Lyon Pulls out

[SaintPav]

Lyon was a very good coach in my opinion. Had his weaknesses which I won't go over as it's been done to death but this one stat still leaves me amazed:

We lost 3 games for the entire 2009 season by the cumulative total of just 19 points.

Amazing.

Yeah, and that includes a 6 pointer that hit the post and a goal kicked after the siren with no one on the mark with the player overstepping by metres as no saints player gave a f***.

Good point. So that means 3 losses by a cumulative total of 8 points and still no chocolates.

That is horrifying.

[Teflon]

!	Message from: Teflon
	FAKE NEWS

Careful. You’re softening your tone

First he was a super coach …and he was a great match day coach…to now “Lyon was a good coach”

Next thing you know you’ll be thinking he was bog average and he should have done better

No again *sigh* as others have denoted ad nauseum you don’t read very well
I’ve never said Lyon was a “super coach” please re post where I said he was a “super coach”??
It’s one thing not to be able to admit you’re wrong
It’s another all together to start making rubbish up

Careful Pinocchio. You’re nose will grow

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 2#p1844752

“At that time” ...You left that bit out Josh - you’d get a gig with Putin’s media with type of censorship

Can I just ba k that statement up with some facts - name the AFLs Coach of the Year in 2009 DESPITE losing the GF Josh?????

They don’t hand that out if you’re Shyte....

So yeah 2009 Lyon WAS a super coach backed up again by the facts.

Is he an all time great super coach? - no because he didn’t manage a flag.

Do try and keep up Josh...

You carrrrrn’t ….backtrack…..you caaaarn’t. Whether it’s in the context of he was a super coach for a millisecond or a minute or a year or the coach of the decade or as you put ‘our most successful coach’ in the last 40 years, it’s been pointed out to as you requested …

I’ve never said Lyon was a “super coach” please re post where I said he was a “super coach”??

You denied saying it….You said you NEVER called him a super coach!!

You Carrrrrn’t Say….on the one hand he was a ‘super coach at the time’ and then in another sentence say You Never used the word super

Do you like my emphasis on ‘Carrrrn’t’?

You quoted and agreed to another poster who called him outstanding. You wanted me to to point where you called Lyon a super coach

Sorry….If you can’t admit you said it You have lost credibility …again

I have a feeling there’s some emojis coming up in your reply. Don’t bother. I’m not going to read it

No need for emojis Josh cause you’re playing semantics and are worse than Trump - here’s what I said Josh ...so tell me what part of below is wrong??? I suspect you can’t cause that’d require you to muster a football related opinion...something you seem incapable of doing..(look no emojis!!!)


“Yeah well said
Super coach at THAT time game has now passed him by
I look back and think leaving us was a good thing for both - Ross has NEVER developed a side so can’t be an all time great imo”

[Teflon]

Lyon was a very good coach in my opinion. Had his weaknesses which I won't go over as it's been done to death but this one stat still leaves me amazed:

We lost 3 games for the entire 2009 season by the cumulative total of just 19 points.

Amazing.

Yeah, and that includes a 6 pointer that hit the post and a goal kicked after the siren with no one on the mark with the player overstepping by metres as no saints player gave a f***.

Good point. So that means 3 losses by a cumulative total of 8 points and still no chocolates.

That is horrifying.

Yup
Underlines the whole point really
It’s a game of inches and we blew it
I’d argue the coach did his job to get us that close but when it comes down to individual acts of brilliance or luck there’s not much he’s gonna do to change that
People crap on “he coulda played Luke Ball...” ..”he coulda played kids....” ...”he coulda ...he coulda..””
It’s all after the fact BS guess work that no one knows how it would’ve affected the result
Shanahan could’ve been moved off Jarman earlier too - didn’t happen and we’ll never know.
Fact is he coached well in 2009 - people can’t separate their hate for the guy from facts and that’s just utter garbage

[asiu]

!	Message from: Teflon
	FAKE NEWS

thats good

[B.M]

Teflon, I was talking about Career All Australians - not just 2009

He had the following players who were good enough to make AA at some point in their career

1. M.Gardiner 2003
2. L.Hayes 2003, 2005, 2009
3. N.Reiwoldt 2004, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2014
4. N.Dal Santo 2005, 2009, 2011
5. L.Ball 2005
6. S.Fisher 2008
7. L.Montagna 2009, 2010
8. B.Goddard 2009, 2010
9. S.Milne 2012, 2013
10. S.Dempster 2013, 2014

Now that’s some talent to work with!!!!

[Teflon]

Teflon, I was talking about Career All Australians - not just 2009

He had the following players who were good enough to make AA at some point in their career

1. M.Gardiner 2003
2. L.Hayes 2003, 2005, 2009
3. N.Reiwoldt 2004, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2014
4. N.Dal Santo 2005, 2009, 2011
5. L.Ball 2005
6. S.Fisher 2008
7. L.Montagna 2009, 2010
8. B.Goddard 2009, 2010
9. S.Milne 2012, 2013
10. S.Dempster 2013, 2014

Now that’s some talent to work with!!!!

No question and if it’s just rolling AA representative that your using to signify talent at disposal how many did the guru Grant Thomas have at his disposal to not make a GF??

Jones
Hayes
Gehrig
Riewoldt
Harvey
Luke Ball
Milne
Montagna
S Fisher
Hudgton
Gilbert

Anyway that’s no excuse we all know St Kilda has had talented sides and all bar 66 have failed but I maintain you still have to make a GF to earn the right to be Premiers and Lyons sides at least have us that opportunity

Would you rather make a GF and lose or fall in consecutive Prelims????

[Scollop]

Do you want to be a very good team in Home and Away and a powerhouse in Finals or would you prefer to be the best team all year with an amazing record against ALL oponnents in home and away...but a GF loser?

Would you rather have your heart ripped out quickly or slowly?

How do you prefer to suffer with your long term anguish and regret; every month or annually?

[takeaway]

Do you want to be a very good team in Home and Away and a powerhouse in Finals or would you prefer to be the best team all year with an amazing record against ALL oponnents in home and away...but a GF loser?

Would you rather have your heart ripped out quickly or slowly?

How do you prefer to suffer with your long term anguish and regret; every month or annually?

Difficult question. I'll consider and get back to you in a couple of weeks.

In the meantime, both of the above are far more preferable than getting to Prelim finals and bowing out, never getting to the big show, and knowing deep down that you don't have the game plan (or coach), to win a GF anyway.

[B.M]

I’d rather win a grand final

No prizes for second

[B.M]

Hudghton and Gilbert were never AAs

[Teflon]

Hudghton and Gilbert were never AAs

Sorry both made AA squads but I think you get the jist of the argument....plenty of talent all round
How many AA in Melb 2021 side more than GT had at his disposal?

[Teflon]

I’d rather win a grand final

No prizes for second

Very hard to do from Prelim losses..

[Teflon]

Do you want to be a very good team in Home and Away and a powerhouse in Finals or would you prefer to be the best team all year with an amazing record against ALL oponnents in home and away...but a GF loser?

Would you rather have your heart ripped out quickly or slowly?

How do you prefer to suffer with your long term anguish and regret; every month or annually?

Difficult question. I'll consider and get back to you in a couple of weeks.

In the meantime, both of the above are far more preferable than getting to Prelim finals and bowing out, never getting to the big show, and knowing deep down that you don't have the game plan (or coach), to win a GF anyway.

Spot on TA you’ve nailed it
It’s frustrating to have to explain this because the choice is clear and could only be argued by people being bloody minded
Anyway let’s move on
Lyon was a great coach in his day but his day is done
GT was an OK caretaker coach who stayed too long
Think we can all accept that and move even Josh

[B.M]

Were we favourite to win either prelim?

We went into both games (and especially the elimination final vs Melbourne)
Absolutely smashed by injury

Did well to get within a goal of eventual premiers (and Minor premiers) Port on their deck

Sydney (also eventual premiers) we were in front at 3q time and injuries took their toll and they ran over the top.

Both years we had a lot of young players and lacked finals experience

2009/2010 a lot of players had gone through 04-05-06-08 finals series and were 50-100 games more experienced

[Teflon]

Were we favourite to win either prelim?

We went into both games (and especially the elimination final vs Melbourne)
Absolutely smashed by injury

Did well to get within a goal of eventual premiers (and Minor premiers) Port on their deck

Sydney (also eventual premiers) we were in front at 3q time and injuries took their toll and they ran over the top.

Both years we had a lot of young players and lacked finals experience

2009/2010 a lot of players had gone through 04-05-06-08 finals series and were 50-100 games more experienced

Here comes some more excuses!!! Love it now GT only had babes in his sides with Hamill Gehrig Harvey Thompson Peckett Jones Powell and an avg age in 2005 of just under 24 ranked 4th in the league......
you’ll need to do better
Oh injuries I hear you say???
I think Lyon demanded Dave Misson(?) because he took over the absolute debacle that was “training services” ( I still laugh at that corporate BS he used to sprout)
Once again GT took them to the movies....maybe he’d have been better investing a little more in player fitness and recovery ??????
Good management by Lyon to recognise it.

[B.M]

Can’t get past the fact

Lyon did not win a premiership with the best team in it!

Almost stole one in 2010 (thanks Hayes and BJ) but got a dose of reality the next week.

[Teflon]

Can’t get past the fact

Lyon did not win a premiership with the best team in it!

Almost stole one in 2010 (thanks Hayes and BJ) but got a dose of reality the next week.

But I can get past the fact THE TEAM didn’t win it (cause the coach overrated remember you keep telling us?)
And the other FACT we played off in consecutive GFs
GT = zip, nada, nothing

[happy feet]

I guess this is fast becoming ancient history. You can’t unring the bell. I guess one thing we can all agree upon is that we are very tired of waiting for a Premiership. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see us winning one in the near future.

[B.M]

Both

Zip, nada, nothing!!!

Actually both won Wizard Woks!!!

[Josh Battle]

I guess this is fast becoming ancient history. You can’t unring the bell. I guess one thing we can all agree upon is that we are very tired of waiting for a Premiership. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see us winning one in the near future.

Chin up HF. I am confident that our time will come. Gil knows that the ending of Premiership droughts is good for business

Kind of reminds me of that video where Ross Lyon expresses his doubt (early on in the first 2-3 minutes) and puts on display the NEGATIVITY that symbolises his coaching.

https://www.dicksonfilms.com.au/the-challenge

Lyon wasn’t confident of winning the GF in 2010 ‘because Collingwood were so strong’!! Lyon says he knew the players would ‘give super effort’ but ...he ‘wasn’t sure we’d get close based on form’.

How’s that for inner confidence? How’s that for belief in your ability and belief in the passion and skill and commitment of your players?

What a novice!

[saynta]

I guess this is fast becoming ancient history. You can’t unring the bell. I guess one thing we can all agree upon is that we are very tired of waiting for a Premiership. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see us winning one in the near future.

Chin up HF. I am confident that our time will come. Gil knows that the ending of Premiership droughts is good for business

Kind of reminds me of that video where Ross Lyon expresses his doubt (early on in the first 2-3 minutes) and puts on display the NEGATIVITY that symbolises his coaching.

https://www.dicksonfilms.com.au/the-challenge

Lyon wasn’t confident of winning the GF in 2010 ‘because Collingwood were so strong’!! Lyon says he knew the players would ‘give super effort’ but ...he ‘wasn’t sure we’d get close based on form’.

How’s that for inner confidence? How’s that for belief in your ability and belief in the passion and skill and commitment of your players?

What a novice!

You say what a novice, but I say what a prick.

[Teflon]

I guess this is fast becoming ancient history. You can’t unring the bell. I guess one thing we can all agree upon is that we are very tired of waiting for a Premiership. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see us winning one in the near future.

Chin up HF. I am confident that our time will come. Gil knows that the ending of Premiership droughts is good for business

Kind of reminds me of that video where Ross Lyon expresses his doubt (early on in the first 2-3 minutes) and puts on display the NEGATIVITY that symbolises his coaching.

https://www.dicksonfilms.com.au/the-challenge

Lyon wasn’t confident of winning the GF in 2010 ‘because Collingwood were so strong’!! Lyon says he knew the players would ‘give super effort’ but ...he ‘wasn’t sure we’d get close based on form’.

How’s that for inner confidence? How’s that for belief in your ability and belief in the passion and skill and commitment of your players?

What a novice!

LMAO
I call that reality
We nearly STOLE the GF in 2010 we weren’t the best side and had Cloke kicked straight we’d never have been in it
1 week later proved that.
Ofcourse Ross used that in his motivation speech to players cause you were on the inner circle...
suspect you preferred the “rainbow and lollipops” type of optimism that really has a bearing on the games outcome ..

[Wayne42]

[Scollop]

LMAO

Teflon saying that Lyon made up that stuff on the video. Ok, fine...What's new?

Lyon has no credibility. Can't be trusted for what he says and has no integrity. Tell us something we don't know

[samoht]

Lyon couldn't develop a polaroid, but he expected his sides to somehow improve and execute in big games despite this. How?
He left both clubs he coached in a much worse state than when he arrived.

And he preferred ready-made and recycled hacks over developing and encouraging promising youngsters like Lynch, Steven and Armo - that says it all.

He was all about taking short cuts and cutting corners, ... so it's no surprise that he only ever wanted the gig at Carlton if it fell into his lap.