well...a jury has to be satisfied beyond all reasonable doubt....evidence of drunks doesn't carry much weight....don't know how drunk the other girl or gram were though.....mini hadn't been drinking at all...but he wasn't there at the time of the alleged incident......have no idea how this will plan out.....if guilty he will do time i would think.....i also have no doubt that the saints admin were keen to see the end of him.....santazzi wrote:The thing which bothers me Stinger is that the major actors are repoted to be ëxtemely dunk" and yet their atterances are at the centre of the case........as a lawyer you know that capacity is a legal and not a social construct ...I am just confused....If the material which is all confused and makes no sense to me that was presented at the commital is repeated at the trial I hate to be on the Jury........he may walk free........stinger wrote:mbogo wrote:I have a question for all you legal experts on here.
If a girl starts having sex with someone she starts kissing when pissed and half unconscious - then half way through decides that she has started off with the "wrong bloke" - and objects!
That becomes rape at that point in time, doesn't it?
But what a messy f*ckin scenario!
t.
short answer?.......yes.....even if she had started off with the right bloke.....she can withdraw her consent at any time......rough eh???
Five saints called in Lovett case
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Last edited by stinger on Fri 13 Aug 2010 7:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Bernard Shakey
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bobmurray
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Your being a bit selective here narrowing the hijacking of this thread down to these 2....what about the other"look at me"clowns.....saint66au wrote:Grumps. much as I dont really agree with what you say..thanks for getting things back on topic
Once again the stinger/plugger show hijacks a thread and bores everyone senseless
You two dont like each other? Fine, Build a freaking bridge and stop baiting each other every time you post in the same thread eh? It realllly is coma-inducing
Saints looking like a bottom 4 team in 2024.
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markp
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And from the hun...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 5904960461
Personally, I find it all very sad and sickening.
And allowing yourself to get blind drunk in public (and/or taking someone that drunk home with you) when you have such a profile, can only end in tears.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 5904960461
Personally, I find it all very sad and sickening.
And allowing yourself to get blind drunk in public (and/or taking someone that drunk home with you) when you have such a profile, can only end in tears.
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Bernard Shakey
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I disagree.markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
Old enough to repaint, but young enough to sell
+1Bernard Shakey wrote:I disagree.markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
How he can establish consent by a woman in that state seems impossible to me
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GrumpyOne
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How can the evidence of a woman in that state be relied on?Joffa 5 wrote:+1Bernard Shakey wrote:I disagree.markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
How he can establish consent by a woman in that state seems impossible to me
Australia...... Live it like we stole it....... Because we did.
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markp
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Fair enough, but she admitted she couldn't remember half the things she'd said... they could argue/claim 'yes' was among them.Joffa 5 wrote:+1Bernard Shakey wrote:I disagree.markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
How he can establish consent by a woman in that state seems impossible to me
But is yes in that state consent? Surely the law should protect a girl who has had too much to drink and then crashes out to sleep it off. Crashed out on a bed is not an invitation for a stranger to jump aboard. It's predatory behavior from Lovett and should be treated as such.
I shudder to think of this happening to one of my daughters when they're older (although I'd like to think they will have better judgement, but still no excuse)
I shudder to think of this happening to one of my daughters when they're older (although I'd like to think they will have better judgement, but still no excuse)
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Mr Magic
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My understanding is that :-
consent given whilst intoxicated is not 'legal consent'.
For consent to be legal the person giving it must not be under the influence.
Therefore even if she gave consent and doesn't remember it, that fact that all witnesses seem to be saying she was under the influence of alcohol makes it irrelevant.
consent given whilst intoxicated is not 'legal consent'.
For consent to be legal the person giving it must not be under the influence.
Therefore even if she gave consent and doesn't remember it, that fact that all witnesses seem to be saying she was under the influence of alcohol makes it irrelevant.
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markp
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Then he may be stuffed.Mr Magic wrote:My understanding is that :-
consent given whilst intoxicated is not 'legal consent'.
For consent to be legal the person giving it must not be under the influence.
Therefore even if she gave consent and doesn't remember it, that fact that all witnesses seem to be saying she was under the influence of alcohol makes it irrelevant.
But that also means on any given friday or saturday night any number of guys could be too...
Not the sort of case I'd like to be a juror on!
markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
...that's a classic case of rape...imho.....everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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ChicagoSaint
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markp
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stinger wrote:markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
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Bernard Shakey
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A rare occasion that we agree.stinger wrote:markp wrote:Oh dear...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/alleg ... 122jw.html
Whether he actually did it or not, I can't really see how they could find him guilty based on that.
:roll: :roll: :roll: ...that's a classic case of rape...imho....
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skeptic
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To me this actually seems pretty open and shut
The moment the girl says "Stop" you have to. If you push past that point IMO that's rape.
Whether she consented when she thought it was Jason or not is irrelevent... Even if she originally consented with Andrew and changed her mind 1/2 way through... if Andrew pushed past the point of consent he is guilty as charged IMO.
The moment the girl says "Stop" you have to. If you push past that point IMO that's rape.
Whether she consented when she thought it was Jason or not is irrelevent... Even if she originally consented with Andrew and changed her mind 1/2 way through... if Andrew pushed past the point of consent he is guilty as charged IMO.
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bigred
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mbogo wrote:Man, it's a lawyers picnic! Wait for the mini-series to hit TV - it'll be bigger than The Club!
And what exactly do you call a group of lawers?
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
ANDREW Lovett tugs his cuffs, but his tie is crooked.
When he stands to face Magistrate Jelena Popovic, he pulls the two sides of his jacket together, fumbles at the buttons then gives up.
Before last Christmas Eve he had a club and a career.
The worst he faced from the Saints playing list was a Leading Teams session and a bit of a bagging.
Now those one-time teammates are lined up in the witness box.
Half-forward Andrew McQualter tells the court about going into attack against Lovett, telling him to "F--- off, get out".
A string of players give evidence, then walk out past Lovett like he isn't there.
They don't appear to appreciate being dragged into court and having their own actions examined, and cross-examined."
...they ARE NOT FORMER TEAM MATES.......the sleezebag never pulled on a saints jumper in a match.....the most he could be called is a saints listed player.....ffs....geez this whole sorry tale pisses me off....
When he stands to face Magistrate Jelena Popovic, he pulls the two sides of his jacket together, fumbles at the buttons then gives up.
Before last Christmas Eve he had a club and a career.
The worst he faced from the Saints playing list was a Leading Teams session and a bit of a bagging.
Now those one-time teammates are lined up in the witness box.
Half-forward Andrew McQualter tells the court about going into attack against Lovett, telling him to "F--- off, get out".
A string of players give evidence, then walk out past Lovett like he isn't there.
They don't appear to appreciate being dragged into court and having their own actions examined, and cross-examined."
...they ARE NOT FORMER TEAM MATES.......the sleezebag never pulled on a saints jumper in a match.....the most he could be called is a saints listed player.....ffs....geez this whole sorry tale pisses me off....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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St Fidelius
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Yeah, agreed...stinger wrote:ANDREW Lovett tugs his cuffs, but his tie is crooked.
When he stands to face Magistrate Jelena Popovic, he pulls the two sides of his jacket together, fumbles at the buttons then gives up.
Before last Christmas Eve he had a club and a career.
The worst he faced from the Saints playing list was a Leading Teams session and a bit of a bagging.
Now those one-time teammates are lined up in the witness box.
Half-forward Andrew McQualter tells the court about going into attack against Lovett, telling him to "F--- off, get out".
A string of players give evidence, then walk out past Lovett like he isn't there.
They don't appear to appreciate being dragged into court and having their own actions examined, and cross-examined."
...they ARE NOT FORMER TEAM MATES.......the sleezebag never pulled on a saints jumper in a match.....the most he could be called is a saints listed player.....ffs....geez this whole sorry tale pisses me off....
Probably why most dislike defence barristers because they know the truth but are paid to get the prosecuted cleared of all charges.
You seem to me that you have never been a defence barrister, but a lawyer...I maybe wrong....
I really don't give a flower if Lovett is mentioned as a former St Kilda player or not....
Yes he is a sleaze bag and one would hope that comes up at his trial that the process of electing a jury is a good one....
Unlike what happened with the Walsh St killings...
I had involvement with that case as well , with OP's and LD's, but it is all up with the jury....
In that case the judge was clearly disgusted with the juries verdict and when McEvoy shouted out threats to some police members for wrongful arrest and demanded compensation, the judge just waved it off...
The jury selection is the key IMO...
Clue...
Forget the crapola that the alleged victim was intoxicated...
That is not an excuse while she was flaked out in bed....
More will be said (hopefully)
Don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel to appear, run down there and light the bloody thing yourself!
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Con Gorozidis
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well sadly the damage was done. not sure roo could have contributed much at 3am in a crowd full of boozed up players.saintnick12 wrote:Yeah, I thought the same. He apparently said in his statement that Fisher sounded frantic and said there were police there - yet admits he turned his phone off thinking they were joking. Not a good look from the captain of the club...One of the other clubs leaders ringing him in a crisis and getting that reaction...particularly as Roo was there earlier in the night. Certainly does not paint Roo in a good light.saint66au wrote:Just one comment from the reams of media dedicated to it made me think a little..
Anyone else think that, as captain of an AFL Club, Roo perhaps was a tad hasty thinking Chipper's urgent call at 2.30am was a prank, and turning off his phone..even if he was asleep?
Reckon he'd do it differently if he had his time again