Our bottom six

[OneEyedSainter77]

I was listening to SEN this morning on the way into work and Matthew Lloyd was talking about which team had the better 'bottom six'

Personally I hate the term 'bottom six' because it implies six players are worse than everyone else in the team and premierships are won by a team not the individuals.

However it is a known fact (or at least a coincidence) that the team whose bottom six stands up better on Grand Final day usually wins the Premiership.

He had our bottom six as McQualter, Dempster, Eddy, McEvoy, Peake and Kosi.

I agreed with all except Peake, instead replacing him with Dawson.

Anyway, I came up with the following list; just to make clear, this is only my opinion - I'm not saying these are our bottom six or anything. Just what I think.

Enjoy:

TOP SIX - Consistently reliable 
Roo - I don't think any more needs to be said. 
Hayes - rarely has a bad game. 
BJ - when fully fit, he is our X-factor
Fisher - disposal the only issue
Joey - one of our more underrated mids
Dal - unfortunately susceptible to a tag but has the silkiest skills of anyone in the team. 

TIER TWO PLAYERS - often reliable
Milne - has stepped up this year. Added an extra notch to his gameday belt. 
Schneider - likewise, more time in the midfield, roaming small forward region has him more dangerous
Gardiner - a game breaker.  
Gram - when fit and on song is structurally one of our most important players. 
Jones - not only an excellent tagger but also pretty damaging when he gets the ball too. 

TIER THREE PLAYERS - usually reliable
Gwilt - disposal can be an issue but wonderful mark
Gilbert - terrific mark although tends to kick without looking. 
Blake - solid player but takes his time disposing of the ball sometimes. 
Ray - Very handy player, well developed 
Peake - offers pace and is dangerous when forward 

BOTTOM SIX - occasionally reliable
Mini - ferocious tackler. Rarely sighted
McEvoy - it's all about development. Still young, still learning
Eddy - as above. Great hard player. 
Dempster - as above.  
Dawson - Structurally very vital - discipline an issue.  
Kosi - does the odd good thing but rarely takes the game by the scruff of the neck. 

[gringo]

I would bump Schnides into top tier this year and Gilbo at least in second.

[gringo]

The most insulting thing about that grass chuckers assessment was that he claimed Collingwoods teenage brigade were a lot better than our bottom six and didn't need to worry. Says ours is more vulnerable. If those guys are our bottom six players we are pretty lucky.

[FQF]

That's all very well, but it doesn't mean much unless its contrasted with Collingwood.

[OneEyedSainter77]

The most insulting thing about that grass chuckers assessment was that he claimed Collingwoods teenage brigade were a lot better than our bottom six and didn't need to worry. Says ours is more vulnerable. If those guys are our bottom six players we are pretty lucky.

That is exactly what i thought.

I meant to put that in my OP but forgot to write it.

From memory he had Blair, Goldsack, Toovey, Reid, Brown and Dawes

I will do Collingwood's bottom six later because i need to have a better look at their team.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Right I can't be bothered doin the whole Collingwood team so here's just what I think is their bottom six - chosen because of lack of experience (they have seven players who will have played under 50 games)

Blair - Young and very inexperienced. Has shown some promise however I really feel his youth makes him more susceptible to pressure.

Reid - Solid defender however still very young and inexperienced

N. Brown - Reliable defender yet susceptible to strong forwards.

McAffer - Like Blair, shows promise but still young and inexperienced.

Dawes - Can be flashy at times but once again, youth and inexperience may let him down.

Goldsack - More expereinced than some of the other players around him (such as Beams and Sidebottom) however he is sort of like McQulater for us - in the team for a reason, ferocious at the ball and a hard player but too often he just goes missing.

[spert]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

[rodgerfox]

However it is a known fact (or at least a coincidence) that the team whose bottom six stands up better on Grand Final day usually wins the Premiership.

No it's not.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

[rodgerfox]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

Concur.

[FQF]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

Our top six is quite a bit better than theres.

It might even out a little bit as you move down the list... not sure.

[rodgerfox]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

It's who fires more.

If Lenny fired more than Chapman last year, we'd have won.

If any one of our 'top 6' fired a little more, we'd have won. They are the guys that win games.

Very, very rare for a 'no-name' or a 'bottom 6' player to win the Norm Smith Medal.

[The Saintsational Man]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

If Ball's in their top 6, they're in trouble.

[SainterK]

Well at least our side has a premiership player in our bottom 6

[FQF]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

If Ball's in their top 6, they're in trouble.

Jolly above Ball.

You'd think their captain would be in the top 6 though...

[OneEyedSainter77]

However it is a known fact (or at least a coincidence) that the team whose bottom six stands up better on Grand Final day usually wins the Premiership.

No it's not.

I know that - take not of the bolded post.

I'm not saying its the only reason either - there are many reasons but usually this is the case.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

If Ball's in their top 6, they're in trouble.

Jolly above Ball.

You'd think their captain would be in the top 6 though...

This isn't their top six this is my opinon of what I think their top six is... and I don't rate Maxwell as much as Ball or Jolly - to be honest, Jolly missed out because of the role Ball plays being more important - Collingwood don't really have any better inside midfielders.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Bottom 6's don't mean much if your top 6 are not firing. If a team's top 6 are not firing, that team will probably lose.

True but given this is a GF you would expect both team's top six would fire.

FWIW I have their top six as (in order) Swan, Didak, Pendlebury, O'Brien, Shaw, Ball.

It's who fires more.

If Lenny fired more than Chapman last year, we'd have won.

If any one of our 'top 6' fired a little more, we'd have won. They are the guys that win games.

Very, very rare for a 'no-name' or a 'bottom 6' player to win the Norm Smith Medal.

that's a good point and i get where you're saying.

See, this is why I hate the premise of "bottom six" - because it just leads to arguments.

Personally, I think the whole bottom six thing is a bit harsh but you have to look at it objectively.

Which six players are the worst on any given team's list?

I've picked six from us and six from theirs.

I think our bottom six are far better than their bottom six.

[InkerSaint]

Matthew Haemorrhoid?

He would have NFI about our bottom six.

He should know better than to put his foot in his mouth again, you would have thought once a season would be enough.

Our "bottom six" was supposedly the reason that Geelong were going to beat us by 4 goals in round 13.

Dunce.

[ark]

I don't like Lloyd and don't agree with him, but at least he listed some players.

Dermot a couple of days ago pronounced the Filth's bottom 4 (or maybe 6) better than ours - but he could not even name who he thought ours were! Another well researched Dermot statement....

[stevie]

However it is a known fact (or at least a coincidence) that the team whose bottom six stands up better on Grand Final day usually wins the Premiership.

No it's not.

Agree with Rodge here. Geelong's bottom 6 didn't do much last year.

And I would have Cloke in that top 6. Sure, he's not as good as he thinks he is, but he takes a strong mark.

[bozza1980]

The whole "bottom 6" talk is just a way for a coward to whack sides they don't rate without having to justify their opinion.

It's rubbish, another way to sound insightful while offering nothing.

[bergholt]

top six (reliably a-grade):

riewoldt, hayes, goddard, montagna, dal santo, fisher
swan, didak, pendlebury, jolly, cloke, shaw

next four (good but play some quiet games):

gilbert, jones, milne, schneider
maxwell, thomas, ball, o'brien

next six (generally good but have some invisible games):

gardiner, gram, gwilt, ray, peake, blake
johnson, wellingham, sidebottom, beams, l brown, toovey

bottom six (very variable in performance):

koschitzke, mcevoy, dawson, dempster, eddy, mcqualter
dawes, n brown, reid, macaffer, goldsack, blair


i agree that in general it's not about the bottom six.

however, i think that given the specific makeup of the nominal bottom sixes, a poor performance from the pies bottom six - specifically reid and n brown - has a much bigger impact on their team than a poor performance from the saints bottom six. their defence has less redundancy than ours.

[devil saint]

Our top 6 is the very best top 6 in the league bar none. This thread has given me much confidence. If we bring our intensity (which we undoubtedly will - it is the grand final!) then we cannot lose!!!

[FQF]

Our top 6 is the very best top 6 in the league bar none. This thread has given me much confidence. If we bring our intensity (which we undoubtedly will - it is the grand final!) then we cannot lose!!!

Completely agree.

Possibly Geelong are close, but our Top 6 is absolutely brilliant.

The very best.