Roo interview this morning on MMM

[saintsRrising]

Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.

Yes expect where there is a control freak at the reigns...

[rodgerfox]

What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.

It seems I am naive.

So who made the call to suspend Lovett?

I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?

LOL you are funny.

Consensus is obviously a foreign concept to you.

You are so so wedded to the GT way of one person always having to make the call.

I personally would imagine that with something as important as this that some members of the Board, their legal experts (who may be the lawyer on the Board) and Lyon would have had meeting and reached consensus about what should be done.

What does this have to with GT??

I'm asking questions about how our footy dept. runs because I keep reading conflicting reports about how it works.

No one, especially yourself, seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

[rodgerfox]

The people at the table usually have a list where they have ranked the players they would like to draft. This would be determined by many people at the club including recruiting staff, list management and the coaching staff. Doesn't mean RL has to sit there on the day...

But does he?

And if he did? Why?

What is the difference whether he does or doesn't? I fail to see why that would have any relevance.

Well why would he?

It's not his business. We have recruiters and a List Manager - why would the coach even be there?

[Sainterman]

What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.

It seems I am naive.

So who made the call to suspend Lovett?

I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?

IMO, like most areas, RL would have had input. I am sure it is not a call he made alone though, he would have participated in a meeting which I reckon would have had all relevant people involved. Together they would have reached a decision. Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.

Not in reality.

In reality, the 'boss' makes the call as it's his/her head on the line.

They will of course gather input, but then make the call themselves.


Unless of course we're now saying we have a democracy in place in the Footy Dept.?

So who overrides Ross Lyon on a List Management call?

In reality many people will have input on a variety of decisions that would all vary in overall importance. Perhaps the word delegation is unfamiliar to you, but it is a concept that allows the "boss" to empower others to make decisions. I am not sure this equates to a democracy, which is more a term referring to a type of political system a country operates under.

[Dr Spaceman]

Dear God, make it stop! Of course RL has some input into it - all coaches do. It's the extent of the input that GT had that caused concern for some people. You really do stretch things beyond belief

The extent of it?

What does that mean?

Sounds like Lyon has a fair bit of input, based on what I'm reading.


I'm just a bit confused about how modern football departments work.

Having some input into what players are worth (RL and 15 other current coaches) and acting like some demented Donald Trump on crack and personally drawing up all the contracts (GT) are two different things.

Anyway RF, It’s clear you keep putting questions that have no answers. No wonder these things go on for pages and pages which is no doubt your intent. But I only put my comment there coz I was keen to get my 100th post up. Now that I’ve done that, feel free to babble on without my input.

[plugger66]

What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.

It seems I am naive.

So who made the call to suspend Lovett?

I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?

LOL you are funny.

Consensus is obviously a foreign concept to you.

You are so so wedded to the GT way of one person always having to make the call.

I personally would imagine that with something as important as this that some members of the Board, their legal experts (who may be the lawyer on the Board) and Lyon would have had meeting and reached consensus about what should be done.

What does this have to with GT??

I'm asking questions about how our footy dept. runs because I keep reading conflicting reports about how it works.

No one, especially yourself, seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

I have a feeling we are all guessing as this is fan forum and that is what you do. If you are really concerned write a letter to club to get a full explanation on how it runs. i am sure they will write back.

[saintsRrising]

What does this have to with GT??

I'm asking questions about how our footy dept. runs because I keep reading conflicting reports about how it works.

No one, especially yourself, seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

Everything and you are fishing with your agenda...which is transparent to most.

And there is no conflict as to how it works.

Naturally no one on this firm knows exactly what occurs as Westaway, Lyon, Drain etc quite rightly don't waste their time reporting to members and the public with minute details.

But how it generally works is obvious to most.

[rodgerfox]

What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.

It seems I am naive.

So who made the call to suspend Lovett?

I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?

IMO, like most areas, RL would have had input. I am sure it is not a call he made alone though, he would have participated in a meeting which I reckon would have had all relevant people involved. Together they would have reached a decision. Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.

Not in reality.

In reality, the 'boss' makes the call as it's his/her head on the line.

They will of course gather input, but then make the call themselves.


Unless of course we're now saying we have a democracy in place in the Footy Dept.?

So who overrides Ross Lyon on a List Management call?

In reality many people will have input on a variety of decisions that would all vary in overall importance. Perhaps the word delegation is unfamiliar to you, but it is a concept that allows the "boss" to empower others to make decisions. I am not sure this equates to a democracy, which is more a term referring to a type of political system a country operates under.

Hang on, hang on.

Who delegates?

Are you now saying that Ross Lyon oversees it all - but delegates to other people ??

[rodgerfox]

What does this have to with GT??

I'm asking questions about how our footy dept. runs because I keep reading conflicting reports about how it works.

No one, especially yourself, seems to be able to give me a straight answer.

Everything and you are fishing with your agenda...which is transparent to most.

And there is no conflict as to how it works.

Naturally no one on this firm knows exactly what occurs as Westaway, Lyon, Drain etc quite rightly don't waste their time reporting to members and the public with minute details.

But how it generally works is obvious to most.

So you don't know how a 'modern footy dept' works?

[Sainterman]

What a naive point of view to think the coach would not be involved in any way. Do you think the list manager might perhaps seek the input of the head coach when making decisions about said list? I'd be surprised and disappointed if it didn't happen that way.

It seems I am naive.

So who made the call to suspend Lovett?

I'm reading on here that Lyon made the call. Does that sound right to you?

IMO, like most areas, RL would have had input. I am sure it is not a call he made alone though, he would have participated in a meeting which I reckon would have had all relevant people involved. Together they would have reached a decision. Fairly normal procedure across many corporations and business across the world I would have thought.

Not in reality.

In reality, the 'boss' makes the call as it's his/her head on the line.

They will of course gather input, but then make the call themselves.


Unless of course we're now saying we have a democracy in place in the Footy Dept.?

So who overrides Ross Lyon on a List Management call?

In reality many people will have input on a variety of decisions that would all vary in overall importance. Perhaps the word delegation is unfamiliar to you, but it is a concept that allows the "boss" to empower others to make decisions. I am not sure this equates to a democracy, which is more a term referring to a type of political system a country operates under.

Hang on, hang on.

Who delegates?

Are you now saying that Ross Lyon oversees it all - but delegates to other people ??

Nope, a little Corporate 101 for you Dodgey...

Businesses are generally made of up various departments. These departments usually have managers assigned to them. These departmental managers then often report in to Executive/Operational or General Management. Some decisions can be made at the departmental level, others are made at a higher level, and some, believe it or not are made by CEO's and the like. It is called a Corporate hierarchy. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Last time I checked RL was our Head Coach, not our President, not our CEO, not the manager of marketing!

Now if RL didn't delegate, then we could save some wages and get rid of SOS and all the other assistants, he wouldn't need them.

As head coach I would imagine he would have a big say in football related matters. In some cases this would mean input into trading, drafting and contracts. These are areas that would directly affect his role and his ability to carry that role out. He would not necessarily have complete control though. The difference here is he would have input, not complete control, as our previous coach liked to have.

Clearer? Or still confused?

[saintsRrising]

So you don't know how a 'modern footy dept' works?

I do and I am very happy the way things have turned out football department wise...pretty much exactly as I outlined when GT got the chop.

I know that you do not seek to discuss but rather seek to take the piss.

That is why you posted as Violent Stool.

That is why you ask questions to provoke.

[Sainterman]

So you don't know how a 'modern footy dept' works?

I do and I am very happy the way things have turned out football department wise...pretty much exactly as I outlined when GT got the chop.

I know that you do not seek to discuss but rather seek to take the piss.

That is why you posted as Violent Stool.

That is why you ask questions to provoke.

I have a feeling I am better off taking the dog for a walk at this point!

[saintsRrising]

Clearer? Or still confused?

He is neither.
He only comes on-line to play games.

He has no interest in answers...only reactions.

[rodgerfox]

So you don't know how a 'modern footy dept' works?

I do and I am very happy the way things have turned out football department wise...pretty much exactly as I outlined when GT got the chop.

I know that you do not seek to discuss but rather seek to take the piss.

That is why you posted as Violent Stool.

That is why you ask questions to provoke.

So how does our modern footy dept work?

Please answer this question.

[Sainterman]

Clearer? Or still confused?

He is neither.
He only comes on-line to play games.

He has no interest in answers...only reactions.

Could he be GT?

[rodgerfox]

Last time I checked RL was our Head Coach, not our President, not our CEO, not the manager of marketing!

Now if RL didn't delegate, then we could save some wages and get rid of SOS and all the other assistants, he wouldn't need them.

As head coach I would imagine he would have a big say in football related matters. In some cases this would mean input into trading, drafting and contracts. These are areas that would directly affect his role and his ability to carry that role out. He would not necessarily have complete control though. The difference here is he would have input, not complete control, as our previous coach liked to have.

Clearer? Or still confused?

thanks for the corporate world overview.

Although it actually doesn't work that way. But anyway....

So what does 'has an input' mean?

Does this mean he lured Misson to the club? Did he have anything to do with it? Did he say to someone "I want that man!" and someone else went and got him?

Did he say "I want Adam Schneider" and comeone else went and got him?

Did he say "I need a better list" and someone else went and made it happen?

What if he said "I want Steven King" and someone else went off and got him, and in the process paid him too much and it meant we lost Lenny Hayes, do you think Ross Lyon would be happy with that?

Is it in his area of responsibility? If not, then stiff shiit.

Or, would the person call Lyon and say "Dude, I can get him, but it will mean we may lose Lenny Hayes. What do you reckon??"

I guess that means Lyon has control. He's the boss who's making the calls.


I've read on here a few times that Lyon took Milne off the trade table. how does that happen?

Don't we have a List Manager? How does the coach overrule the List Manager?

And on top of all this, what does the Football Manager do? I tell you what, that sounds like a decent job!

Doesn't seem to do much, but on here is the most valued position ever created in a football club!!!

[saintsRrising]

I've read on here a few times that Lyon took Milne off the trade table. how does that happen?

Yes it was highly difficult.

Lyon says to Sheldon. Milne is a required player.

WOW!!!!!!!! amazing isn't it.

[saint66au]

thanks for the corporate world overview.

Although it actually doesn't work that way. But anyway....

Actually it pretty much mirrored my workplace structure exactly...but anyway..

[saintsRrising]

Anyway...why did GT go backwards after Waldron left?

[Sainterman]

Last time I checked RL was our Head Coach, not our President, not our CEO, not the manager of marketing!

Now if RL didn't delegate, then we could save some wages and get rid of SOS and all the other assistants, he wouldn't need them.

As head coach I would imagine he would have a big say in football related matters. In some cases this would mean input into trading, drafting and contracts. These are areas that would directly affect his role and his ability to carry that role out. He would not necessarily have complete control though. The difference here is he would have input, not complete control, as our previous coach liked to have.

Clearer? Or still confused?

thanks for the corporate world overview.

Although it actually doesn't work that way. But anyway....

So what does 'has an input' mean?

Does this mean he lured Misson to the club? Did he have anything to do with it? Did he say to someone "I want that man!" and someone else went and got him?

Did he say "I want Adam Schneider" and comeone else went and got him?

Did he say "I need a better list" and someone else went and made it happen?

What if he said "I want Steven King" and someone else went off and got him, and in the process paid him too much and it meant we lost Lenny Hayes, do you think Ross Lyon would be happy with that?

Is it in his area of responsibility? If not, then stiff shiit.

Or, would the person call Lyon and say "Dude, I can get him, but it will mean we may lose Lenny Hayes. What do you reckon??"

I guess that means Lyon has control. He's the boss who's making the calls.


I've read on here a few times that Lyon took Milne off the trade table. how does that happen?

Don't we have a List Manager? How does the coach overrule the List Manager?

And on top of all this, what does the Football Manager do? I tell you what, that sounds like a decent job!

Doesn't seem to do much, but on here is the most valued position ever created in a football club!!!

LOL. Is this seriously your reply?

For one it is actually hard to understand what on earth you are saying but I will do my best to help clear your confusion.

But first, please fill me in on how a Corporation works, my 20 years of corporate life must not have been enough.

Now as for input, the dictionary defines it quite well:

contribution of information, ideas, opinions, or the like: In a sentance..."Before making a decision we need your input."

Seems pretty simple really.

I would say, in relation to all the questions you have asked in your post, that input from RL would have been part of the decision making process.

Perhaps when RL said "I really want to keep Milne" others listened, valued his opinion and agreed that this would be ok. Perhaps, just maybe, it was not a decision he had complete control over, but through meeting with relevant people, he was able to achieve what he wanted.

Oh, and please take the time to illuminate me on where you feel my rundown on Corporate Hierarchy fell over, I am interested. Your baiting may mean I get a pay rise!

[JMsainter]

This is all chummy and amusing.

So does anyone know if Roo was lying? Or why Ball left?

It's no wonder that people are leaving this place.

Perhaps it should be restricted to over 18's only? Lord forbid any young people come on here thinking it's a Saints "fan" site.

Oh hang on a minny, there already seems to be a bunch of kiddies here on this thread.

[rodgerfox]

thanks for the corporate world overview.

Although it actually doesn't work that way. But anyway....

Actually it pretty much mirrored my workplace structure exactly...but anyway..

Obviously you were towards the bottom of the 'structure'.

Of course that's how the structure looks on paper. But no CEO or Snr Manager in their right mind would allow someone beneath them make significant judgement calls without their signoff that impact the CEO/Snr Manager directly.

Get fair dinkum.

They'll want you to think you're making calls, but the reality is you're not.


Why pay a CEO squillions if he lets some middle manager make the big calls that impact the company directly.


Been there done that, and seen it from both sides.

[Sainterman]

This is all chummy and amusing.

So does anyone know if Roo was lying? Or why Ball left?

It's no wonder that people are leaving this place.

Perhaps it should be restricted to over 18's only? Lord forbid any young people come on here thinking it's a Saints "fan" site.

Oh hang on a minny, there already seems to be a bunch of kiddies here on this thread.

Sorry JM, I normally don't get involved but I too am sick of all the crap certain users post on here. It certainly spoils the experience of soming on here...and I really don't want to contribute to that. It would be a lovely place if we didn't have it at all but some just want to come on here and bait.

I am done on the topic, hope this helps in some way. I actually agree with your sentiment.

[rodgerfox]

Now as for input, the dictionary defines it quite well:

contribution of information, ideas, opinions, or the like: In a sentance..."Before making a decision we need your input."

Seems pretty simple really.

Ok.

So Ross Lyon isn't in charge? Someone else is?

Someone else makes the calls and asks him for his input?


So really, Ross Lyon doesn't have a huge amount of pull at the footy club?

Oh, and please take the time to illuminate me on where you feel my rundown on Corporate Hierarchy fell over, I am interested. Your baiting may mean I get a pay rise!

The fact that you're not the one giving the pay rises and the fact you actually believe that your boss and his/her boss 'value your opinion' means your boss is doing their job well.

Keep slugging away and when you get above middle management you'll realise I'm spot on.

[joffaboy]

thanks for the corporate world overview.

Although it actually doesn't work that way. But anyway....

Actually it pretty much mirrored my workplace structure exactly...but anyway..

Obviously you were towards the bottom of the 'structure'.

Of course that's how the structure looks on paper. But no CEO or Snr Manager in their right mind would allow someone beneath them make significant judgement calls without their signoff that impact the CEO/Snr Manager directly.

Get fair dinkum.

They'll want you to think you're making calls, but the reality is you're not.


Why pay a CEO squillions if he lets some middle manager make the big calls that impact the company directly.


Been there done that, and seen it from both sides.

lol - RF you sound like you are out of your depth.

You sound very confused RF.

Really dont dabble in issues such as corporate structures, because you are making a fool of yourself.

Really your post above is highly amusing, actually bordering on sad