Dean Greig on Raph and Luke

[derby Street]

[quote="saint patrick"]As a very good ex player he has a right to his opinion Solar and some credibility IMO...you obviously don't agree and thats your right as well.

Steady on St Paddy - we are guilty of building our former players up - BUT Dean Greig a VERY GOOD good ex player give me a break. I would say Nathan Burke, the great one, Buckets, Nicky etc were very good ex players and you don't hear them bucketing the club.

[Leo.J]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

[satchmo]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

[Leo.J]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

Does he have a membership?

[satchmo]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

Does he have a membership?

Not sure, but I'll bet John Bonney does. I'd be more interested in his opinion than Dean Greigs.

[saint patrick]

As a very good ex player he has a right to his opinion Solar and some credibility IMO...you obviously don't agree and thats your right as well.

Steady on St Paddy - we are guilty of building our former players up - BUT Dean Greig a VERY GOOD good ex player give me a break. I would say Nathan Burke, the great one, Buckets, Nicky etc were very good ex players and you don't hear them bucketing the club.

In my opinion he was a lot better than average...for any number of reasons he burned brightly for just a short time..remember him being as hard a nails and had good slills as well.Irrelevant in the end.His opinion is just that and for me he is entilted to it

Met him once and he was humble and respectful person.I won't listen to second hand stories re Dean.I take everyone as I find them.

[Middo]

As a very good ex player he has a right to his opinion Solar and some credibility IMO...you obviously don't agree and thats your right as well.

Steady on St Paddy - we are guilty of building our former players up - BUT Dean Greig a VERY GOOD good ex player give me a break. I would say Nathan Burke, the great one, Buckets, Nicky etc were very good ex players and you don't hear them bucketing the club.

In my opinion he was a lot better than average...for any number of reasons he burned brightly for just a short time..remember him being as hard a nails and had good slills as well.Irrelevant in the end.His opinion is just that and for me he is entilted to it

Met him once and he was humble and respectful person.I won't listen to second hand stories re Dean.I take everyone as I find them.

Opinion's are like arsehole.s we all have one but is he a member ???

[spert]

The club were reported to be pleased with Raph's prelim, and although he had a couple of clangers in the GF, he didn't do too bad in the end and got his hands on the ball compared to a couple of our forwards. Just remember how many times the ball went into our forward line in the GF and you will see where the problem was. Looking forward to a good 2010 from Raph as he develops further. I still remember people on this forum calling for Goddard to be traded a few years back- another player who has developed slowly into a top player.

[saintly]

The club were reported to be pleased with Raph's prelim, and although he had a couple of clangers in the GF, he didn't do too bad in the end and got his hands on the ball compared to a couple of our forwards. Just remember how many times the ball went into our forward line in the GF and you will see where the problem was. Looking forward to a good 2010 from Raph as he develops further. I still remember people on this forum calling for Goddard to be traded a few years back- another player who has developed slowly into a top player.

besides the point the guy has only played 50 games.

another full season, and he should still improve.

[Milton66]

Regarding Greig's comment about the phone call from Ross t Luke...

Has it ever occured that Lyon maybe got wind of Luke's pending departure prior to the GF?????

[spert]

RL probably wished he had a forward he could have brought on in the GF -Ball on one leg would have contributed more than Milne in a forward pocket or even Kosi at full forward ..but it's all history now.

[Lennon]

Ross Lyon wanted to win the Premiership as much (if not more) than any of us and to suggest that he deliberately did something to diminish that possibility of winning that premiership to satisfy some personal gneda, then you have rocks in your head.

Which is not a claim I have ever made. I believe I said I don't know why it occurred. Neither do you - though you were quick to pretend that you did.

I simply pointed out that it couldn't have been both a mistake and due to medical reasons. Don't like having your arguments questioned huh? If something makes no sense, I'll say so.

To take the fact that he wasn't played in the 4th qtr as the reason he is leaving is absolutely laughable.

Are you two slow, or something?

I never said that was the reason he was leaving. I said it would have looked like more of the same to Luke Ball. I don't think anyone here can dispute that Ball was becoming more disgruntled each time he was dropped and/or his game time was limited. Not considering it's the reason he's cited for leaving the club. This is a man who no longer believes his contribution is valued at St Kilda, and to be left on the bench in the second half of a grand final after ripping it up in the first would have done nothing to alter that feeling. That's all.
You keep insisting he's really just leaving for money. Got nothing to back that claim up, though, do you? In fact you're questioning Luke Ball's word, aren't you? Slander!

FFS.

You know, I used to think you were a logical poster but on this issue you just don't get it.

None of us, including you, have any real knowledge what went on or is going on.

You choose to support the Ball Camp's version, even though it changed 3 times in 3 days this last week.
That's fine.

But purleeze. To accuse others of making things up and then do eactly that yourself.
Please provide the link that supports your statement that I highlighted.
This is nothing more than your opinion based on what you've heard/read leaked to Greg Denham.
It has absolutely no basis in fact and yet you state it as if it is common accepted knowledge.
You have fallen for the bs being peddled by Connors. Pure and simple.

How do I know it's bs?
Because things don't add up.

Connors (it had to have been either him or Ball) leaked to Denham that Collingwood was interested in Ball
Then he leaked to Denham that Collingwood had offered Ball 500k.
Then he leaked to Denham that St Kilda had offered Ball more than Collingwood so that Ball wouldn't be perceived as a mercenary.

Try to rationalize those 3 leaks logically. Whilst the first 2 make sense the 3rd make no sense. Ball was offered a new contract by St Kilda in June on significantly less money than his current contract (600k). How can a new contract highter than 500k but less than 600k be considered 'significantly less' than 600k?

Next leak to Denham:-
Ball wants more game time.
Do you really think that St Kilda would deliberately not play him if he was able to be played in their opinion?

Next leak to Denham:
Ball's position at st Kilda with Lyon is untenable.

So the Coach doesn't rate him but he is offered a new 3 year contract that is not rescinded until after Trade Week is finished - after Ball has told them he wants to go to Collingwood.

None of these leaked atatements make any logical sense to me. Maybe they do to you?

I'll let you in on a secret.
I've heard, with the same degree of knowledge as Dean Greig (3rd hand) that the senior players at the Club are LIVID with Luke Ball for what he did this week.
They feel betrayed by him and it will not be an easy thing to get them to welcome him back.

Pretty sure the official word from Ball's camp is that he wants more game time. It's certainly hardly a statement made up on the spot by me, and it has been reported by a lot of different media outlets as fact. I may have misconstrued that, but I believed it came directly from his manager, rather than a "leak"?

You and JB (well, JB at least) are convinced it's about money. That's your opinion to form.

First section I highlighted - you're making a number of assumptions there. Most notably that everything reported about a player moving clubs is leaked directly by that player and their camp and is not a rumour. There was a hell of a lot of stuff written about the Fevola trade that turned out to be BS. Just something to bear in mind.

And before you tell me that I am then choosing what I want to believe in regards to these "leaks" and disregarding what doesn't suit me, I'll say again, my impression was the game time issue had come direct from Connors.

The second section I've highlighted - If you want me to give some consideration to your 3rd hand knowledge, you'll need to give some to Greig's. Greig is actually a former St Kilda player. Who are you?


One last thing... re your condescending opening comment, "used to think you were a logical poster". I've posted a fair bit over Luke Ball, but normally I almost never post. I'd be mighty surprised if you'd formed any opinion on me at all, or was aware I existed... so do spare me the 'disappointed' inferences.

[The Fireman]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

Does he have a membership?

Yep, social club as well.

[satchmo]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

Does he have a membership?

Yep, social club as well.

Dean or Russell???

[joffaboy]

You and JB (well, JB at least) are convinced it's about money. That's your opinion to form.

Get your facts correct. I have constantly said that to believe money isn't one of the reasons is to have bought all of the Ball camp propoganda.

First section I highlighted - you're making a number of assumptions there. Most notably that everything reported about a player moving clubs is leaked directly by that player and their camp and is not a rumour. There was a hell of a lot of stuff written about the Fevola trade that turned out to be BS. Just something to bear in mind.

Think you might like to find out how stories are written by journo's and how managers get their side of the story out.

A tad niave I would think.

And before you tell me that I am then choosing what I want to believe in regards to these "leaks" and disregarding what doesn't suit me, I'll say again, my impression was the game time issue had come direct from Connors.

And whom do you reckon "leaked" the $500k contract story to Denham? Logically it would be someone who had a vested interest to negotiate up the 3 year deal the Saints had on the table at the time? Now let me think who that would have been.............

The second section I've highlighted - If you want me to give some consideration to your 3rd hand knowledge, you'll need to give some to Greig's. Greig is actually a former St Kilda player. Who are you?

Just because someone played games for the Saints over a decade ago - doesn't mean he knoes anything about the current Saints. Also he may well.

However nice to see you blinded by the celebrety of Dean Greigs name - you would believe him before you believe someone because you haven't seen them on TV?

MM clearly stated his news was third hand just like Dean Greigs. Believe it or not - thats your perogative. All I know about MM is that he is a passionate who put up the money for sponsorship for the players we have on our banner for not one cent in return - probably cost him money.

I rate people like MM. Passionate and also puts his money where his mouth is. Thst type of supporter may not mean much to you - but it does to me.

One last thing... re your condescending opening comment, "used to think you were a logical poster". I've posted a fair bit over Luke Ball, but normally I almost never post. I'd be mighty surprised if you'd formed any opinion on me at all, or was aware I existed... so do spare me the 'disappointed' inferences.

lol - but you can form an opinion on my certain views why Luke Ball left.

Hmm - must be getting vertigo up there on your high horse

[joffaboy]

I wonder if Dean Greig has a membership???

I wonder what Russell Tweedale thinks?

Does he have a membership?

Yep, social club as well.

Dean or Russell???

Dean.

Would have a SC membership because he sits on L2 and attends most home games. Passionate Saints man.

[Mr Magic]

Lennon,
Take your accusations of condesention and stick them wherever you want to.
How many of your 1350+ posts have been on Luke Ball?
10,20,30?

So 1300+ of them have been on other topics. You obviously haven't been trying too hard to hide have you?


Now do you understand the point I was making about your posts on other topics?

As for my bona fides - I have none. You can choose to accept what ai post or not. I won't lose any sleep over you disbelieveing me.

I post what I hear. Unlike some on here I don't dream up sh1t and post it.
I also don't have an axe to grind - does Dean Greig?


As for 'leaks' to Greg Denham. Not 1 article he wrote on this subject quoted Connors as his source.

In every occasion he wrote these articles he used the term 'source' or 'sources'.
I didn't go to journalism school but I would have thought that un-named sources would constitute a 'leak'?

Now I don't suppose you happened to hear Dean Bailey at about 6:45 on 3AW did you?

If you had you would have heard version #5 about Luke Ball's leaving, directly attributed to Paul Connors.

When asked by Roahan Connolly about Luke Ball he replied.

At 2 minutes past 2pm, when we knew the deal hadn't been done, we rang Paul Connors to express our interest. He went through what had happened:-

Firstly St Kilda told Luke Ball to go............

Now I've been a keen reader/listener/watcher in this whole saga and this is the first time this allegation that the Saints told Ball to go find another Club has arisen.


So now we've gone from:-
I want to go to Collingwood
St Kilda offered more money than Collingwood
I want more game time
The position is untenable
St Kilda told Ball to go.

How do you reconcile all those statements/justifications?

ANd BTW, don't believe what I posted - go find a podcast of the interview and determine it for yourself.

[joffaboy]

Firstly St Kilda told Luke Ball to go............

Is this before or after they offered him a $1 million in a three year contract?

Or was it after the leak about $500k contract at Collingwood?

Or did the coach get wind that Ball was planning to leave hence is question - "Give me one good reason why I should play you in the GF?"

Questions
Questions
Questions.

[Milton66]

Hmmm, that's an interesting point about being told "to go" by the club.

Once again, it's from Connors, so who knows?

Interesting would be to find out if they told him to go, after he refused to sign, or what.

I suspect (IMO) that the club caught wind of what was going on behind the scenes. Hence Greig's coment about the phone call.

The other question is did the club say go after the GF? Or did LB put an ultimatum to the club?

What doesn't add up is if the wanted him to go... when was the contract rescinded? After he asked to be traded, or beforehand?

Did th club say "you're outta here, the contract is off the table... where do you want to be traded to?"

Or maybe my mail was correct at the time that he was dropped because of attitude issues, which related to T.O.G and perhaps contracts??

[Mr Magic]

Firstly St Kilda told Luke Ball to go............

Is this before or after they offered him a $1 million in a three year contract?

Or was it after the leak about $500k contract at Collingwood?

Or did the coach get wind that Ball was planning to leave hence is question - "Give me one good reason why I should play you in the GF?"

Questions
Questions
Questions.

ANd here's another question for you Joffa,
On Monday all 16 Clubs had meetings with each other where names were put up of those that might be avaialable.

WHat's the odds that no news would have come out if St Kilda were 'shopping' Luke Ball?
I would venture to say that the news would have spread like wildfire if the Saints had given any inkling to any other Club that Ball was available.
Therefore the fact that no mention was made by anybody leads me to believe that it never happened.

So therefore a player who was 'told to go' was never mentioned as being avaialable?

And didn't Luke Ball's management tell the Saints on Tuesday that he wanted a trade to Collingwood?

I don't believe St Kilda told him to go, just like I don't believe the rest of this noinsense that teh Connors organization has been putting out to 'hide' the truth.

The truth, IMO, is that Connors 'screwed up' the deal when he 'shopped' his other client Darren Jolly to Collingwood.
Collingwood used the only 'currency' they had (pick 14) that would have done the deal. They chose to use it on Jolly and Ball got 'screwed'. But this is somehow St Kilda's fault.

Connors is never going to admit it.
Ball doesn't seem to want to accept it.
His family seems to just want to blame St Kilda for everything (including probably the GFC and global warming)

[Milton66]

His family seems to just want to blame St Kilda for everything (including probably the GFC and global warming)

Everyone knows that these two events were GT's fault.

[Mr Magic]

His family seems to just want to blame St Kilda for everything (including probably the GFC and global warming)

Everyone knows that these two events were GT's fault.

Escept apparently the Balls

Besides, it couldn't be GT's fault - he's a 'revered father figure' to Luke!

It must be Buters fault.

[Iceman234]

It must be Buters fault.

I can't believe it's not Butterss

[Gurgman]

Fair dinkum , some of you tossers need to take a good look at yourselfs , no doubt some of you were making out you were luke balls best friend and you knew everything about him , then when he wants out you all bag him and then Oh , when he doesnt get drafted you welcome him back saying all is forgiven , i dont agree with Deans comments on Raph but at least he has the balls to say it in public and not hide behind a pc ,

[Mr Magic]

Fair dinkum , some of you tossers need to take a good look at yourselfs , no doubt some of you were making out you were luke balls best friend and you knew everything about him , then when he wants out you all bag him and then Oh , when he doesnt get drafted you welcome him back saying all is forgiven , i dont agree with Deans comments on Raph but at least he has the balls to say it in public and not hide behind a pc ,

If you're referring to me, then I don't know Luke Ball at all. Nor have I ever claimed to know him. SO I'm not sure what you'r alleging?

All I know is what I've seen, read and heard, and IMO it's mainly been a whole heap of inconsistent crap.
Given that it all seems to be coming from the Ball side of the argument, I can only reach the conclusion that they are deliberately releasing this crap to hide what is actually going on:-

Luke wanted to go to Collingwood for a better deal than St Kilda offered and between them, Connors and Collingwood stuffed it up.

Again only my opinion.