Lots of positives today

[stonecold]

As am armchair expert I would have taken Petracca ahead of Paddy and Caleb Daniels ahead of Lonie in 2014. That’s a start

Easy to make that call now!!!!!

Petracca is still overrated, Billings has out performed him!!!!!

No. It was easy to make that call back then. The whole of the AFL industry had Petracca at 1. That is very well documented

So you’ll have no problem providing a link then. Because my recollection is it was out of those two for the last few months before the draft.

Mine too Kosi!!!!!

[desertsaint]

My recollection was that we thought petracca was the best player in the draft but needed a key forward and paddy was a standout and probably the second best prospect.
We also did knockback two top picks for our pick from GWS - most likely 4 and 7.
News articles (caveat emptor) confirm it.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 186e5.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/t ... c449a9219c

[chico2001]

Bunch of fools....wasting membership money. Bains/Pelchen have gone, just need Elshaugh to go and we can start fresh by hiring the best recruiter in the land. I heard we have spent 900k on Freeman, use that money going forward on recruiting, we would get better value. But really I dont have much faith in the competency of this club anymore so the chances of success are very low.

Take away the excuses and what have you got left?

[Crossy66]

As am armchair expert I would have taken Petracca ahead of Paddy and Caleb Daniels ahead of Lonie in 2014. That’s a start

Easy to make that call now!!!!!

Petracca is still overrated, Billings has out performed him!!!!!

No. It was easy to make that call back then. The whole of the AFL industry had Petracca at 1. That is very well documented

And besides, trouts job is to pick the junior who is going to be the best player at senior level. That is actually his job. So yes, we need to wait until players mature and see how they perform as senior players to make a call on how well Trout is doing his job.

In that case, he picked the wrong player, meaning he did poorly in his job. That is how we are judging him.

How else would you judge him?

To answer your question "how else would you judge him?
I disagree that the measurement of a recruiter is "did he pick the best player?" For the most part, most recruiters would have similar top tens year to year. They are the players that are the stand outs at the carnivals over the last 12 or so months. Early picks are about getting a good player not necessarily the best. I.e. Hawks got Hodge, Eagles got Judd. Judd probably the better, but Hawks would have been happy.
So to me the really good recruitment teams are the ones that find great picks later in the draft, the ones that can identify talent thats not so obvious to all.
To illustrate the point, i picked a year, could be any year but i picked 2010. West coast took Gaff at 4 and missed Tom Lynch (GC 11) and heppell (8). Recent consensus seems to be that Lynch is the best player in the league worth $1.5Mil and Gaff much less. So did West Coast do a poor job? If the metric is "did they pick the best player" then probably a fail. But this year Gaff is miles in front.
What about Jack Darling at 26 then Scott Lycett at 27? - Not too bad.
What about the Swans with Luke Parker at 40? - now those sort of picks seperate the men from the boys. But then again, did parker just benefit from being in the best development environment?
What about 3x premiership player Paul Puopolo at 66? - not bad.
The Cats, Swans and Hawks have a knack of finding great picks down the order. No coincidence that they probably lead in stability, culture and development environments.

[Crossy66]

Bunch of fools....wasting membership money. Bains/Pelchen have gone, just need Elshaugh to go and we can start fresh by hiring the best recruiter in the land. I heard we have spent 900k on Freeman, use that money going forward on recruiting, we would get better value. But really I dont have much faith in the competency of this club anymore so the chances of success are very low.

Take away the excuses and what have you got left?

out of curiosity, who do you think is the best recruiter in the land? Who would you suggest for the Roll Chico?
Would we also need hire the other dozen or so members of the recruit team, plus scouts.
What would you budget for this excercise?
Would he be interested?

[takeaway]

Bunch of fools....wasting membership money. Bains/Pelchen have gone, just need Elshaugh to go and we can start fresh by hiring the best recruiter in the land. I heard we have spent 900k on Freeman, use that money going forward on recruiting, we would get better value. But really I dont have much faith in the competency of this club anymore so the chances of success are very low.

Take away the excuses and what have you got left?

So you would go a player short in the squad and put it towards recruiting? Great management, probably not even permitted. Bains was a very good operator, and a big loss. Not a lot of common sense in your posts.

Take away common sense and what have you got left?

[SydneySainter]

I compare to Melbourne because most posters talk about McCartin vs Petracca. If McCartin was the most dominant forward in the country I would have hated to see the rest, he doesnt even have a natural kicking action which would give him accuracy and distance. Who are you trying to kid?
I would have Petracca anyday 48 games at a goal a game and a rising star nominee and can bust a pack open and has good skills. Not sure if some of the posters know what a good footballer looks like.

Look at melbournes lot that I have highlighted....right here...right now......as we speak

*Hogan 60 games at nearly 2.5 goals a game
*Salem 55 games
*Petracca 48-rising star nom
*Viney 90
*Tyson 96
*Brayshaw 43- rising star nom
*Oliver 45
*Hannam 26 at a goal a game

These players are in the same bracket as the saints selections over the years, Melbourne now looks like going into the finals this year and with a strong game plan and a tough bunch of midfielders who can get their own ball and deliver it and most of them can kick a goal

They picked up Lever so he would be equal to Carlisle although I think Carlisle is a better player. They also recruited Hibberd who is a very good player IMO.
Melbourne have 43,000 members


Saints have too many excuses but I do concur with the combination of 3 factors leading to the clubs failure, but recruiting should be number 1 and he/they have failed miserably. I dont care if you isolate Elshaugh out from the club in recruiting or not. If you keep supporting these people and not calling them out we will all end up following a team that wont make the finals for the next 5 years and not only that, in debt up to their eyeballs.

+1

Ok, so Sydneysainter and to a lesser degree chico agree that the problem is a combination of drafting, Development and coaching, therefore not just the fault of recruiting.
Elshaugh answered to Ameet Bains who oversaw recruiting and did list management up until end of 2016 - therefore wouldnt be solely responsible would he?
If you want to hold up Melbourne as the model we should follow, we will need to finish 11, 13, 17, 17, 16,13,12, 16, 16, 14 over a 10 year period to get the same draft picks. Happy with that?

The players you mentioned:
Hogan - good player tick and his best years should be ahead of him. But he was a pick 3
Salem - maybe a B grader taken at pick 9. COuld have had any of Cripps, Sheed,Merritt,Dunstan, Acres Matt Crouch in the same draft -

Petracca rising B grader at this point- Statistically outgunned by Billings, also a rising star nominee, in most areas such as disposals, marks, goal assists, rebound 50's with less cough ups . Not in Melbournes best 1/2 dozen... yet

Viney - good player but a father / son so not really a great draft pick as such
Dom Tyson - lol, currently a reserves player and they basically swapped him for Josh Kelly (pick 2) oops!
Hannan - currently a reserves player
Clayton Oliver - good player big tick
Brayshaw - a gift from the AFL as compensation for Frawley. good player, but could be a concussion or two away from retirement (hope not)

Add to this the players mentioned early that they could have had, i dont think its a benchmark recruiting department and not much to show for the 15 extra top ten picks.
The benchmark for me is Sydney. They do get some benefits via the academy but their development of rookie players is extraordinary and i think this is in part due to culture and structure. Structure you can fix quickly but culture happens over time. So my view is that blaming recruiting in isolation is a little simplistic.
In any case, i thought i heard that Elshaugh was stepping down at the end of the year.

Re: Paddy, assuming he doesnt get another concussion, i still think he will be a good player. Not sure why the knock on his kicking. As a reminder, watch this:

If you want to keep referring to statistics, apparently Ross is pretty much on par with where Fyfe was at the same point of his career, but do you think Ross could become the next Fyfe?

Billing's game may be compelling statistically, but if his statistics continue to tread water and he finally asks for a trade to Essendon at the end of next season, do you think these statistics will give us any bargaining power? They will highlight his wayward kicking at goal and lack of physicality in the contest and offer their second round pick.

Like I said, I never said our plight was all Trout's fault, but him, like other department heads, can't wipe their hands of it either and ALL need to be under the microscope.

We have no star players and apart from Carlisle and Steven, no genuine A-graders either. At best, we have a team of good depth players who would probably look and play better in a better team, but any suggestion that they'll automatically take their game to the next level after the injection of a star FA or two is just wishful thinking.

[IluvHarvey]

Oh my God! Can we give the McCartin bashing a rest?
The kid has played 30 games!
He plays in a team with horrific foot skills which half of them could not hit him on a lead.
He has had a awful run of outs and as yet has not been able to string a decent amount of footy together.

[Crossy66]

I compare to Melbourne because most posters talk about McCartin vs Petracca. If McCartin was the most dominant forward in the country I would have hated to see the rest, he doesnt even have a natural kicking action which would give him accuracy and distance. Who are you trying to kid?
I would have Petracca anyday 48 games at a goal a game and a rising star nominee and can bust a pack open and has good skills. Not sure if some of the posters know what a good footballer looks like.

Look at melbournes lot that I have highlighted....right here...right now......as we speak

*Hogan 60 games at nearly 2.5 goals a game
*Salem 55 games
*Petracca 48-rising star nom
*Viney 90
*Tyson 96
*Brayshaw 43- rising star nom
*Oliver 45
*Hannam 26 at a goal a game

These players are in the same bracket as the saints selections over the years, Melbourne now looks like going into the finals this year and with a strong game plan and a tough bunch of midfielders who can get their own ball and deliver it and most of them can kick a goal

They picked up Lever so he would be equal to Carlisle although I think Carlisle is a better player. They also recruited Hibberd who is a very good player IMO.
Melbourne have 43,000 members


Saints have too many excuses but I do concur with the combination of 3 factors leading to the clubs failure, but recruiting should be number 1 and he/they have failed miserably. I dont care if you isolate Elshaugh out from the club in recruiting or not. If you keep supporting these people and not calling them out we will all end up following a team that wont make the finals for the next 5 years and not only that, in debt up to their eyeballs.

+1

Ok, so Sydneysainter and to a lesser degree chico agree that the problem is a combination of drafting, Development and coaching, therefore not just the fault of recruiting.
Elshaugh answered to Ameet Bains who oversaw recruiting and did list management up until end of 2016 - therefore wouldnt be solely responsible would he?
If you want to hold up Melbourne as the model we should follow, we will need to finish 11, 13, 17, 17, 16,13,12, 16, 16, 14 over a 10 year period to get the same draft picks. Happy with that?

The players you mentioned:
Hogan - good player tick and his best years should be ahead of him. But he was a pick 3
Salem - maybe a B grader taken at pick 9. COuld have had any of Cripps, Sheed,Merritt,Dunstan, Acres Matt Crouch in the same draft -

Petracca rising B grader at this point- Statistically outgunned by Billings, also a rising star nominee, in most areas such as disposals, marks, goal assists, rebound 50's with less cough ups . Not in Melbournes best 1/2 dozen... yet

Viney - good player but a father / son so not really a great draft pick as such
Dom Tyson - lol, currently a reserves player and they basically swapped him for Josh Kelly (pick 2) oops!
Hannan - currently a reserves player
Clayton Oliver - good player big tick
Brayshaw - a gift from the AFL as compensation for Frawley. good player, but could be a concussion or two away from retirement (hope not)

Add to this the players mentioned early that they could have had, i dont think its a benchmark recruiting department and not much to show for the 15 extra top ten picks.
The benchmark for me is Sydney. They do get some benefits via the academy but their development of rookie players is extraordinary and i think this is in part due to culture and structure. Structure you can fix quickly but culture happens over time. So my view is that blaming recruiting in isolation is a little simplistic.
In any case, i thought i heard that Elshaugh was stepping down at the end of the year.

Re: Paddy, assuming he doesnt get another concussion, i still think he will be a good player. Not sure why the knock on his kicking. As a reminder, watch this:

If you want to keep referring to statistics, apparently Ross is pretty much on par with where Fyfe was at the same point of his career, but do you think Ross could become the next Fyfe?

Billing's game may be compelling statistically, but if his statistics continue to tread water and he finally asks for a trade to Essendon at the end of next season, do you think these statistics will give us any bargaining power? They will highlight his wayward kicking at goal and lack of physicality in the contest and offer their second round pick.

Like I said, I never said our plight was all Trout's fault, but him, like other department heads, can't wipe their hands of it either and ALL need to be under the microscope.

We have no star players and apart from Carlisle and Steven, no genuine A-graders either. At best, we have a team of good depth players who would probably look and play better in a better team, but any suggestion that they'll automatically take their game to the next level after the injection of a star FA or two is just wishful thinking.

Interesting fact comparing Ross and Fyfe at the same stage, but i dont expect he will become the next Fyfe. But he will become the next Ross.
Stats are stats and just one factor in rating players. But they do provide some perspective in an emotional discussion.

Looking at Billings statistically was only for the purpose of comparing him to Petracca in the context of the apparent high rating of Petracca and the low one of Billings.
The kicking is absolute above the shoulders and i believe will be fixed. I prefer contested beasts, but its ok to have outside run and carry types with sublime skills.
Agree that every area should be under the microscope - something is not right. i just think its more than recruiting.

We probably differ in how we see the list. I think we have ended up with a very even list thats light on for A graders but also ok at the other end. I think in the right environment there are atleast 1/2 dozen that will end up A Grade. But we will need to grab some midfield class and lose a couple of in and unders types.

I had a bit of a front row seat with the Richmond transformation and we watched them go from 13th to premiership in a season. End of 2016 supporters tried to overthrow the board, wanted Peggy O'neill and Gale and Hardwick sacked, plus marketing dept etc. This would have been another typical Richmond thing to do i.e. eat their own. In the end they stuck fat, did a forensic examination of all areas at the club, made some tweaks and won a flag.
It appears that the biggest change was the coach and players in the room of mirrors.

So Saints should should also do a full independent review , perhaps look at benchmark clubs like Hawks or Swans at the back office and make some tweaks. I think sacking everyone or finding scapegoats is such a historical StKilda thing to do

[saynta]

I compare to Melbourne because most posters talk about McCartin vs Petracca. If McCartin was the most dominant forward in the country I would have hated to see the rest, he doesnt even have a natural kicking action which would give him accuracy and distance. Who are you trying to kid?
I would have Petracca anyday 48 games at a goal a game and a rising star nominee and can bust a pack open and has good skills. Not sure if some of the posters know what a good footballer looks like.

Look at melbournes lot that I have highlighted....right here...right now......as we speak

*Hogan 60 games at nearly 2.5 goals a game
*Salem 55 games
*Petracca 48-rising star nom
*Viney 90
*Tyson 96
*Brayshaw 43- rising star nom
*Oliver 45
*Hannam 26 at a goal a game

These players are in the same bracket as the saints selections over the years, Melbourne now looks like going into the finals this year and with a strong game plan and a tough bunch of midfielders who can get their own ball and deliver it and most of them can kick a goal

They picked up Lever so he would be equal to Carlisle although I think Carlisle is a better player. They also recruited Hibberd who is a very good player IMO.
Melbourne have 43,000 members


Saints have too many excuses but I do concur with the combination of 3 factors leading to the clubs failure, but recruiting should be number 1 and he/they have failed miserably. I dont care if you isolate Elshaugh out from the club in recruiting or not. If you keep supporting these people and not calling them out we will all end up following a team that wont make the finals for the next 5 years and not only that, in debt up to their eyeballs.

+1

Ok, so Sydneysainter and to a lesser degree chico agree that the problem is a combination of drafting, Development and coaching, therefore not just the fault of recruiting.
Elshaugh answered to Ameet Bains who oversaw recruiting and did list management up until end of 2016 - therefore wouldnt be solely responsible would he?
If you want to hold up Melbourne as the model we should follow, we will need to finish 11, 13, 17, 17, 16,13,12, 16, 16, 14 over a 10 year period to get the same draft picks. Happy with that?

The players you mentioned:
Hogan - good player tick and his best years should be ahead of him. But he was a pick 3
Salem - maybe a B grader taken at pick 9. COuld have had any of Cripps, Sheed,Merritt,Dunstan, Acres Matt Crouch in the same draft -

Petracca rising B grader at this point- Statistically outgunned by Billings, also a rising star nominee, in most areas such as disposals, marks, goal assists, rebound 50's with less cough ups . Not in Melbournes best 1/2 dozen... yet

Viney - good player but a father / son so not really a great draft pick as such
Dom Tyson - lol, currently a reserves player and they basically swapped him for Josh Kelly (pick 2) oops!
Hannan - currently a reserves player
Clayton Oliver - good player big tick
Brayshaw - a gift from the AFL as compensation for Frawley. good player, but could be a concussion or two away from retirement (hope not)

Add to this the players mentioned early that they could have had, i dont think its a benchmark recruiting department and not much to show for the 15 extra top ten picks.
The benchmark for me is Sydney. They do get some benefits via the academy but their development of rookie players is extraordinary and i think this is in part due to culture and structure. Structure you can fix quickly but culture happens over time. So my view is that blaming recruiting in isolation is a little simplistic.
In any case, i thought i heard that Elshaugh was stepping down at the end of the year.

Re: Paddy, assuming he doesnt get another concussion, i still think he will be a good player. Not sure why the knock on his kicking. As a reminder, watch this:

If you want to keep referring to statistics, apparently Ross is pretty much on par with where Fyfe was at the same point of his career, but do you think Ross could become the next Fyfe?

Billing's game may be compelling statistically, but if his statistics continue to tread water and he finally asks for a trade to Essendon at the end of next season, do you think these statistics will give us any bargaining power? They will highlight his wayward kicking at goal and lack of physicality in the contest and offer their second round pick.

Like I said, I never said our plight was all Trout's fault, but him, like other department heads, can't wipe their hands of it either and ALL need to be under the microscope.

We have no star players and apart from Carlisle and Steven, no genuine A-graders either. At best, we have a team of good depth players who would probably look and play better in a better team, but any suggestion that they'll automatically take their game to the next level after the injection of a star FA or two is just wishful thinking.

Interesting fact comparing Ross and Fyfe at the same stage, but i dont expect he will become the next Fyfe. But he will become the next Ross.
Stats are stats and just one factor in rating players. But they do provide some perspective in an emotional discussion.

Looking at Billings statistically was only for the purpose of comparing him to Petracca in the context of the apparent high rating of Petracca and the low one of Billings.
The kicking is absolute above the shoulders and i believe will be fixed. I prefer contested beasts, but its ok to have outside run and carry types with sublime skills.
Agree that every area should be under the microscope - something is not right. i just think its more than recruiting.

We probably differ in how we see the list. I think we have ended up with a very even list thats light on for A graders but also ok at the other end. I think in the right environment there are atleast 1/2 dozen that will end up A Grade. But we will need to grab some midfield class and lose a couple of in and unders types.

I had a bit of a front row seat with the Richmond transformation and we watched them go from 13th to premiership in a season. End of 2016 supporters tried to overthrow the board, wanted Peggy O'neill and Gale and Hardwick sacked, plus marketing dept etc. This would have been another typical Richmond thing to do i.e. eat their own. In the end they stuck fat, did a forensic examination of all areas at the club, made some tweaks and won a flag.
It appears that the biggest change was the coach and players in the room of mirrors.

So Saints should should also do a full independent review , perhaps look at benchmark clubs like Hawks or Swans at the back office and make some tweaks. I think sacking everyone or finding scapegoats is such a historical StKilda thing to do

Damn good post mate.

[takeaway]

My recollection was that we thought petracca was the best player in the draft but needed a key forward and paddy was a standout and probably the second best prospect.
We also did knockback two top picks for our pick from GWS - most likely 4 and 7.
News articles (caveat emptor) confirm it.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 186e5.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/t ... c449a9219c

I'm pretty sure it was later established that the actual offer was 4 & 7 for 1 & 21. Cannot verify though.

[To the top]

I repeat the question.

IF we had taken Petracca, who does he compete with for a position in the St Kilda side, a team which Drafted Dunstan and Acres the previous season - and has since added Steele and Stevens?

We also have Ross on our List

And who does Mc Cartin compete with for his position in the St Kilda side, given Riewoldt is now retired?

To take Mc Cartin was the correct decision.

Mid fielders are far, far more plentiful than KPP's and particularly forwards.

What we do need to do is add penetrating run and foot skills to advantage our forwards, both from our mid field rotations and from our defence.

Which brings us back to Ross, Dunstan, Steele and Stevens.

And Number 3, Freeman and Acres each of whom has the attributes to add to the inventiveness and potency of our mid field rotations.

[Scollop]

What has happened to Paddy, that's the question after watching this video. Injured? Concussion affected, coached to mark with flat hands? No encouragement to lead and attack the footy?
It's all very strange!

The coach and footy department asked Rooy to move into the midfield in 2016. It worked well throught that year because Rooy was refreshed with the challenge and still contributing in a major way. The coach, the club, and the supporters were excited because it was the beginning of a plan to have Membrey, Paddy and Josh Bruce playing as the 3 talls and it started to look like we were developing an awesome forward line.

Rooy only had a year left in him at best (although imo he should have retired in 2016 for the benefit of the team and the club and for the benefit of on field leaders being forced to take the reigns). Richo recruited Nathan Brown to St Kilda at the end of 2016 and imo, he and some of the heirarchy thought that we could be serious finals contenders (which imo changed the short term focus from development to instant results). Not sure how influentual the impending retirements of Rooy and Dempester and Montagna had on the heirarchy and on Richo, but this was definitely premature and definitely a mistake imo.

The coach thought that he could not afford to play McCartin in the first few rounds of 2017 because he was not fit enough to play the sort of high pressure game plan that the Doggies played and that we played and that Richo believed would get us into finals. I remember members and supporters being told Paddy wouldn't play seniors because of a tight hamstring in round 1 of 2017 and yet he played VFL that weekend. Over the next few weeks and straight after Rooy came back from injury, the coach preferred to play Rooy at FF instead of Paddy

It wasn't good for his confidence. It wasn't good for the team going forward because they needed time and games together to gell as a unit. It also meant that whatever progress was made in 2016 and whatever momentum the team had was lost as we went back to a 2009 game plan involving a leading FF target that was clearly and most probably NOT going to be part of the team that may be eventual contenders in 2018-2019-2020. I know Paddy got injured later on and we had no choice, but the point is that he initially got injured in the VFL if memory serves me correct and it changed the course of his development

[To the top]

Richmond have Martin, Cochin, Rance and Riewoldt who form their experienced core.

Who do we now have by comparison, given the recent retirements of Riewoldt, Montagna and the under rated Dempster?

Substitute 4 experienced players of the ilk of those Richmond (and most other Clubs) have, putting them into St Kilda's side and you change the equation.

Where is our core of 27 to 30 year olds, 200 games into their careers and leading the side?

The experienced players opposition Clubs need to do work on because they influence the results of games?

St Kilda have experienced, role players the opposition are happy to see the ball in the hands of.

That is the difference.

The ASX is a forward looking utility, priced on potential (so it doesn't say much for Australia's future economic prospects!).

St Kilda are similarly priced on potential and unlike the message the ASX is giving to us, in regards St Kilda the jury is still out on our most recent Drafting.

So we look to see signs of the potential we trust is there - and, in my view, those players have shown the early signs.

Particularly as they play absent an experienced core to take some of the pressures off their young shoulders.

NB: in updating, I note that Riewoldt is selected for Richmond AFTER the very heavy hit he received last week and the resultant concussion which has cost Carlisle 2 weeks.

What a mockery.

No wonder the AFL competition is on the nose as it is with people switching off media coverage and crowds only holding off the back of the Perth Stadium - and that with the leg up the AFL is giving to the Clubs with the largest Membership numbers.

[skeptic]

As am armchair expert I would have taken Petracca ahead of Paddy and Caleb Daniels ahead of Lonie in 2014. That’s a start

Easy to make that call now!!!!!

Petracca is still overrated, Billings has out performed him!!!!!

No. It was easy to make that call back then. The whole of the AFL industry had Petracca at 1. That is very well documented

So you’ll have no problem providing a link then. Because my recollection is it was out of those two for the last few months before the draft.

Mine too Kosi!!!!!

My recollection was that Petracca and Paddy were the clear top 2, but that Petracca was generally regarded as pic 1 by the majority. I remember vague'ish reports that us and one other club rated Paddy at 1 and the rest had Christian.

[Joffa Burns]

Was definitely a call between Paddy and Petracca with Brayshaw sitting third according to all articles read at the time.

Fair to say this place was largely pro Petracca at the time and unfortunately not much has changed.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-11-2 ... tough-call

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl ... 1un55.html

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-26/n ... for-saints

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 891eb22190

[parkeysainter]

Was definitely a call between Paddy and Petracca with Brayshaw sitting third according to all articles read at the time.

Fair to say this place was largely pro Petracca at the time and unfortunately not much has changed.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-11-2 ... tough-call

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl ... 1un55.html

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-26/n ... for-saints

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 891eb22190

People forget that the only key forward we had before Paddy's draft was basically an ageing N. Riewoldt. We had already traded out Stanley (which we used on Goddard). Membrey and Bruce were not key forwards at that stage for us (both came out of nowhere really after Paddy was drafted).

All in all, the Saints needed a key forward based on the above at the time. Its a bit pointless to discuss now anyway, we took Paddy and have to keep making him a better footy player.

[stonecold]

I repeat the question.

IF we had taken Petracca, who does he compete with for a position in the St Kilda side, a team which Drafted Dunstan and Acres the previous season - and has since added Steele and Stevens?

We also have Ross on our List

And who does Mc Cartin compete with for his position in the St Kilda side, given Riewoldt is now retired?

To take Mc Cartin was the correct decision.

Mid fielders are far, far more plentiful than KPP's and particularly forwards.

What we do need to do is add penetrating run and foot skills to advantage our forwards, both from our mid field rotations and from our defence.

Which brings us back to Ross, Dunstan, Steele and Stevens.

And Number 3, Freeman and Acres each of whom has the attributes to add to the inventiveness and potency of our mid field rotations.

Don't agree wth you often, but agree with what you posted here!!!!!

Has your account been hacked, not like you to make so much sense!!!!!

[DJ Higgins]

I agree with the theory but not the selection. Key players are always great gets sure and we could have used one but not paddy. Argue all you want but I wouldn't gamble with a #1 pick and paddy was a gamble with diabetes. He may come good but not a risk worth taking imo. It was just bad timing with roo going so we knee jerked to paddy

[takeaway]

I reckon Brayshaw is now and will end up a better player than Petracca. The big issue with Paddy is staying on the field - if he does over say the next 2-3 years, I think most people with be happy with the selection.

[Crossy66]

I reckon Brayshaw is now and will end up a better player than Petracca. The big issue with Paddy is staying on the field - if he does over say the next 2-3 years, I think most people with be happy with the selection.

Spot on with both points.

[saynta]

At the moment Paddy has my full support.

[To the top]

And with the richoche and transition style of football played today you require involvement skills from every player on the park

Hence we must move past the likes of Longer an Geary

I am putting nothing on here other than what I consistently contribute

Australia were very impressive - now for Russia and the real competition!

[rodgerfox]

I heard we have spent 900k on Freeman, use that money going forward on recruiting, we would get better value.

Some could argue that that is quite short sighted.

If I was a player, and I knew a club would invest heavily in my welfare, I'd be inclined to stay. Or even better, I may be inclined to come to a club that does that sort of thing.

[SydneySainter]

Was definitely a call between Paddy and Petracca with Brayshaw sitting third according to all articles read at the time.

Fair to say this place was largely pro Petracca at the time and unfortunately not much has changed.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-11-2 ... tough-call

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl ... 1un55.html

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-11-26/n ... for-saints

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 891eb22190

People forget that the only key forward we had before Paddy's draft was basically an ageing N. Riewoldt. We had already traded out Stanley (which we used on Goddard). Membrey and Bruce were not key forwards at that stage for us (both came out of nowhere really after Paddy was drafted).

All in all, the Saints needed a key forward based on the above at the time. Its a bit pointless to discuss now anyway, we took Paddy and have to keep making him a better footy player.

Yes, we traded out Stanley for pick 21 which we used on Goddard. Seemed logical at the time and although Stanley hasn't cemented himself in the Cat's best 22, Goddard will likely be delisted at season's end, so another inglorious trade by the Saints.

How can we not discuss it. The club in one hand still suggests that the future of our forward line is Paddy, yet we've re-signed Battle after only playing 1 game and apparently we were aggressively chasing Lynch until he told us to sod off? Doesn't sound like the club has all that much faith that Paddy will make it.

I feel for Paddy. I'm sure he's a ripping bloke and he's still an exciting player at his core, but he could already be one concussion away from retirement and I think the club is painfully aware of this.