What a liabilty Saad is

[plugger66]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

Rubbish. Obviously he will play young guys that wont be ready to give experience but the best experience is winning. Also AR needs to keep him job and one win this year and bottom again next year wont keep his job. And why would Saad play if he isn't trying to win. He isn't young or the future. Same with Schneider. You have to have a balance between winning and blooding kids.

Not rubbish at all you know it all. Geez, you are rude worse than anyone else i have had the misfortune to run into on SS by a country mile.

Alright then crap. How should I write something that I believe is rubbish? Its hardly insulting. It isn't a personal attack on you. And I doubt we have ever run into each other. Im happy to show you posts where you have insulted me more than saying rubbish. Please don't dish it out if you cant take it. Just a little advise and for free.

Not crap either. I'm just telling it like it is, including your rudeness. It's just not my opinion on the draft pick comment. My source has credibility. And for the record, you can keep your advice to yourself. It's not needed or appreciated.

Lets be totally honest you have no source and I certainly don't. Why would Saad be playing if what you say is true and why Schneider or Fisher. And why would AR agree to such rubbish?

For longer term gain. obviously.

Not if he is sacked. Also what about Saad, Fisher and Schneider. Why play them. Even Dempster or Ray in the practice games. Im sorry but I add it up and 2+ 2 equalling about 712.

[saynta]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

Rubbish. Obviously he will play young guys that wont be ready to give experience but the best experience is winning. Also AR needs to keep him job and one win this year and bottom again next year wont keep his job. And why would Saad play if he isn't trying to win. He isn't young or the future. Same with Schneider. You have to have a balance between winning and blooding kids.

Not rubbish at all you know it all. Geez, you are rude worse than anyone else i have had the misfortune to run into on SS by a country mile.

Alright then crap. How should I write something that I believe is rubbish? Its hardly insulting. It isn't a personal attack on you. And I doubt we have ever run into each other. Im happy to show you posts where you have insulted me more than saying rubbish. Please don't dish it out if you cant take it. Just a little advise and for free.

Not crap either. I'm just telling it like it is, including your rudeness. It's just not my opinion on the draft pick comment. My source has credibility. And for the record, you can keep your advice to yourself. It's not needed or appreciated.

Lets be totally honest you have no source and I certainly don't. Why would Saad be playing if what you say is true and why Schneider or Fisher. And why would AR agree to such rubbish?

For longer term gain. obviously.

Not if he is sacked. Also what about Saad, Fisher and Schneider. Why play them. Even Dempster or Ray in the practice games. Im sorry but I add it up and 2+ 2 equalling about 712.

I haven't a clue why you would play Saad, or even why you would redraft him in the first place. Your guess would be as good as mine. I presume the others are played because of ;

1. the money they are on
2. to help the kids
3' to stop us from getting absolutely slaughtered, and
4. because they derseve to get picked.

[Con Gorozidis]

But once again AR backing his players can just as easily be seen as a lack of faith in their replacements in the squad.
I think noone can argue Saad was very very poor in 2013 and at 25 very lucky indeed to get re dratfted.

Had pretty similar numbers in 2013 as MInchington did last year, who was also pretty lucky to be upgraded.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... fopt2=2014

I've no doubt Richo will cycle the players through this year.

Minch in 2014 = 20yo
Saad in 2013 = 23.

I also recall Minch had some huge VFL games late last year.

And its also not really right to say we are slowly developing him in the VFL. We all know it doesn't work like that. He is on the last year of his contract. Time is ticking for him. Its a cut throat business. He has already missed the opportunity to play 3 ordinary sides (GC, GWS and Carlton). Opportunities are running out for him. I am certainly not saying he is going to make it - but Id like to give him a fair go so we can make an informed decision either way. Its costing us nothing to give him this opportunity because we gain nothing from playing Saad every week because I think we have enough information to know Saad isn't an AFL player. Its also not 'gifting games'. So that argument is also a fizzer.

[dragit]

its round 5

[saynta]

its round 5

Con's right imho.

[saintspremiers]

its round 5

Isn't it great how fired up we are already?

Wait until round 15 after our 10th thrashing for the year and we won't give a stuff anymore

[plugger66]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

Rubbish. Obviously he will play young guys that wont be ready to give experience but the best experience is winning. Also AR needs to keep him job and one win this year and bottom again next year wont keep his job. And why would Saad play if he isn't trying to win. He isn't young or the future. Same with Schneider. You have to have a balance between winning and blooding kids.

Not rubbish at all you know it all. Geez, you are rude worse than anyone else i have had the misfortune to run into on SS by a country mile.

Alright then crap. How should I write something that I believe is rubbish? Its hardly insulting. It isn't a personal attack on you. And I doubt we have ever run into each other. Im happy to show you posts where you have insulted me more than saying rubbish. Please don't dish it out if you cant take it. Just a little advise and for free.

Not crap either. I'm just telling it like it is, including your rudeness. It's just not my opinion on the draft pick comment. My source has credibility. And for the record, you can keep your advice to yourself. It's not needed or appreciated.

Lets be totally honest you have no source and I certainly don't. Why would Saad be playing if what you say is true and why Schneider or Fisher. And why would AR agree to such rubbish?

For longer term gain. obviously.

Not if he is sacked. Also what about Saad, Fisher and Schneider. Why play them. Even Dempster or Ray in the practice games. Im sorry but I add it up and 2+ 2 equalling about 712.

I haven't a clue why you would play Saad, or even why you would redraft him in the first place. Your guess would be as good as mine. I presume the others are played because of ;

1. the money they are on
2. to help the kids
3' to stop us from getting absolutely slaughtered, and
4. because they derseve to get picked.

The club must have really panicked round one when we could have won and been devastated round 2 when we did win. Luckily we lost on Saturday even though it may cost us 500K contract. The main point is we don't need to try and lose, we aren't good enough anyway but I reckon the club, everyone at the club, is trying to win every game. No way is their aim all about losing and draft picks.

[dragit]

its round 5

Con's right imho.

I agree that Saad should be dropped, not that we can rule a line through his name forever. If he slays the VFL then he comes in again.

Also I wouldn't be bringing Minchington in instead, really the last thing we need is another small forward… much rather see more mids tried - McKenzie, Acres or even Webster.

[HitTheBoundary]

its round 5

Con's right imho.

I agree that Saad should be dropped, not that we can rule a line through his name forever. If he slays the VFL then he comes in again.

Also I wouldn't be bringing Minchington in instead, really the last thing we need is another small forward… much rather see more mids tried - McKenzie, Acres or even Webster.

McKenzie may make a good sub. Versatile and quick.

[saynta]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

Rubbish. Obviously he will play young guys that wont be ready to give experience but the best experience is winning. Also AR needs to keep him job and one win this year and bottom again next year wont keep his job. And why would Saad play if he isn't trying to win. He isn't young or the future. Same with Schneider. You have to have a balance between winning and blooding kids.

Not rubbish at all you know it all. Geez, you are rude worse than anyone else i have had the misfortune to run into on SS by a country mile.

Alright then crap. How should I write something that I believe is rubbish? Its hardly insulting. It isn't a personal attack on you. And I doubt we have ever run into each other. Im happy to show you posts where you have insulted me more than saying rubbish. Please don't dish it out if you cant take it. Just a little advise and for free.

Not crap either. I'm just telling it like it is, including your rudeness. It's just not my opinion on the draft pick comment. My source has credibility. And for the record, you can keep your advice to yourself. It's not needed or appreciated.

Lets be totally honest you have no source and I certainly don't. Why would Saad be playing if what you say is true and why Schneider or Fisher. And why would AR agree to such rubbish?

For longer term gain. obviously.

Not if he is sacked. Also what about Saad, Fisher and Schneider. Why play them. Even Dempster or Ray in the practice games. Im sorry but I add it up and 2+ 2 equalling about 712.

I haven't a clue why you would play Saad, or even why you would redraft him in the first place. Your guess would be as good as mine. I presume the others are played because of ;

1. the money they are on
2. to help the kids
3' to stop us from getting absolutely slaughtered, and
4. because they derseve to get picked.

The club must have really panicked round one when we could have won and been devastated round 2 when we did win. Luckily we lost on Saturday even though it may cost us 500K contract. The main point is we don't need to try and lose, we aren't good enough anyway but I reckon the club, everyone at the club, is trying to win every game. No way is their aim all about losing and draft picks.

You have it your way. I know what I believe. Decent draft picks never hurt anyone's future chances.

You are right to a certain extent though. We aren't good enough. The draft picks will take care of themselves anyway.

[saynta]

its round 5

Con's right imho.

I agree that Saad should be dropped, not that we can rule a line through his name forever. If he slays the VFL then he comes in again.

Also I wouldn't be bringing Minchington in instead, really the last thing we need is another small forward… much rather see more mids tried - McKenzie, Acres or even Webster.

Those three are certainly worth a try.

[FQF]

There is no chance we are deliberately tanking.

[Austinnn]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

This is an unsubstantiated pile of horse manure, and a serious accusation. Tanking, are we? Your source? Oh, its 'someone who would know' is it? Fair enough then, seems legit.

Even away from the easy rumours, the facts don't add up. Why would we even tank when we're bad enough? The amount of effort this club has put into promos sponsorship, NZ, etc. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. My fear is that someone out there might take this foolishness seriously.

Some people will believe anything.

Edit: I just read the latest... "I know what I believe" hahahahahahaha! That sentence says it all. I'll try not to get too personal or mean, but look, your opinion is based on nothing of substance and can be easily discredited. Let's leave it there, shall we?

[Austinnn]

But back to the thread.

Saad is no more a liability than Murdoch, Saunders, Curren, Eli, those types of player. A bit older, but so far just a slightly more experienced version. We need to find out about these players now before we start thinking of who we're gunning for at trade time and draft time. Its early, they'll all get a chance. My guess is that Said might get one more week or he won't and he'll get a look in later on the season.

So keep on criticising him and kicking him if it makes you feel better. He will either improve and stay on or stagnate and be replaced. If we'd drafted another 18 yo rookie instead of him, he'd probably be playing Vfl all year with Brendon Payne. Saad probably started in the firsts cos he's one of the few on our list to have played more than 20 games. Richo has backed him as he's obliged to do, but he'll probably make way for a kidsoonish unless he has a blinder against the Dons.

[seano1]

we will be very lucky to find a small forward the likes of Milne..he was and is a freak at playing that possie..........so it doesn`t matter wether its Saad ,Eli. Mitch etc they wont be as good as what we want ....another guy like Milne. Saad has now played 33 games and yes I`m sure like a lot of you he will go to the VFL this week or in 3 weeks .....we are not privy to what the coaches are planning for this year or the next 3 yrs. As for Saad he is a rookie draft.. big deal like a lot of other rookies from this club and other clubs its a 50/50 pick if it works out great if not they get pushed out , and I`m sure that he and the others go out not wanting to have a bad game it just happens .

So can anyone on here guarantee that our no 1 pick is going to be a 200 odd game player ...no one can its luck......

[felix]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

This is an unsubstantiated pile of horse manure, and a serious accusation. Tanking, are we? Your source? Oh, its 'someone who would know' is it? Fair enough then, seems legit.

Even away from the easy rumours, the facts don't add up. Why would we even tank when we're bad enough? The amount of effort this club has put into promos sponsorship, NZ, etc. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. My fear is that someone out there might take this foolishness seriously.

Some people will believe anything.

Edit: I just read the latest... "I know what I believe" hahahahahahaha! That sentence says it all. I'll try not to get too
personal or mean, but look, your opinion is based on nothing of substance and can be easily discredited. Let's leave it there, shall we?

Conspiracy theory alert. ....Maybe Richo doesn't care about winning in NZ too much this year as if one win would make a heap of difference anyway he and the club are more concerned with team building , maybe roo and monty and Webster could have played in nz and that may have been enough to get a win maybe we take paddy off and put saad on etc etc it's not all black and white maybe Richo doesn't make any changes during the game ....there are subtle things that people don't see that can guarantee a loss without being questioned ....we need to guarantee the first draft pick and the players are playing there heart out but the structures or team selection will not allow a win why play saad when Saunders is better, sure we will get beaten by the top teams but playing Carlton with roo the side would have been a different proposition , he will comeback in when we know we will lose there are ways to lose when we look like we are trying our hardest. What's more important , not getting a wooden spoon , finishing fifteenth or getting the number one pick . ..

[Austinnn]

But once again AR 'backing his players' can just as easily be seen as a lack of faith in their replacements in the squad.
List Mgt is a zero sum game. There are winners and losers. Its one thing to 'stick by your players' but that's only half of the equation. When you keep doing that in a losing side you are also eroding the integrity in the selection system and eroding the confidence of those not in the side. Two sides of this coin.


I think noone can argue Saad was very very poor in 2013 and at 25 very lucky indeed to get re dratfted.

Your first point has merit. It certainly can be seen that way. But I would expect a coach of a developing side to back his players for at least 4 games. While we want to win, there's little pressure to make finals this year so we have the 'luxury' of seeing how players cope with adversity, rather than panicking and chopping and changing if they don't perform immediately - a strategy you currently espouse.

What makes Minchington a surer bet than Saad? 2 great games of VFL. Clint Jones is doing great in VFL, Sam Dunell was a regular star for the Zebs. Tom Ledger too. Minch will get his chance anyway.

He certainly won't be thinking "its round 4 and I'm still behind Saad, what's going on?" He'll be encouraged to see his teammate get a proper chance, rather than 1 game to prove yourself then back to the VFL for the rest of the year.

Encouraged because he'll know when its his turn, he'll get the same support.

You say that if the coach KEEPS the same players in losing sides, but continuity is vital at the highest level. Its 4 rounds, not 20, 10, 6. 4 rounds.

You talk a lot about us not having a bob each way, then you want us to keep switching players around in the hope of making the team better. What hope will that give up and coming players?

Let's say you're a small forward, you know the first team's midfield is uncompetitive/inexperienced. You know your coach will give you only one week to prove yourself. How do you get the ball? You're given a role. Do you ignore instructions in the hope of creating something? What happens when you make a mistake, will it play on your mind knowing that you've probably blown your chance for the year... Hey wake up! That gun back man just marked over your head and set up another attack for the opposition. Etc.

You may say that it is part of the deal at the highest level, learn to handle it, but is that the best solution? We are at the bottom, we are having a real good look at these players and how they react to having a bad game, can they improve themselves, and each other? Can people with game experience help first year players? We're finding out. It takes a few weeks, not one or two, don't you reckon? Eroding the integrity of the selection system? Far from it.

We are not a finals team right now, so why add pressure? Hopefully that will come later. Meanwhile, the players ripping up the VFL are finding their own continuity, playing against a variety of teams and players, building their experience, playing in the same formations week after week, learning their role, learning how their teammates play, how best to help them. Good skills to pick up for when the call comes.

Have all you knockers made up your mind about Saad already? Very very poor in 2013? How about just poor? Or even below average? I agree he was lucky to get picked up again. This is a make or beak year for him everyone knows it, especially him. Let's see if he can fire up.

Sorry to rant on, everybody. Spending too much time here again. Glad footy is back! Amidst the disappointment of getting thrashed, its exciting being at the ground floor of this rebuild seeing the green shoots of progress. Not everything will work, but its a fun journey!

[Austinnn]

Conspiracy theory alert. ....Maybe Richo doesn't care about winning in NZ too much this year as if one win would make a heap of difference anyway he and the club are more concerned with team building , maybe roo and monty and Webster could have played in nz and that may have been enough to get a win maybe we take paddy off and put saad on etc etc it's not all black and white maybe Richo doesn't make any changes during the game ....there are subtle things that people don't see that can guarantee a loss without being questioned ....we need to guarantee the first draft pick and the players are playing there heart out but the structures or team selection will not allow a win why play saad when Saunders is better, sure we will get beaten by the top teams but playing Carlton with roo the side would have been a different proposition , he will comeback in when we know we will lose there are ways to lose when we look like we are trying our hardest. What's more important , not getting a wooden spoon , finishing fifteenth or getting the number one pick . ..

Is that the same Saunders everyone was bagging f*** out of when he was in the firsts?

Yep sure Roo could have played. I'll let you in on a little secret: Markworth ain't injured. He never has been. He's such an unbelievable gun that could win games off his own boot that the coaches are terrified of playing him and competing for finals instead of picking up top draft picks.

Someone who would know told me and I know what I believe.

We are not tanking. We don't want to tank. I would rather get pick 8 than pick 1 and a spoon.

[seano1]

But once again AR 'backing his players' can just as easily be seen as a lack of faith in their replacements in the squad.
List Mgt is a zero sum game. There are winners and losers. Its one thing to 'stick by your players' but that's only half of the equation. When you keep doing that in a losing side you are also eroding the integrity in the selection system and eroding the confidence of those not in the side. Two sides of this coin.


I think noone can argue Saad was very very poor in 2013 and at 25 very lucky indeed to get re dratfted.

Your first point has merit. It certainly can be seen that way. But I would expect a coach of a developing side to back his players for at least 4 games. While we want to win, there's little pressure to make finals this year so we have the 'luxury' of seeing how players cope with adversity, rather than panicking and chopping and changing if they don't perform immediately - a strategy you currently espouse.

What makes Minchington a surer bet than Saad? 2 great games of VFL. Clint Jones is doing great in VFL, Sam Dunell was a regular star for the Zebs. Tom Ledger too. Minch will get his chance anyway.

He certainly won't be thinking "its round 4 and I'm still behind Saad, what's going on?" He'll be encouraged to see his teammate get a proper chance, rather than 1 game to prove yourself then back to the VFL for the rest of the year.

Encouraged because he'll know when its his turn, he'll get the same support.

You say that if the coach KEEPS the same players in losing sides, but continuity is vital at the highest level. Its 4 rounds, not 20, 10, 6. 4 rounds.

You talk a lot about us not having a bob each way, then you want us to keep switching players around in the hope of making the team better. What hope will that give up and coming players?

Let's say you're a small forward, you know the first team's midfield is uncompetitive/inexperienced. You know your coach will give you only one week to prove yourself. How do you get the ball? You're given a role. Do you ignore instructions in the hope of creating something? What happens when you make a mistake, will it play on your mind knowing that you've probably blown your chance for the year... Hey wake up! That gun back man just marked over your head and set up another attack for the opposition. Etc.

You may say that it is part of the deal at the highest level, learn to handle it, but is that the best solution? We are at the bottom, we are having a real good look at these players and how they react to having a bad game, can they improve themselves, and each other? Can people with game experience help first year players? We're finding out. It takes a few weeks, not one or two, don't you reckon? Eroding the integrity of the selection system? Far from it.

We are not a finals team right now, so why add pressure? Hopefully that will come later. Meanwhile, the players ripping up the VFL are finding their own continuity, playing against a variety of teams and players, building their experience, playing in the same formations week after week, learning their role, learning how their teammates play, how best to help them. Good skills to pick up for when the call comes.

Have all you knockers made up your mind about Saad already? Very very poor in 2013? How about just poor? Or even below average? I agree he was lucky to get picked up again. This is a make or beak year for him everyone knows it, especially him. Let's see if he can fire up.

Sorry to rant on, everybody. Spending too much time here again. Glad footy is back! Amidst the disappointment of getting thrashed, its exciting being at the ground floor of this rebuild seeing the green shoots of progress. Not everything will work, but its a fun journey!

Well said ....it will all take time to get the mix right and the ride for us will be interesting...theres a good crop of kids and I think there will be more joining them at the next draft and maybe the one after and I guessing you are a realist too ..playing finals are awhile away for us but I`m happy to see them fight it out to the final siren even if getting done by heaps .....as for saad maybe some are unhappy that he`s getting close to their amount of games played for the saints......

[Bunk_Moreland]

its round 5

Con's right imho.

I agree that Saad should be dropped, not that we can rule a line through his name forever. If he slays the VFL then he comes in again.

Also I wouldn't be bringing Minchington in instead, really the last thing we need is another small forward… much rather see more mids tried - McKenzie, Acres or even Webster.

McKenzie may make a good sub. Versatile and quick.

Agreed, out of the three of Webster, Goddard, and DMac he would be most ready. Webster will come back in pretty quick, but needs another run in the twos.

Goddard is coming on nicely and will get his go soon I would think.

Not sure about DMac's defence in the big League though. So as substitute he could come on when the sting has gone out of it, he could be a real weapon and he could ease his way into the big time

[saynta]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

This is an unsubstantiated pile of horse manure, and a serious accusation. Tanking, are we? Your source? Oh, its 'someone who would know' is it? Fair enough then, seems legit.

Even away from the easy rumours, the facts don't add up. Why would we even tank when we're bad enough? The amount of effort this club has put into promos sponsorship, NZ, etc. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. My fear is that someone out there might take this foolishness seriously.

Some people will believe anything.

Edit: I just read the latest... "I know what I believe" hahahahahahaha! That sentence says it all. I'll try not to get too
personal or mean, but look, your opinion is based on nothing of substance and can be easily discredited. Let's leave it there, shall we?

Conspiracy theory alert. ....Maybe Richo doesn't care about winning in NZ too much this year as if one win would make a heap of difference anyway he and the club are more concerned with team building , maybe roo and monty and Webster could have played in nz and that may have been enough to get a win maybe we take paddy off and put saad on etc etc it's not all black and white maybe Richo doesn't make any changes during the game ....there are subtle things that people don't see that can guarantee a loss without being questioned ....we need to guarantee the first draft pick and the players are playing there heart out but the structures or team selection will not allow a win why play saad when Saunders is better, sure we will get beaten by the top teams but playing Carlton with roo the side would have been a different proposition , he will comeback in when we know we will lose there are ways to lose when we look like we are trying our hardest. What's more important , not getting a wooden spoon , finishing fifteenth or getting the number one pick . ..

Exactly.Others can and will believe what they want to believe.Good luck to them.

[RODOS]

Saad can snaffle a goal and has good forward pressure. A footballer he is not. Swap him for Minch/mckenzie/acres/murdoch, hell even J webb could be a better denfensive forward. He should be a coach or someone that works with people, he seems like a lovely guy, which is more impressive than being a good footballer

[plugger66]

I would imagine AR is trying to win games so im doubting he is picking players hoping we lose.

I wouldn't be staking my house on that. I would think this year is all about draft positions/choices and little else.

This is an unsubstantiated pile of horse manure, and a serious accusation. Tanking, are we? Your source? Oh, its 'someone who would know' is it? Fair enough then, seems legit.

Even away from the easy rumours, the facts don't add up. Why would we even tank when we're bad enough? The amount of effort this club has put into promos sponsorship, NZ, etc. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with this. My fear is that someone out there might take this foolishness seriously.

Some people will believe anything.

Edit: I just read the latest... "I know what I believe" hahahahahahaha! That sentence says it all. I'll try not to get too
personal or mean, but look, your opinion is based on nothing of substance and can be easily discredited. Let's leave it there, shall we?

Conspiracy theory alert. ....Maybe Richo doesn't care about winning in NZ too much this year as if one win would make a heap of difference anyway he and the club are more concerned with team building , maybe roo and monty and Webster could have played in nz and that may have been enough to get a win maybe we take paddy off and put saad on etc etc it's not all black and white maybe Richo doesn't make any changes during the game ....there are subtle things that people don't see that can guarantee a loss without being questioned ....we need to guarantee the first draft pick and the players are playing there heart out but the structures or team selection will not allow a win why play saad when Saunders is better, sure we will get beaten by the top teams but playing Carlton with roo the side would have been a different proposition , he will comeback in when we know we will lose there are ways to lose when we look like we are trying our hardest. What's more important , not getting a wooden spoon , finishing fifteenth or getting the number one pick . ..

There is one small issue in what you are saying. We can finish last anyway without trying. Anyone thinking we are leaving players out to tank have really lost the plot. If Rooy and Joey miss this week are they missing just in case we beat Essendon. Under that theory I suppose they cant play again this year just in case they help us win. I expect Jack and Armo to miss this week just in case.

[Austinnn]

Exactly.Others can and will believe what they want to believe.Good luck to them.

That's right. Lucky that YOU know the truth, eh?