Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
plugger66 wrote: i have no doubt at all, not in the slightest, that he left mainly because he had loft faith in his ability to guareentee a game at the Saints.
Who is guaranteed a game at any club? How could collingwood gurantee him a game, or more time on the ground?
Surely even at corruptingwood if he is injured/lame/knackered he's off the ground/team?
I think he has wanted out for a long time, but was looking for a way to do it without appearing like a selfish git. Clearly he failed in that respect.
I am pretty sure if you read my post i never mentioned the club guaranteeing him a game. I was talking about Balls ability to guarantee a game. A fair bit different I would think.
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
Moods wrote:Looks like the aftermath of that interview poss created some tension but Roo is sticking to his guns.
Link is below. Very interesting quotes from Lyon in there as well.
Lyon as always is the master of vagueness and ambiguity. He'd make a good senior public servant (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). Anyway, the thrust of the story is right: the Saints are still strong without LB.
What is vague about this?
Saints coach Ross Lyon said his team would have no problem moving on from Ball’s departure.
“I put it to bed the day he decided to leave. It is professional sport, Tony Lockett left and the club played in a grand final the year after", he said.
"I’m sure we can cope. We don’t like to lose players, but expectations on both fronts often aren’t met. When that happens, players tend to leave clubs."
Lyon said it was important to have a player’s salary correlate with their value to the team.
“We pay them accordingly. It’s really important to get the relativities right. We’d like to think (Hayes) and Roo (Riewoldt) are paid right up the top and everyone falls in behind them,â€
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief
The extent of it?
What does that mean?
Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.
I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief
The extent of it?
What does that mean?
Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.
I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.
I think you are very confused but you also know exactly what you are saying. By the way do you think coaching should or shouldnt know what their star players earn?
plugger66 wrote: i have no doubt at all, not in the slightest, that he left mainly because he had loft faith in his ability to guareentee a game at the Saints.
Who is guaranteed a game at any club? How could collingwood gurantee him a game, or more time on the ground?
Surely even at corruptingwood if he is injured/lame/knackered he's off the ground/team?
I think he has wanted out for a long time, but was looking for a way to do it without appearing like a selfish git. Clearly he failed in that respect.
I am pretty sure if you read my post i never mentioned the club guaranteeing him a game. I was talking about Balls ability to guarantee a game. A fair bit different I would think.
I'm not sure what that means, but in any case it seems to me that the problem is the difference between lukes expectations and reality.
rodgerfox wrote:[
Sounds like Lyon has input into what his players get paid.
Interesting.
Why wouldn't the coach have input on player payments? Surely if the coach feels a player is important then that is a factor in the negotiations?
Whether or not the coach is doing the negotiating he would surely have some input?
I thought the coach 'just coaches'?
Why would a coach have a say, when we have a 'List Manager', plus a team of recruitment dudes plus a Football Manager?
I thought the coach just gave the recruiters a list of the type of players he requires?
What if the 'List Manager' can't strike a deal with a player that the coach says he 'must have'? Who gets the overriding call? The coach, or the List Manager?
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief
The extent of it?
What does that mean?
Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.
I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.
I think you are very confused but you also know exactly what you are saying. By the way do you think coaching should or shouldnt know what their star players earn?
Do I think?
I think the head coach of a footy club should be in control and oversee pretty much everything.
And I believe in most clubs (if not all) this is actually what happens.
I must admit i'm surprised though, with our 'modern footy dept' that this isn't what happens.
Very surprised actually.
Which is why I get confused when I read things like "ROSS LYON TOOK US TO A GF" and so on.
If the coach just coaches, then why does Lyon's name come up in negotiations with Luke Ball and decisions over Andrew Lovett's playing career?
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief
The extent of it?
What does that mean?
Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.
I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.
I think you are very confused but you also know exactly what you are saying. By the way do you think coaching should or shouldnt know what their star players earn?
Do I think?
I think the head coach of a footy club should be in control and oversee pretty much everything.
And I believe in most clubs (if not all) this is actually what happens.
rodgerfox wrote:[
Sounds like Lyon has input into what his players get paid.
Interesting.
Why wouldn't the coach have input on player payments? Surely if the coach feels a player is important then that is a factor in the negotiations?
Whether or not the coach is doing the negotiating he would surely have some input?
RF does not mean Interesting at all..
What he means is that he equates this with GT doing Player contracts (which it clearly is not)and he cannot accept in any way shape or form that modern football department structures are superior to GT's outmoded way.
Being a GT disciple he cannot fathom how various "managers" can actually work together. It is an alien concept for him.
Lyon would of course input into how much players get paid...but Drain would do most of the work in this area.
Drain would provide input into the type of players he needs..but leave it to the recruiting team and Drain to get them. The coach has the right to set the specifications for his team.
But because Lyon does not overstep the mark he mainly has time for his key responsibility...coaching.
Most of all Lyon works WITH people, but sets the direction.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief
The extent of it?
What does that mean?
Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.
I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.
I think you are very confused but you also know exactly what you are saying. By the way do you think coaching should or shouldnt know what their star players earn?
Do I think?
I think the head coach of a footy club should be in control and oversee pretty much everything.
And I believe in most clubs (if not all) this is actually what happens.
I must admit i'm surprised though, with our 'modern footy dept' that this isn't what happens.
Very surprised actually.
Which is why I get confused when I read things like "ROSS LYON TOOK US TO A GF" and so on.
If the coach just coaches, then why does Lyon's name come up in negotiations with Luke Ball and decisions over Andrew Lovett's playing career?
Just seems odd.
It never ends with you does it?
What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.
rodgerfox wrote:[
Sounds like Lyon has input into what his players get paid.
Interesting.
Why wouldn't the coach have input on player payments? Surely if the coach feels a player is important then that is a factor in the negotiations?
Whether or not the coach is doing the negotiating he would surely have some input?
RF does not mean Interesting at all..
What he means is that he equates this with GT doing Player contracts (which it clearly is not)and he cannot accept in any way shape or form that modern football department structures are superior to GT's outmoded way.
Being a GT disciple he cannot fathom how various "managers" can actually work together. It is an alien concept for him.
Lyon would of course input into how much players get paid...but Drain would do most of the work in this area.
Drain would provide input into the type of players he needs..but leave it to the recruiting team and Drain to get them. The coach has the right to set the specifications for his team.
But because Lyon does not overstep the mark he mainly has time for his key responsibility...coaching.
Most of all Lyon works WITH people, but sets the direction.
Hmmmm.
Now I'm seeing the word 'mostly' quite a bit.
So on draft day, who sits at the table? And who makes the calls on who is drafted?
So the decision to 'let Luke Ball go', surely lies with the List Manager?
And the meeting where the person in control of the list (the List Manager) determines his fate would surely be chaired by the List Manager, as naturally they are the person with the power to make the final calls?
Last edited by rodgerfox on Wed 03 Feb 2010 9:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sainterman wrote:
What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.
It seems I am naive.
So who made the call to suspend Lovett?
I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?
rodgerfox wrote:[
Sounds like Lyon has input into what his players get paid.
Interesting.
Why wouldn't the coach have input on player payments? Surely if the coach feels a player is important then that is a factor in the negotiations?
Whether or not the coach is doing the negotiating he would surely have some input?
RF does not mean Interesting at all..
What he means is that he equates this with GT doing Player contracts (which it clearly is not)and he cannot accept in any way shape or form that modern football department structures are superior to GT's outmoded way.
Being a GT disciple he cannot fathom how various "managers" can actually work together. It is an alien concept for him.
Lyon would of course input into how much players get paid...but Drain would do most of the work in this area.
Drain would provide input into the type of players he needs..but leave it to the recruiting team and Drain to get them. The coach has the right to set the specifications for his team.
But because Lyon does not overstep the mark he mainly has time for his key responsibility...coaching.
Most of all Lyon works WITH people, but sets the direction.
Hmmmm.
Now I'm seeing the word 'mostly' quite a bit.
So on draft day, who sits at the table? And who makes the calls on who is drafted?
The people at the table usually have a list where they have ranked the players they would like to draft. This would be determined by many people at the club including recruiting staff, list management and the coaching staff. Doesn't mean RL has to sit there on the day...
Sainterman wrote:
What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.
It seems I am naive.
So who made the call to suspend Lovett?
I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?
IMO, like most areas, RL would have had input. I am sure it is not a call he made alone though, he would have participated in a meeting which I reckon would have had all relevant people involved. Together they would have reached a decision. Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.
Sainterman wrote:
The people at the table usually have a list where they have ranked the players they would like to draft. This would be determined by many people at the club including recruiting staff, list management and the coaching staff. Doesn't mean RL has to sit there on the day...
Sainterman wrote:
What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.
It seems I am naive.
So who made the call to suspend Lovett?
I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?
LOL you are funny.
Consensus is obviously a foreign concept to you.
You are so so wedded to the GT way of one person always having to make the call.
I personally would imagine that with something as important as this that some members of the Board, their legal experts (who may be the lawyer on the Board) and Lyon would have had meeting and reached consensus about what should be done.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Sainterman wrote:
What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.
It seems I am naive.
So who made the call to suspend Lovett?
I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?
IMO, like most areas, RL would have had input. I am sure it is not a call he made alone though, he would have participated in a meeting which I reckon would have had all relevant people involved. Together they would have reached a decision. Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.
Not in reality.
In reality, the 'boss' makes the call as it's his/her head on the line.
They will of course gather input, but then make the call themselves.
Unless of course we're now saying we have a democracy in place in the Footy Dept.?
So who overrides Ross Lyon on a List Management call?
Sainterman wrote:
The people at the table usually have a list where they have ranked the players they would like to draft. This would be determined by many people at the club including recruiting staff, list management and the coaching staff. Doesn't mean RL has to sit there on the day...
But does he?
And if he did? Why?
What is the difference whether he does or doesn't? I fail to see why that would have any relevance.
