. He only had 7 touches.

Bakes used to be incredibly 'sure' with the footy, but currently he seems ultra keen to off load it.

He was beaten for pace too at one point yesterday, which is odd for him. He went with Aaron Davey for pace in the final at the G in 2006.

Maybe he's still not 100% right.

Tagging Stenglien?

I thought he was a tagger himself, and was tagging Gilbert.....

[rodgerfox]

Baker appeared to be tagging Stenglein. He only had 7 touches.

Bakes used to be incredibly 'sure' with the footy, but currently he seems ultra keen to off load it.

He was beaten for pace too at one point yesterday, which is odd for him. He went with Aaron Davey for pace in the final at the G in 2006.

Maybe he's still not 100% right.

Tagging Stenglien?

I thought he was a tagger himself, and was tagging Gilbert.....

Maybe Bakes was used to break that tag? He did seem to be paying him quite a bit of attention.

[Bernard Shakey]

Unfortunately I think Bakes is no longer in our best 22.

He is too slow, makes bad decisions and his disposal is no good.

I would think this is his last year and I'm not sure he will be a premiership player.

[jonesy]

If Steve is part of the September plans then he is one who needs a spell before hand,doubt Lyon will give him one though. He's a player who's been asked to play injured when others wouldn't of over the past 2 years and now it's catching up.

Dawson plays ONE ordinary game and your calling for him to be dropped? Yet R.Clarke has played a squillion ordinary games and you jump in defence of him and call people racist for bagging him. Perplexing

Most goals kicked on him you say...he is the fullback, wouldn't every fullback in each side have the most goals kicked against them?

[reincarnated]

Baker appeared to be tagging Stenglein. He only had 7 touches.

Bakes used to be incredibly 'sure' with the footy, but currently he seems ultra keen to off load it.

He was beaten for pace too at one point yesterday, which is odd for him. He went with Aaron Davey for pace in the final at the G in 2006.

Maybe he's still not 100% right.

Tagging Stenglien?

I thought he was a tagger himself, and was tagging Gilbert.....

Maybe Bakes was used to break that tag? He did seem to be paying him quite a bit of attention.

Baker was not tagging Stenglien he was tagging one of the 6 WCE players Reincarnated had no clue who they were

[Ghost Like]

Bakes is an interesting one for mine, great servant and all that and now that the great man has retired there is no one more deserving of a flag left at the club (besides Max).

What I find interesting is that in a defence that is tall, yet quite mobile and versatile, we have people who believe we need a smaller defender for the small forwards. However on Sunday the most dangerous small forward was Le Cras and Ross preferred to man him up with Raph, who only had one goal kicked by Le Cras on him and that was due to a St Kilda turnover that had Raph caught out.

Bakes is not in my best 22 on current form, sure he takes his turn to put his body on the line and lay a tackle but then so do the other defenders as that's expected and unnegotiable. Bakes is struggling for pace, touch & touches and for our only small man in defence he adds nothing to our run from there which increases the pressure on whether we can fit Dawson, Max & Blake in the same defence.

People say we're a different side this year with Bakes back in there. I suggest we're a different side this year than Bakes has experienced before. The benefit for Bakes is that we're now a side with an uncompromising style, something ideally suited to Bake's best football.

I'll be interested to see who Ross chooses for Bakes to play on this week.

FWIW my back six would be:

Max Dawson Dempster
Fisher Blake Gilbert

[vacuous space]

What I find interesting is that in a defence that is tall, yet quite mobile and versatile, we have people who believe we need a smaller defender for the small forwards. However on Sunday the most dangerous small forward was Le Cras and Ross preferred to man him up with Raph, who only had one goal kicked by Le Cras on him and that was due to a St Kilda turnover that had Raph caught out.

LeCras is more of a Subiaco small than a crumber. He takes a lot of marks on leads and often plays as the FF option for the Eagles. He quite routinely draws taller opponents that reason. I think Bakes spent some time on him in our first game against them. It's not the right matchup. LeCras is more Medhurst than Milney. It's the same with Porp. He's almost certainly going to draw one of our taller defenders because he's so good overhead.

Ideally, we should have one guy in the back six who can shut down a dangerous ground level player. I don't think it's an absolute necessity though. Geelong's back six has held up well without a genuine small shutdown player for a while. Since most smalls push up the ground these days, talls on smalls works pretty well.

Time may have caught up with Baker. I think he's safe for now, but there's a lot of pressure on his spot. I certainly liked having him out there against Geelong though.

[saintly_safes]

Love Bakes like a brother & hope the selection team give him another gig to prove himself but he is skating on very thin ice at present & if he doesnt do somthing special in the next few rounds he is on borrowed time.

[aussierules0k]

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Love Bakes like a brother & hope the selection team give him another gig to prove himself but he is skating on very thin ice at present & if he doesnt do somthing special in the next few rounds he is on borrowed time.

I feel this may be pretty much right. Unless he's really stopping guys that we don't really see, he's not giving us much run and carry, or good disposal out of defence, at all. I was thrilled to see him back, earlier in the year, but now we hardly see him.
I expect they'll continue to pick him this year, but after that it may be a tough call for them, with the game getting quicker by the year.
Whatever the case is, he's been brilliant for us and has gotten the best out of himself.

[jk23]

I think he has changed the way he plays due to getting rubbed out for all those weeks, he hesitates and is more careful so he does not give the umps any excuse to report him...

[Gurgman]

Yes we have won 15 straight but i think its time Bakes has a spell , when he does get the ball the first thing he does is want to go backwards , he will get beaten 8/10 overhead marking contests and has lost a few yards which is too be expected .
I watch teams like Colingwood which we pumped ( they had all there best forwards out ) and i think we are just to top heavy down back and are not mobile enough ,
Just my views

[SydneySainter]

Steven Baker, I have been a long time fan of his, but I am worried by his current form. 6 possessions yesterday. How long can he stay in the side at this rate?
Also Dawson. Had more goals kicked on him than anybody. Should he make way for Max?

Zac didn't play a great game, but nor was he towled up. Everyone has a rusty game, just ask Rooey, Kosi, Lenny and Bally!

[asiu]

dont u reckon zac could be getting tired

(big ask for a young body to go hard all season)

[loris]

Baker appeared to be tagging Stenglein. He only had 7 touches.

You are correct there for at least some stages of the game RF that I observed.

Bakes was running with Stenglein when the Eagles were attacking to the City end of the ground..... that is the end we Saints supporters were sitting at.

However when you are sitting at ground level looking into the sun it is very difficult to see all the run withs when the play is up the other end of the ground, especially when they are in the shade of the stand.


Also they both went to the interchange bench together (Bakes after Stenglien) at one stage.

So when the two of them came down my clear viewing end of play they were definitely on each other at least five or six times RF. I though at the time it was a starnge match up...two taggers on each other. Bloke sitting beside me commented on it also when his friend asked who it was that Baker was on and what a strange match up it was.

[plugger66]

cakes and biscuits.

[saintsRrising]

we have people who believe we need a smaller defender for the small forwards.

No...we have people in the main that believe we need defenders who can play on small forwards.....as several likely opponents have more than one.

Of our taller defenders Gilbert, Max, Dempster can all cover smalls...

Raph is medium sized....as is Miles if promoted (which now does not seem so lilely). Ray is also medium sized who can covera small and has been used for this purpose.

Bakes is our only really small defender.

In theory Gram should be able too...but he does seem to be able to be close checking enough.

[BakesFan]

Ask not how many possesions Bakes got, ask how many he stopped the op from getting. Bummer we don't have those stats handy.

All I know is Bakes gets sent off every game with the blood rule... that's a good stat.

100% correct.. no-one works harder off the ball.
He'll be a big part of us winning a Flag. He's a crucial inclusion in a Finals team.
I'd drop Raph, Grammy, McEvoy and Eddy from a Finals side before even thinking about leaving Bakes out............

But in the end it'll be RL's call, and I happy about that.

[Bernard Shakey]

Ask not how many possesions Bakes got, ask how many he stopped the op from getting. Bummer we don't have those stats handy.

All I know is Bakes gets sent off every game with the blood rule... that's a good stat. ;) :)

100% correct.. no-one works harder off the ball.
He'll be a big part of us winning a Flag. He's a crucial inclusion in a Finals team.
I'd drop Raph, Grammy, McEvoy and Eddy from a Finals side before even thinking about leaving Bakes out............

But in the end it'll be RL's call, and I happy about that.

Take of the rose coloured glasses, he's just about finished.

[BakesFan]

Take of the rose coloured glasses, he's just about finished.

Obviously RL doesn't think so...and I'll take his opinion over yours any day of the week.

[Thinline]

Take of the rose coloured glasses, he's just about finished.

Obviously RL doesn't think so...and I'll take his opinion over yours any day of the week.

Perhaps Ross's spectacles are tinted rosy on account of the amount of blood Baker spills each week... He must have lost litres of the stuff this year...

[Con Gorozidis]

bakes has lost a yard and could be a liability. main issue is he is our only small defender. and these days most oppositions have 2 or 3 small forwards.

so i think we maybe stick with him.