The last time we lost two key backs
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The last time we lost two key backs
With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
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Re: The last time we lost two key backs
also lost Shanahan round that time.fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
We did not hold that '97 GF team together for very long in the following seasons.
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We got rid of Ball, Goose and X for 1 pick. Major blunder. Plus we basically wasted our 1st round pick. Out of all of that, getting rid of Goose seems pretty stupid. When do not have a lot to choose from in full back. Should have kept Goose on, maybe to, he was simply out of favour with coach.
Goose would be a walk up start IMO. Watch him play well for the Lions this year...
Some bad choices being made at the top...
Goose would be a walk up start IMO. Watch him play well for the Lions this year...
Some bad choices being made at the top...
Re: The last time we lost two key backs
yep.........fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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I'd love to think that Matt Maguire will once again be the player that he was. Sadly, NO ...tragically, I cannot see Matt playing AFL again, and I'll have to "agree to disagree" with Saint Wodonga as to Matt being a "walk up start" The injury He suffered and the later complications prevent him becoming anywhere near the player he once was, and to start the doomsaying about our defence at this stage is quite frankly, premature.
Let us see just how the coach and the football department address any defensive concerns we may have come the season proper.
Its simply wasted energy to be now wise after the event and pine for the loss of Max, and Goose. We did reasonably well for 19 rounds of AFL in 2009 without Max or Goose being regular team members. Thats NOT a criticism of two fine servants of the club, just stating a fact.
I'm ready to get behind WHOEVER may be wearing red-black-and-white.
We should ALL be!
Let us see just how the coach and the football department address any defensive concerns we may have come the season proper.
Its simply wasted energy to be now wise after the event and pine for the loss of Max, and Goose. We did reasonably well for 19 rounds of AFL in 2009 without Max or Goose being regular team members. Thats NOT a criticism of two fine servants of the club, just stating a fact.
I'm ready to get behind WHOEVER may be wearing red-black-and-white.
We should ALL be!
St Kilda forever ![🔴](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f534.svg)
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thejiggingsaint wrote:I'd love to think that Matt Maguire will once again be the player that he was. Sadly, NO ...tragically, I cannot see Matt playing AFL again, and I'll have to "agree to disagree" with Saint Wodonga as to Matt being a "walk up start" The injury He suffered and the later complications prevent him becoming anywhere near the player he once was, and to start the doomsaying about our defence at this stage is quite frankly, premature.
Let us see just how the coach and the football department address any defensive concerns we may have come the season proper.
Its simply wasted energy to be now wise after the event and pine for the loss of Max, and Goose. We did reasonably well for 19 rounds of AFL in 2009 without Max or Goose being regular team members. Thats NOT a criticism of two fine servants of the club, just stating a fact.
I'm ready to get behind WHOEVER may be wearing red-black-and-white.
We should ALL be!
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx
bit premature to write him right off imho....
Last edited by stinger on Sun 14 Mar 2010 5:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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What was our backline post the Wakelins?
Max - reliable
then Plapp, for a while Barry Hall, Troy Schwarze?
Then maguire developed with fisher under that after about 3 years.
This time our defence is a lot better.
Dawson, Fisher, Gilbert, Blake
then medium back up options like Gwilt, Goddard etc.
And some young guys coming up who look ok.....although a lot to prove.
Gaertner, Simpkin etc.
We are much better off now then then. IMO
Max - reliable
then Plapp, for a while Barry Hall, Troy Schwarze?
Then maguire developed with fisher under that after about 3 years.
This time our defence is a lot better.
Dawson, Fisher, Gilbert, Blake
then medium back up options like Gwilt, Goddard etc.
And some young guys coming up who look ok.....although a lot to prove.
Gaertner, Simpkin etc.
We are much better off now then then. IMO
Re: The last time we lost two key backs
Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
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Watched Goose at Southport. Average. Slow as.SaintWodonga wrote:We got rid of Ball, Goose and X for 1 pick. Major blunder. Plus we basically wasted our 1st round pick. Out of all of that, getting rid of Goose seems pretty stupid. When do not have a lot to choose from in full back. Should have kept Goose on, maybe to, he was simply out of favour with coach.
Goose would be a walk up start IMO. Watch him play well for the Lions this year...
Some bad choices being made at the top...
Tell you what though. Lions are BIG. Merrett, Brown, Fev, Leuenberger, Staker (was he always such a chesty bicep dude?).
Maguire is no squirt, but he looked like a skinny little kid next to most of them.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.
If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.
Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.
So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.
Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.
Otherwise............................
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.
Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.
So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.
Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.
Otherwise............................
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
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Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.meher baba wrote:When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.
If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.
Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.
So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.
Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.
Otherwise............................![]()
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I'm sure he asked to leave, but wasn't it mainly because he couldn't see a spot for himself in the senior lineup, and didn't Zac (and, to some extent, Raph) represent the key barrier?plugger66 wrote:Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.meher baba wrote:When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.
If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.
Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.
So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.
Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.
Otherwise............................![]()
I don't think we lifted a finger to try to keep him. Obviously that was partly out of kindness, but who ever built a premiership-winning list out of kindness?
He might be a bit one-paced, but he's tough. So are Ball and (despite his small frame) X.
Are Zac, Armo and the others we are now resting our hopes in going to turn out to be as tough? And if not, are they going to much help to us in winning our second premiership?
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
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I liked X man, he was skillful and quick, but he was not tough. Very fragile player.meher baba wrote:I'm sure he asked to leave, but wasn't it mainly because he couldn't see a spot for himself in the senior lineup, and didn't Zac (and, to some extent, Raph) represent the key barrier?plugger66 wrote:Just maybe Goose wanted to leave so what choice do you have.meher baba wrote:When guys like Maguire, Ball and - perhaps eventually - X go well for other clubs, it eats away at our club's collective morale.
If Maguire keeps going well at the Lions, Fisher stays injured, and Dawson doesn't get his s@#t together soon, the whole thing could become a bit of a problem.
Unlike Ball, I reckon we could have hung onto Goose but for our deciding to go big time with Zac as FB. With the two Sams, Raph and Blake all doing so well in 2009, and Goose could see that there wasn't a great prospect of winning a place.
So I hope Zac turns out well in the longer term. We heard a lot from Mr Drain last season about what a genius piece of recruiting getting hold of Zac was on his part. Mr Drain has now gone totally silent since another genius piece of recruiting on his part - with lots of input from all his old Bomber mates - didn't turn out quite so wonderfully.
Whether Goose goes good, bad or indifferently won't matter if Sam Fisher gets back soon and Zac gets his act together again.
Otherwise............................![]()
I don't think we lifted a finger to try to keep him. Obviously that was partly out of kindness, but who ever built a premiership-winning list out of kindness?
He might be a bit one-paced, but he's tough. So are Ball and (despite his small frame) X.
Are Zac, Armo and the others we are now resting our hopes in going to turn out to be as tough? And if not, are they going to much help to us in winning our second premiership?
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Re: The last time we lost two key backs
No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Hudghton and Goose couldn't get a look.Middo wrote:Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.
It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).
I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.
Last edited by BAM! (shhhh) on Mon 15 Mar 2010 2:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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X is a player who is not afraid to put his body on the line in contests: that's why I consider him to be tough.saintlee wrote:I liked X man, he was skillful and quick, but he was not tough. Very fragile player.
He is certainly injury prone, but a lot of his hamstring injuries have come when he is just running around the field not bumping into anybody.
His ACL injury last season was the sort of unlucky thing that could happen to any player in any game.
If he can get back to the fitness he displayed in 2007, X will be an asset to the Lions.
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Re: The last time we lost two key backs
Yes, if we are completely sure that Zac will remain a permanent fixture: otherwise, a reshuffled backline with Goose might have been a better alternative that what we would otherwise be faced with.BAM! (shhhh) wrote:No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.Middo wrote:Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.
It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).
I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.
However, I agree with you that you don't clog up your list with second string KPPs (Adam Pattison anyone?).
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Re: The last time we lost two key backs
Don't know that we need to be that sure, a few things worth remembering:meher baba wrote:Yes, if we are completely sure that Zac will remain a permanent fixture: otherwise, a reshuffled backline with Goose might have been a better alternative that what we would otherwise be faced with.BAM! (shhhh) wrote:... Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.
Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.
It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).
I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.
However, I agree with you that you don't clog up your list with second string KPPs (Adam Pattison anyone?).
- Zac plays fullback; Goose has never played there for an extended period of time (at AFL level anyway), so there's no real evidence other than our own skills analysis for saying he could/couldn't have gotten the job done.
- Come round 1, I'm guessing Zac (or anyone at fullback) gets a lot more help than happened in the NAB cup games. Dawson was seeing a lot more spear passes to his guy of the sort that very few have ever been able to handle (Hudghton could, but where Zac beat him out was being more attacking with the ball and more willing to mark). 3rd man up is critical to Saints footy.
- Can't say this enough: Sam Fisher is the guy who holds down the job we thought Goose would do. Jason Blake holds down the job we though Sam Fisher would do... Fisher's knee hurts, but even as a guy who was/is pretty confident that Goose's AFL careers got some big games left in it, Goose wasn't going to fill that hole.
The other thing worth noting about Dawson is his age, when Fisher, Blake, Goose, have all retired, Zac will still be going. Even if he has a horrible year, I would be sticking with Zac.
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Re: The last time we lost two key backs
Hmmm Maguire and Goose ??BAM! (shhhh) wrote:No he didn't. Last year we had a very stable, uninjured side that put up one of the best defensive records in memory. Maguire and Goose couldn't get a look.Middo wrote:Let go he had all last year to make the side , lets see how many games he gets with Brisbane before we start getting on the "Why did we let Goose go bandwagon "!!fugazi wrote:With Max and Goose gone, it reminds me of the hasty decision to trade/ delist the Wakelins. What followed was a pretty bleak period in defence for us, and I'm not seeing alot of depth there now. Wrong move to trade Goose!
Which for the record, needs to be remembered as the reason that Hudghton has retired and Goose has gone to Brisbane - not because of any lack of judgement on managements part. It's incredibly low percentage to hang onto extra established KPP on the off chance of injury, it just gets in the way of development.
It also ought be remembered that it's Sam Fisher (and maybe Jason Blake) who made Goose expendable, NOT Zac Dawson (who took Hudghton's spot).
I think those writing off Goose are kidding themselves, but time will tell on that. In the meantime, finding a new home for Maguire was not only the right move list-wise, but classy treatment to be proud of to boot.
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