Armitage v Ball

[Mooksy]

Had nothing better to do...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=S&fid2=S

Sorry can't hyperlink for some reason.

[Stillwaiting]

Would like to see the "missed target by a mile: stat.

[SainterK]

As I mentioned to Rodger today in another thread, do you think the fact that his contested possession is a little higher, means because he has the ball in possession he doesn't need to tackle as often?

I think Armo is tracking very well, and has done a very good job, and will improve given this is his first consistent run of games.

[Griggsy]

I like this stat.

25 Career Games 148

[super dooper]

Collingwood have used 28 players thus far in 2010.

Luke Ball is ranked 21st in Disposal efficiency at Collingwood, the lowest of any "midfielder" at collingwood. He has a 66.96% efficiency rate. Considering 53% of his possessions are handballs this is pretty piss poor.

Players below him are:
Lockyer - 65.57 --> a shadow of the past player he has been
Toovey - 65.28
Jolly - 63.7 --> The other "prize" recruit
Davis - 63.24 --> The september specialist
Fraser - 62.2 --> Oh dear
Dawes - 59.3
Mcarthy - 54.5 --> only had 11 touches for the year.

Out of the 8 worst disposal efficiency players at collingwood, Ball has had the most disposals = clanger king.

averaging 19 touches a game.

earning 22k per game (on his 500k salary), thats only $1,196 per disposal, or better still $1,839 per effective disposal...

Money well spent?

[rexy]

Cant bring myself to dislike Ball as many can, I think he probably did what is right for him instead of the club, and whilst that disappoints me it does not make me detest the man as it does for many others.

A couple of things are obvious to me after 6 rounds, 1- we dont miss him a great deal, 2- he is a good footballer who gives a consistant output, definately a best 22 player for most clubs but will never really star in a game in the modern climate. 3- he is only a bees dick in front of Armo with 125 more games and Armo may be better contributor than him by years end . 4- we should have taken pick 30, it is very close to his current value and this years pick 30 if well picked could have been a 10 year player for the club. (at the time I thought 30 was not enough and the club had done the right thing, now with out my rose colored ex captain B&F winner Saints player glasses on I see I was wrong).

[mick13]

Haha true, it's funny how Saints supporters went from demanding a first round draft pick....to saying he's useless and hardly in Collingwood's best 22.

I'm pissed off at him, but it's fair enough I guess. If I had Armo gunning for my place, I too would be wanting to get the f*** out!

[meher baba]

Interesting comparison and makes me realize why I'm still not 100% convinced about Armo. He's been presented with his chance on a platter this season and is still only delivering for us about what Ball is delivering for the Pies: which everyone agrees is pretty mediocre.

At Armo's age, Ball was club captain and a star of the game, before his injuries caught up with him.

Towards the end of 2008, Armo more or less had a spot of his own in our firsts alongside Ball. Last year, he found himself shut out by Ray, Geary, Dempster, Baker (back from injury), etc. If Ball had stayed, he'd still be struggling for a senior spot IMO.

They say small mids develop faster than other players. I hope Armo turns out to be the exception that proves the rule (I guess CJ is as well, but he wasn't blessed with Armo's natural talent).

I can't entirely explain why, but I just don't think Armo is going to turn out to be a star of the game. He just doesn't seem to be able to seize the game by the scruff of the neck in the way that star midfielders do.

I'm not suggesting that Armo couldn't play 200 games of AFL for us or others. But I don't think he'll ever feature strongly on Brownlow night.

On what I've seen in a handfull of games, Steven is a far more exciting prospect. Could become a big star, if the chips fall right for him.

[SainterK]

Interesting comparison and makes me realize why I'm still not 100% convinced about Armo. He's been presented with his chance on a platter this season and is still only delivering for us about what Ball is delivering for the Pies: which everyone agrees is pretty mediocre.

At Armo's age, Ball was club captain and a star of the game, before his injuries caught up with him.

Towards the end of 2008, Armo more or less had a spot of his own in our firsts alongside Ball. Last year, he found himself shut out by Ray, Geary, Dempster, Baker (back from injury), etc. If Ball had stayed, he'd still be struggling for a senior spot IMO.

They say small mids develop faster than other players. I hope Armo turns out to be the exception that proves the rule (I guess CJ is as well, but he wasn't blessed with Armo's natural talent).

I can't entirely explain why, but I just don't think Armo is going to turn out to be a star of the game. He just doesn't seem to be able to seize the game by the scruff of the neck in the way that star midfielders do.

I'm not suggesting that Armo couldn't play 200 games of AFL for us or others. But I don't think he'll ever feature strongly on Brownlow night.

On what I've seen in a handfull of games, Steven is a far more exciting prospect. Could become a big star, if the chips fall right for him.

Curious, how many games had Luke Ball played at Armo's age?

I think he is getting better with opportunity, had a few career highs already this year.

Thought his game against Freo was excellent, it's been a bit hard to judge since, given the style of game the last 2 weeks. Like trying to analyse a particular players game against the Swans, very difficult to star in a tight grinding game.

[saintsRrising]

I think he is getting better with opportunity, had a few career highs already this year.

.

Agree. Armo is on 25 games. This hopefully will be his first "full" season. His longest run of consecutive games up until this year was only 5.

One of the truisms of AFL is that players hit their straps at around the 50 mark.

ie Look at Gwilt on 47 games (though 2 years older).

On the other side of the coin many players play only upto 50 games and never go anywhere after that.

But Armo looks to have the goods.

[meher baba]

Curious, how many games had Luke Ball played at Armo's age?

Nearly 80 games, I think.

But Luke was pcked out as a potential superstar when he was 15-16, possibly earlier

Armo was older when he first came to the attention of the talent scouts and, as I recall, there were always concerns that he wasn't quick enough to make it at AFL level.

Ironically, Ball is now probably a bit slower than Armo.

[Saintsfan]

Similar output although I believe we have diminished in our ability around the clearances since Luke Ball's departure.

So be it, statistically we have not lost too much and essentially Armitage is 3+ years younger than Ball.

[samoht]

I'd rather concentrate on Armitage vs Steven - 2 young players hopefully about to blossom - a healthy rivalry for spots and something we can control.

[loris]

I'd rather concentrate on Armitage vs Steven 2 young players hopefully about to blossom - a healthy rivalry for spots and something we can control.

ditto

[desertsaint]

When armo departs for the GC are we gonna hate him too?

[Dr Spaceman]

When armo departs for the GC are we gonna hate him too?

No suggestion Armo's going anywhere.

Why GC - just because he comes from QLD?

In any event I don't see too much hate here for Goose or X.

It's not the leaving that causes the hate; it's the how and why!

[saintsRrising]

Curious, how many games had Luke Ball played at Armo's age?

Nearly 80 games, I think.

But Luke was pcked out as a potential superstar when he was 15-16, possibly earlier

Armo was older when he first came to the attention of the talent scouts and, as I recall, there were always concerns that he wasn't quick enough to make it at AFL level.

Ironically, Ball is now probably a bit slower than Armo.

Of relevance to games played by seasons at the club is that Ball joined when the club was weaker and so early draft picks tended to be played straight away in order to "fast-track" them.

Whereas Armo has trying to break into a club trying to play finals where places have to be earnt. A harder task. Players are also now developed in the VFL rather than the seniors.

[mick13]

Not to mention a completely different coach who strongly believes in 'apprenticeships'. Very few of our younger players are getting games, and it seems 3 years is the minimum before they are considered regulars. As we can see with Gears and Armo having played every game this season.

[Con Gorozidis]

Collingwood have used 28 players thus far in 2010.

Luke Ball is ranked 21st in Disposal efficiency at Collingwood, the lowest of any "midfielder" at collingwood. He has a 66.96% efficiency rate. Considering 53% of his possessions are handballs this is pretty piss poor.

Players below him are:
Lockyer - 65.57 --> a shadow of the past player he has been
Toovey - 65.28
Jolly - 63.7 --> The other "prize" recruit
Davis - 63.24 --> The september specialist
Fraser - 62.2 --> Oh dear
Dawes - 59.3
Mcarthy - 54.5 --> only had 11 touches for the year.

Out of the 8 worst disposal efficiency players at collingwood, Ball has had the most disposals = clanger king.

averaging 19 touches a game.

earning 22k per game (on his 500k salary), thats only $1,196 per disposal, or better still $1,839 per effective disposal...

Money well spent?

mate. r u an economist? some would say harsh analysis. But pretty darn good one. I know for all of us footy is an emotional game. But this storm thing highlights just how much salary cap and payments count. U cant ignore it. So I have nothing against Luke Ball. But the hard fact (as u have pointed out) is the guy was overpaid. And if u over pay a guy it means u miss our on another player (unless u do a rort). So on cold hard facts of salary capped footy. Ball had to go.

[meher baba]

Collingwood have used 28 players thus far in 2010.

Luke Ball is ranked 21st in Disposal efficiency at Collingwood, the lowest of any "midfielder" at collingwood. He has a 66.96% efficiency rate. Considering 53% of his possessions are handballs this is pretty piss poor.

Players below him are:
Lockyer - 65.57 --> a shadow of the past player he has been
Toovey - 65.28
Jolly - 63.7 --> The other "prize" recruit
Davis - 63.24 --> The september specialist
Fraser - 62.2 --> Oh dear
Dawes - 59.3
Mcarthy - 54.5 --> only had 11 touches for the year.

Out of the 8 worst disposal efficiency players at collingwood, Ball has had the most disposals = clanger king.

averaging 19 touches a game.

earning 22k per game (on his 500k salary), thats only $1,196 per disposal, or better still $1,839 per effective disposal...

Money well spent?

mate. r u an economist? some would say harsh analysis. But pretty darn good one. I know for all of us footy is an emotional game. But this storm thing highlights just how much salary cap and payments count. U cant ignore it. So I have nothing against Luke Ball. But the hard fact (as u have pointed out) is the guy was overpaid. And if u over pay a guy it means u miss our on another player (unless u do a rort). So on cold hard facts of salary capped footy. Ball had to go.

Economists care crucially about comparing "apples and apples".

Disposal efficiency is always highest among players who hlget the ball in the clear (eg, loose men in the backline) and lowest among guys who play in contests: mids, rucks, forwards, etc.

Ball certainly doesn't have the greatest disposal, but I'd need to know a lot
more about these stats before I considered them to be all that damning.

My recollection is that Lenny's efficiency has never been all that flash either.

[super dooper]

Collingwood have used 28 players thus far in 2010.

Luke Ball is ranked 21st in Disposal efficiency at Collingwood, the lowest of any "midfielder" at collingwood. He has a 66.96% efficiency rate. Considering 53% of his possessions are handballs this is pretty piss poor.

Players below him are:
Lockyer - 65.57 --> a shadow of the past player he has been
Toovey - 65.28
Jolly - 63.7 --> The other "prize" recruit
Davis - 63.24 --> The september specialist
Fraser - 62.2 --> Oh dear
Dawes - 59.3
Mcarthy - 54.5 --> only had 11 touches for the year.

Out of the 8 worst disposal efficiency players at collingwood, Ball has had the most disposals = clanger king.

averaging 19 touches a game.

earning 22k per game (on his 500k salary), thats only $1,196 per disposal, or better still $1,839 per effective disposal...

Money well spent?

mate. r u an economist? some would say harsh analysis. But pretty darn good one. I know for all of us footy is an emotional game. But this storm thing highlights just how much salary cap and payments count. U cant ignore it. So I have nothing against Luke Ball. But the hard fact (as u have pointed out) is the guy was overpaid. And if u over pay a guy it means u miss our on another player (unless u do a rort). So on cold hard facts of salary capped footy. Ball had to go.

Na no economist here, but i do study econometrics

just had 10 mins of spare time infront of the tv.


Yes, midfielders might have lower efficiency, but Ball has the lowest efficiency of the "abundance" of midfielders at collingwood...

What about his game the other week, had 10 kicks --> 8 missed the target!

Also, he is only getting 70-73% game time at collingwood...

Armo is far from being a gun, i would say he is extemely slow and doesn't get enoug of the ball, hopefully that will come in the coming weeks and years.

One thing we guarenteed of is that he adds a bit of mungrel and bite to our team on the field and hits every contest 100 miles an hour.

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

What's the latest???

[kosifantutti23]

What's the latest???

Ball still very reliable shot for goal from within 15m but in big trouble outside 30m

You are still a troll and I don't know why the mods tolerate you.

[Leo.J]

What's the latest???

Ball still very reliable shot for goal from within 15m but in big trouble outside 30m

You are still a troll and I don't know why the mods tolerate you.

I find it odd that someone would spend so much time on an opp forum!!?

That said, it's like when you talk to a derro on fitzroy st. or somewhere like that. You have good intentions, and you are polite, then half an hour later when the poor bugger has talked your ear off, you swear to never do it again.

Don't make eye contact and don't answer, and they'll leave you alone.

Same applies here...that is unless you enjoy the banter.

[35...LEGEND]

What's the latest???

Ball still very reliable shot for goal from within 15m but in big trouble outside 30m

You are still a troll and I don't know why the mods tolerate you.

I find it odd that someone would spend so much time on an opp forum!!?

That said, it's like when you talk to a derro on fitzroy st. or somewhere like that. You have good intentions, and you are polite, then half an hour later when the poor bugger has talked your ear off, you swear to never do it again.

Don't make eye contact and don't answer, and they'll leave you alone.

Same applies here...that is unless you enjoy the banter.

ha ha ,had a few last night........was in the mood.

Don't normally engage too often,but i thought F#$k this crap