ST KILDA coach Ross Lyon has leapt to the defence of forward Justin Koschitzke after his quiet showing against Collingwood last week.
Don't expect to see Kosi dropped
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Don't expect to see Kosi dropped
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx
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- samoht
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Kosi at his best is the best - we all agree with that.
Enough discussion and articles written - I'd consider Lyon a great coach if he can now get the best out of him for the finals - if Kosi fires we will win the GF - he will make the difference and he's that important.
No more talk - ACTION
Enough discussion and articles written - I'd consider Lyon a great coach if he can now get the best out of him for the finals - if Kosi fires we will win the GF - he will make the difference and he's that important.
No more talk - ACTION
Last edited by samoht on Wed 21 Jul 2010 7:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kosi at his best is not the best.samoht wrote:Kosi at his best is the best - we all agree with that.
Enough discussion and articles written - I'd consider Lyon a great coach if he can now get the best out of him for the finals - if Kosi fires we will win the GF - he will make the difference.
No more talk - ACTION
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- samoht
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I guess I'm easily pleased - I'll settle for another 12 brownlow votes in a row ... and 3 best on grounds in successive finals and the Norm Smith.clarky449 wrote:Kosi at his best is not the best.samoht wrote:Kosi at his best is the best - we all agree with that.
Enough discussion and articles written - I'd consider Lyon a great coach if he can now get the best out of him for the finals - if Kosi fires we will win the GF - he will make the difference.
No more talk - ACTION
- rodgerfox
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Kosi plays a role.Mooksy wrote:Hang on a sec....WTF has he done all year??! Kosi apologists give me the absolute sh*ts!
The first sign, under Ross Lyon, that you are doing exactly what he wants you to do - is to continue getting a game. He's doing what's being asked of him.
Saints supporters are so out of touch with what the team is actually doing these days.
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His role is now to cause spillages ? - I see that as a role reversal from his 4 best on ground in a row performance/role when his role was to take marks and kick goals.rodgerfox wrote: Kosi plays a role.
The first sign, under Ross Lyon, that you are doing exactly what he wants you to do - is to continue getting a game. He's doing what's being asked of him.
Saints supporters are so out of touch with what the team is actually doing these days.
- rodgerfox
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The club is very secretive about what each players' role actually is - but yes, I'd assume his role is to make contests and bring the ball to ground (among other things).samoht wrote:His role is now to cause spillages ? - I see that as a role reversal from his 4 best on ground in a row performance/role when his role was to take marks and kick goals.rodgerfox wrote: Kosi plays a role.
The first sign, under Ross Lyon, that you are doing exactly what he wants you to do - is to continue getting a game. He's doing what's being asked of him.
Saints supporters are so out of touch with what the team is actually doing these days.
I think this is why there is the outrage about his performance. Because as you say, in many's view it's not exactly the ideal way to utilise what many see as a very talented footballer.
The question also is, does Kosi think it's a good way to utilise his ability? His body language certainly doesn't suggest he does.
Luke Ball obviously didn't want to accept the role he was given, I wonder if Kosi will persevere.
When Kosi was out, Pattison came in and played a role. When watching that game, I couldn't help but notice the similarities between what he was doing, and what Kosi does.
It seems obvious, that Pattison wasn't reaplcing Kosi as such, but was filling the role that Kosi plays.
Pattison was selected the following week, even though his game to the average footy follower, appeared pretty shiit.
Last edited by rodgerfox on Wed 21 Jul 2010 7:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
I like the sound of that.samoht wrote:I guess I'm easily pleased - I'll settle for another 12 brownlow votes in a row ... and 3 best on grounds in successive finals and the Norm Smith.clarky449 wrote:Kosi at his best is not the best.samoht wrote:Kosi at his best is the best - we all agree with that.
Enough discussion and articles written - I'd consider Lyon a great coach if he can now get the best out of him for the finals - if Kosi fires we will win the GF - he will make the difference.
No more talk - ACTION
Follow me for my expert opinions on Twitter @DanielClark93
- bobmurray
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I now have to agree with you....Mooksy wrote:Hang on a sec....WTF has he done all year??! Kosi apologists give me the absolute sh*ts!
I think it's only Saints supporters who expect him to suddenly transform himself into an elite player....
I don't know why he struggles week in,week out...
just makes me think he's not up to it.....
Ross knows better, so i'll watch and wait for the turnaround...
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Ross gave him a public lifeline by 'blaming' three weeks out with the ankle and the wet against Geelong...One way or another I'm strongly tipping this is his last week of so-so... Ross has used up all the excuses now...Fingers crossed.Bernard Shakey wrote:I'd rather a footballer than an actor any day. Kosi aint either.rodgerfox wrote: Kosi plays a role.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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I think alot of people would - but that's not what the Saints team is built. It's certainly a decent discussion, but my take on it is that results are what count.Bernard Shakey wrote:I'd rather a footballer than an actor any day.rodgerfox wrote: Kosi plays a role.
We've been winning, made a GF and look set to make the top 4. So really, it's hard to argue againts the system.
However if we don't win the flag this year, then certainly the debate will flair again.
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I have a lot more conifdence in Adam Pattison than I do in Kosi right now. While my confidence in Patto is at an all-time high, that's not saying a lot.
If Kosi has played a crucial role in wins, I'd like to see some evidence of it rather than just pointing out that we've been winning, so therefore Kosi must be awesome. The same logic suggests that after getting thumped by Collingwood, we should be dumping half the team.
If all we want is a big lumbering hulk to crash a pack and bring the ball to ground, then I'd suggest our forward setup lacks some imagination. I'd like to know just how many packs Kosi has crashed and how many scoring chances have been generated, because it doesn't seem to be a lot. He spends large stretches of the game as the invisible man.
I think we're still selecting Kosi in the hopes he'll find some form before finals and all this other stuff is just an excuse. I don't believe they see him as a role player at all. Right now he appears much more of an obstacle to team success.
If Kosi has played a crucial role in wins, I'd like to see some evidence of it rather than just pointing out that we've been winning, so therefore Kosi must be awesome. The same logic suggests that after getting thumped by Collingwood, we should be dumping half the team.
If all we want is a big lumbering hulk to crash a pack and bring the ball to ground, then I'd suggest our forward setup lacks some imagination. I'd like to know just how many packs Kosi has crashed and how many scoring chances have been generated, because it doesn't seem to be a lot. He spends large stretches of the game as the invisible man.
I think we're still selecting Kosi in the hopes he'll find some form before finals and all this other stuff is just an excuse. I don't believe they see him as a role player at all. Right now he appears much more of an obstacle to team success.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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A lot of interesting points of view amongst that lot.
It goes without saying that everyone's entitled to their own views.
Mine is this. As long as he's on our list and in our team I will continue to support him.
If that makes me naive, or guilty of wearing rose coloured glasses, then so be it.
I'm keeping the faith.
It goes without saying that everyone's entitled to their own views.
Mine is this. As long as he's on our list and in our team I will continue to support him.
If that makes me naive, or guilty of wearing rose coloured glasses, then so be it.
I'm keeping the faith.
Actually, I did some stats on it last year.vacuous space wrote:I have a lot more conifdence in Adam Pattison than I do in Kosi right now. While my confidence in Patto is at an all-time high, that's not saying a lot.
If Kosi has played a crucial role in wins, I'd like to see some evidence of it rather than just pointing out that we've been winning, so therefore Kosi must be awesome. The same logic suggests that after getting thumped by Collingwood, we should be dumping half the team.
If all we want is a big lumbering hulk to crash a pack and bring the ball to ground, then I'd suggest our forward setup lacks some imagination. I'd like to know just how many packs Kosi has crashed and how many scoring chances have been generated, because it doesn't seem to be a lot. He spends large stretches of the game as the invisible man.
I think we're still selecting Kosi in the hopes he'll find some form before finals and all this other stuff is just an excuse. I don't believe they see him as a role player at all. Right now he appears much more of an obstacle to team success.
While nothing particularly concrete, the more we kicked it to Kosi as our target inside 50, the more combined goals Milne Schneider and Mini happened to kick. The more we kicked it to Roo, the less impact our small forwards had on the game.
Coincidence, I tend not to think so, but each can make up their own mind.
The stats are pretty telling from the weekend, we went inside 50 over 40 times, yet I am not entirely sure who it was being kicked to?
Usually you can look at who were our inside 50 targets and pretty much marry it up with the amount of inside 50's give or take a couple that are sometimes mids running inside 50 or similar.
The inside 50 target stats indicated we went to Roo 6 times, Kosi 4 times, Schneider twice, Pattison twice, and Milne once....not sure who else had the numbers, perhaps it went in there with no real purpose?
Our forward line has had some pretty dramatic changes this year, after adjusting to life without Roo, it now is learning to accomodate him again.
I can see it improving on the weekend.
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I think the vast majority will. Not many people here actually take pleasure in seeing Saints going poorly. There are always an assortment of twits scattered around the ground who take joy in everything Kosi does wrong, as they do with Clarke, Dawson and others. They're just a very vocal minority.Dr Spaceman wrote:As long as he's on our list and in our team I will continue to support him.
Most people here may say nasty things about him and his abilities, but we all want him to do well - I'm just not sure that a team fighting for positioning in the top four should be carrying an underperforming tall. There may be better options. Kosi may actually benefit from getting out from under the spotlight for a week or two.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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Fair enough vs, but I think most, if not all, posters agree that this fella Ross Lyon is doing a pretty fair job.vacuous space wrote:I think the vast majority will. Not many people here actually take pleasure in seeing Saints going poorly. There are always an assortment of twits scattered around the ground who take joy in everything Kosi does wrong, as they do with Clarke, Dawson and others. They're just a very vocal minority.Dr Spaceman wrote:As long as he's on our list and in our team I will continue to support him.
Most people here may say nasty things about him and his abilities, but we all want him to do well - I'm just not sure that a team fighting for positioning in the top four should be carrying an underperforming tall. There may be better options. Kosi may actually benefit from getting out from under the spotlight for a week or two.
And I really don't think he's going to be pig-headed and continue to play Kosi if he thinks that's going to jeopardise our chances of a flag. Ross may not have followed the Saints for 10. 20. 30 years or whatever, but Grand Final success with this team is just as important to him as it is to us.
So on the basis that RL is a smart guy, and that he desperately wants to win, I'm prepared to back his decision to keep playing Kosi, even if our eyes suggest he's not performing.
And I have total faith in Ross dropping Kosi at some stage, if he believes such a move is crucial to our success.
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I also see Kossie having a role to play - and I have not seen him beaten regularly in marking contests - one on one - and if he does bring it to ground then it is clear the options are there around him.
Roo has yet to fit back into the structure (but that is obvious) - this week is a bigger test for all.
I wonder how many will tip us - not many I reckon - but this means nothing!
Roo has yet to fit back into the structure (but that is obvious) - this week is a bigger test for all.
I wonder how many will tip us - not many I reckon - but this means nothing!
This is a team game and there is no room for individuals who think they are above walking through the fire.
honestly, i don't care if kosi specifically does well. i just care if the team wins flags. i don't really care which players are out on the field when that happens.vacuous space wrote:Most people here may say nasty things about him and his abilities, but we all want him to do well...
if ross thinks that he can play kosi back into form and get him to the point where he's on the field when we win a flag then he should definitely persist. but if it doesn't work (again) then at some point he has to expect scrutiny of that decision.
An article in defence of Kosi by Greg Denham in todays Australian.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 5895296489
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sp ... 5895296489
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samoht wrote:His role is now to cause spillages ? - I see that as a role reversal from his 4 best on ground in a row performance/role when his role was to take marks and kick goals.rodgerfox wrote: Kosi plays a role.
The first sign, under Ross Lyon, that you are doing exactly what he wants you to do - is to continue getting a game. He's doing what's being asked of him.
Saints supporters are so out of touch with what the team is actually doing these days.
Yes, I'd sooner see Kosi take a few marks...and, kick a few goals Here's to hoping he does both this week!
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