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saynta wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 2:15pm
Really ?And while we are in the mood to knock our coaches, I am not sold on RTB as a head coach .One should never forget that he lost four premiership matches including an unloseable one against the cats.
Unloseable? That Geelong team is one of the greatest of all time? On what planet was that game UNLOSEABLE?
I remember talking to Ross the next day. I still remember his words. “ I can prepare and coach them to my upmost but I’m not the one who has to kick the ball between those two big sticks” We never lost that game because of him.
Teamwork is the thing that talks
All for one and one for all
Except when it comes to Ross and his players
Have you ever watched the 2009 GF?
What was our inside 50 dominance in the first half? Did Lyon miss the shots on goal? Did Lyon kick it into the man on the mark kicking in after a point?
Games don't finish at half time or three quarter time if you hadn't noticed genius
The game plan sucked. The team selection sucked
Leaving Ball on the bench in the last sucked...want me to go on
I can fvcken play this game all day and all night
When the season was up for grabs (before we secured top spot) until about round 18 or 19. We were undefeated. Yes undefeated, our two H/A losses (by less than a kick) were dead rubbers to us. This with a team where the bottom 6 in our best 22 would not have got a game with most other teams. A list greatly diminished compared to the 2004/2005 List.
We should have been more than 5 goals up at half time, there would've been no coming back for Geelong, no matter how long Ball played. Then one goal would have got it done in the final quarter. Schneider and McQualter had straightforward opportunities and blew them and there were other opportunities.
Lyon set up the team to give it every chance of winning two Premierships, it was in the execution the team failed.
I suppose you blame Stan Alves for 1997?
I don't blame 1 person or a few players for losses. It's a club and whole of team responsibility
Lyon didn't set up the team. He inherited the team.
Anyway...What the fvck are you talking about? Do you even know the circumstances of injuries leading up to 97 GF and with Cuzs dad dying and Bucket's sister leading into the game
2 totally different teams and 2 totally different set of circumstances for both losses.
It's interesting you mentioned Stan. I thought it was crap that he was sacked.
Anyway.... while this site still exists, just do a search of Lyon and Grand Final and enter 'Con Gorazidis' in your search as well. I can't be effed going over the same shitt that's been done to death
Yeah, a good mate of mine is a mate of Stan's, so I've heard everything about 1997. Good to see you at least don't harbor a grudge against Stan.
Lyon inherited the team? Maybe a fragment of it. He inherited a List with no ruckmen, none whatsoever. He inherited a List minus:
Aaron Hamill
Austinn Jones
Justin Peckett
Andrew Thompson
Heath Black
Brent Guerra
Xavier Clarke
Luke Penny
In addition Fraser Gehrig was in the twilight of his career and well past the peak of his powers. Rob Harvey was also in his twilight years and on reduced game time. Neither would play in 2009.
Matt Maguire was never the same player after he broke his leg in 2006 and of course Kosi was never the same player after he fractured his skull.
There's a handy dozen players and hardly any of them had been adequately replaced.
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
chook23 wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:06pm
Can not cop that you mentioned New Game Plan Tony
We were playing better start of year
1 goal after halftime
I don't have rose coloured glasses either
No, actually our first half was better than any of the first four games we won. So was most of the game last week.
That’s what surprised Lyon I think
As he said in presser…not much changed but clearly other side went up a gear and we just couldn’t go with them
That tells me we need talent
saynta wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 2:15pm
Really ?And while we are in the mood to knock our coaches, I am not sold on RTB as a head coach .One should never forget that he lost four premiership matches including an unloseable one against the cats.
Unloseable? That Geelong team is one of the greatest of all time? On what planet was that game UNLOSEABLE?
I remember talking to Ross the next day. I still remember his words. “ I can prepare and coach them to my upmost but I’m not the one who has to kick the ball between those two big sticks” We never lost that game because of him.
Teamwork is the thing that talks
All for one and one for all
Except when it comes to Ross and his players
Have you ever watched the 2009 GF?
What was our inside 50 dominance in the first half? Did Lyon miss the shots on goal? Did Lyon kick it into the man on the mark kicking in after a point?
Games don't finish at half time or three quarter time if you hadn't noticed genius
The game plan sucked. The team selection sucked
Leaving Ball on the bench in the last sucked...want me to go on
I can fvcken play this game all day and all night
When the season was up for grabs (before we secured top spot) until about round 18 or 19. We were undefeated. Yes undefeated, our two H/A losses (by less than a kick) were dead rubbers to us. This with a team where the bottom 6 in our best 22 would not have got a game with most other teams. A list greatly diminished compared to the 2004/2005 List.
We should have been more than 5 goals up at half time, there would've been no coming back for Geelong, no matter how long Ball played. Then one goal would have got it done in the final quarter. Schneider and McQualter had straightforward opportunities and blew them and there were other opportunities.
Lyon set up the team to give it every chance of winning two Premierships, it was in the execution the team failed.
I suppose you blame Stan Alves for 1997?
I don't blame 1 person or a few players for losses. It's a club and whole of team responsibility
Lyon didn't set up the team. He inherited the team.
Anyway...What the fvck are you talking about? Do you even know the circumstances of injuries leading up to 97 GF and with Cuzs dad dying and Bucket's sister leading into the game
2 totally different teams and 2 totally different set of circumstances for both losses.
It's interesting you mentioned Stan. I thought it was crap that he was sacked.
Anyway.... while this site still exists, just do a search of Lyon and Grand Final and enter 'Con Gorazidis' in your search as well. I can't be effed going over the same shitt that's been done to death
Yeah, a good mate of mine is a mate of Stan's, so I've heard everything about 1997. Good to see you at least don't harbor a grudge against Stan.
Lyon inherited the team? Maybe a fragment of it. He inherited a List with no ruckmen, none whatsoever. He inherited a List minus:
Aaron Hamill
Austinn Jones
Justin Peckett
Andrew Thompson
Heath Black
Brent Guerra
Xavier Clarke
Luke Penny
In addition Fraser Gehrig was in the twilight of his career and well past the peak of his powers. Rob Harvey was also in his twilight years and on reduced game time. Neither would play in 2009.
Matt Maguire was never the same player after he broke his leg in 2006 and of course Kosi was never the same player after he fractured his skull.
There's a handy dozen players and hardly any of them had been adequately replaced.
It’s why Ive never forgiven Thomas
Had THE best Saints list at his disposal for some time
Couldn’t get his ego out of the way to step aside and get a senior AFL coach in who could get it done
Hung on, milked the club, failed, sued us for $ then **** off to the media to snipe from the cheap seats
Absolutely gutted the joint
All that after he lead the charge to get Blight !
Feck me.
If the bitterness from some and their endless posts of hatred are going to remove RL within a 3 to 5 year period I feel for you but you are dooming yourselves to self-destruction.
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 11:25pm
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
Goddard, Dal Santo etc...
A fragment is a bit of a stretch.
Harvey was in the twighlight of his career when Lyon arrived. He had Riewoldt, Kosi, Fisher, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Ball (who was nobbled), Gram (a fringe player at that stage), Milne (who was half the player Lyon would make him) and Hudgton. Then who?
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 11:25pm
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
Goddard, Dal Santo etc...
A fragment is a bit of a stretch.
Harvey was in the twighlight of his career when Lyon arrived. He had Riewoldt, Kosi, Fisher, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Ball (who was nobbled), Gram (a fringe player at that stage), Milne (who was half the player Lyon would make him) and Hudgton. Then who?
Yup
Certainly no Gehrig Hamil Hudgton (in prime)
As 1 ex assistant coach sacked by Lyon said to me
“Grant Thomas **** your club”
Direct quote.
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 11:25pm
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
Goddard, Dal Santo etc...
A fragment is a bit of a stretch.
Harvey was in the twighlight of his career when Lyon arrived. He had Riewoldt, Kosi, Fisher, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Ball (who was nobbled), Gram (a fringe player at that stage), Milne (who was half the player Lyon would make him) and Hudgton. Then who?
Yup
Certainly no Gehrig Hamil Hudgton (in prime)
As 1 ex assistant coach sacked by Lyon said to me
“Grant Thomas **** your club”
Direct quote.
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 11:25pm
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
Goddard, Dal Santo etc...
A fragment is a bit of a stretch.
Harvey was in the twighlight of his career when Lyon arrived. He had Riewoldt, Kosi, Fisher, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Ball (who was nobbled), Gram (a fringe player at that stage), Milne (who was half the player Lyon would make him) and Hudgton. Then who?
Yup
Certainly no Gehrig Hamil Hudgton (in prime)
As 1 ex assistant coach sacked by Lyon said to me
“Grant Thomas **** your club”
Direct quote.
Yeah, yeah, heard it all before. The opinion of one very disgruntled assistant. Care to name him?
Scollop wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 11:25pm
The ones who mattered were developed by someone else. He inherited leaders in Harvey, Hayes, Riewoldt, Ball, Fisher, and Kosi was huge for us as well under Lyon. Did what he had to as a big man and played as a ruck man for probably half his on field minutes
Goddard, Dal Santo etc...
A fragment is a bit of a stretch.
Harvey was in the twighlight of his career when Lyon arrived. He had Riewoldt, Kosi, Fisher, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna, Ball (who was nobbled), Gram (a fringe player at that stage), Milne (who was half the player Lyon would make him) and Hudgton. Then who?
Yup
Certainly no Gehrig Hamil Hudgton (in prime)
As 1 ex assistant coach sacked by Lyon said to me
“Grant Thomas **** your club”
Direct quote.
Yeah, yeah, heard it all before. The opinion of one very disgruntled assistant. Care to name him?
U work it out ….you’re the bright eyed Philadelphia lawyer!!
I’ll give you a clue ….he worked very closely with Thomas..
saynta wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 2:15pm
Really ?And while we are in the mood to knock our coaches, I am not sold on RTB as a head coach .One should never forget that he lost four premiership matches including an unloseable one against the cats.
Unloseable? That Geelong team is one of the greatest of all time? On what planet was that game UNLOSEABLE?
I remember talking to Ross the next day. I still remember his words. “ I can prepare and coach them to my upmost but I’m not the one who has to kick the ball between those two big sticks” We never lost that game because of him.
Teamwork is the thing that talks
All for one and one for all
Except when it comes to Ross and his players
Have you ever watched the 2009 GF?
What was our inside 50 dominance in the first half? Did Lyon miss the shots on goal? Did Lyon kick it into the man on the mark kicking in after a point?
Games don't finish at half time or three quarter time if you hadn't noticed genius
The game plan sucked. The team selection sucked
Leaving Ball on the bench in the last sucked...want me to go on
I can fvcken play this game all day and all night
When the season was up for grabs (before we secured top spot) until about round 18 or 19. We were undefeated. Yes undefeated, our two H/A losses (by less than a kick) were dead rubbers to us. This with a team where the bottom 6 in our best 22 would not have got a game with most other teams. A list greatly diminished compared to the 2004/2005 List.
We should have been more than 5 goals up at half time, there would've been no coming back for Geelong, no matter how long Ball played. Then one goal would have got it done in the final quarter. Schneider and McQualter had straightforward opportunities and blew them and there were other opportunities.
Lyon set up the team to give it every chance of winning two Premierships, it was in the execution the team failed.
I suppose you blame Stan Alves for 1997?
I don't blame 1 person or a few players for losses. It's a club and whole of team responsibility
Lyon didn't set up the team. He inherited the team.
Anyway...What the fvck are you talking about? Do you even know the circumstances of injuries leading up to 97 GF and with Cuzs dad dying and Bucket's sister leading into the game
2 totally different teams and 2 totally different set of circumstances for both losses.
It's interesting you mentioned Stan. I thought it was crap that he was sacked.
Anyway.... while this site still exists, just do a search of Lyon and Grand Final and enter 'Con Gorazidis' in your search as well. I can't be effed going over the same shitt that's been done to death
Yeah, a good mate of mine is a mate of Stan's, so I've heard everything about 1997. Good to see you at least don't harbor a grudge against Stan.
Lyon inherited the team? Maybe a fragment of it. He inherited a List with no ruckmen, none whatsoever. He inherited a List minus:
Aaron Hamill
Austinn Jones
Justin Peckett
Andrew Thompson
Heath Black
Brent Guerra
Xavier Clarke
Luke Penny
In addition Fraser Gehrig was in the twilight of his career and well past the peak of his powers. Rob Harvey was also in his twilight years and on reduced game time. Neither would play in 2009.
Matt Maguire was never the same player after he broke his leg in 2006 and of course Kosi was never the same player after he fractured his skull.
There's a handy dozen players and hardly any of them had been adequately replaced.
It’s why Ive never forgiven Thomas
Had THE best Saints list at his disposal for some time
Couldn’t get his ego out of the way to step aside and get a senior AFL coach in who could get it done
Hung on, milked the club, failed, sued us for $ then **** off to the media to snipe from the cheap seats
Absolutely gutted the joint
All that after he lead the charge to get Blight !
Feck me.
I clearly remember GT at an interview when he took over as coach saying that if someone better came along that he would stand aside. He got the Saints into the finals unlike many "senior AFL coaches" have failed to do at every club. Injuries stuffed things up a bit, and the failure of a few key Saints players to perform against PA cost us a GF berth, where we probably would have beaten Brisbane. Maybe Lyon should stand aside after failing to win a premiership after all those goes at it- get in a senior AFL coach to get the job done?
Randomly bumping into an intoxicated and disgruntled ex-employee at a pub, who was given the arse because they couldn’t cut the mustard is an unreliable witness.
Inadmissible evidence!
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Here's some evidence. And a reminder that we witnessed this 'fade out' in the last quarter we had with Carlton...some time back
It's a repeat episode.
Picture a team that has a massive winning streak with 19 home and away victories in a row....
They are the best team with clearly the best opportunity to prepare for finals and have it's best players primed and 'fresh' for September...but splutters and runs out of gas in the last quarter of a Grand Final
Top 2 was guaranteed and secured by round 16/17. Because only Geelong were close and I think they'd lost a couple by then.
The signs weren't good and we had a few players sore and sorry at the end of the year prior to finals. We smashed Bulldogs in h&a by 6-7 goals but only just got over the line against them in the prelim to qualify for the big dance
And sure enough...no goals in the last quarter...playing too defensively ...players cooked...GF lost
Tell me if it sounds familiar to what we saw on Sunday
Just to put things into perspective, if you go back and take a look at the full replay of Sunday's game, as I've done today, you will notice that St Kilda dominated the 3rd quarter with many more entries into the forward 50 than the Blues, they just failed to convert; but if they had they could have put Carlton out of business by 3/4 time. Which would have saved a lot of froth and bubble on this forum!
As I see it, the dreadful lack of onfield leadership played a major role in Carlton steamrolling over the Saints in the last quarter, nothing to do with coaches who can only look on in despair.
This is not a failure of the coaches, it was entirely players failing to execute passes effectively and kicks on goal.
Oh for the days of Ken Sheldon dragging Craig Devonport to the fence in 1990 and uleashing an almighty spray in technicolour!
Despite assertions to the contrary, I don't carry a torch for Ross Lyon, I just happen to believe that his vast experience and success in his previous two gigs far outweigh the credentials of both Richardson and Ratten.
It is on record that the players he has coached in the past swear by his methods and if you believe supporters who regularly attend training sessions at Linton Street standards have risen considerably since Ratten's tenure.
I am also quite certain that if you were to ask Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes and Corey Enright they would be insulted if you suggested to them that they are just sycophants, dancing to Lyon's flute. He regularly gives credit to his assistants, in acknowledgment that they play a crucial role in match day tactics.
"To do good is noble. To tell others to do good is even nobler and much less trouble.."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 08 Aug 2023 5:26pm
Just to put things into perspective, if you go back and take a look at the full replay of Sunday's game, as I've done today, you will notice that St Kilda dominated the 3rd quarter with many more entries into the forward 50 than the Blues, they just failed to convert; but if they had they could have put Carlton out of business by 3/4 time. Which would have saved a lot of froth and bubble on this forum!
As I see it, the dreadful lack of onfield leadership played a major role in Carlton steamrolling over the Saints in the last quarter, nothing to do with coaches who can only look on in despair.
This is not a failure of the coaches, it was entirely players failing to execute passes effectively and kicks on goal.
Oh for the days of Ken Sheldon dragging Craig Devonport to the fence in 1990 and uleashing an almighty spray in technicolour!
Despite assertions to the contrary, I don't carry a torch for Ross Lyon, I just happen to believe that his vast experience and success in his previous two gigs far outweigh the credentials of both Richardson and Ratten.
It is on record that the players he has coached in the past swear by his methods and if you believe supporters who regularly attend training sessions at Linton Street standards have risen considerably since Ratten's tenure.
I am also quite certain that if you were to ask Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes and Corey Enright they would be insulted if you suggested to them that they are just sycophants, dancing to Lyon's flute. He regularly gives credit to his assistants, in acknowledgment that they play a crucial role in match day tactics.
Good post
King missed a sitter 25 metres out from goal just before the 3 quarter time siren
In the last quarter he kept sulking at times at the delivery. If he'd lead and run towards some of his team mates kicking the footy he'd be helping himself and his team better
Sharman, Higgins and Caminiti were getting arms chopped left right and centre and we generally got royally reamed by umpires in the 3rd quarter.
We ran out if gas. Hard to keep going when you've used up all your petrol tickets as they say. We couldn't stop the steam train once it built up momentum. Gee that Blake Acres looks like a finals capable player
SaintPav wrote: ↑Tue 08 Aug 2023 4:25pm
Randomly bumping into an intoxicated and disgruntled ex-employee at a pub, who was given the arse because they couldn’t cut the mustard is an unreliable witness.
Inadmissible evidence!
But he wasn’t disgruntled at the employer (Lyon) who sacked him????
That theories **** !
saynta wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 2:15pm
Really ?And while we are in the mood to knock our coaches, I am not sold on RTB as a head coach .One should never forget that he lost four premiership matches including an unloseable one against the cats.
Unloseable? That Geelong team is one of the greatest of all time? On what planet was that game UNLOSEABLE?
I remember talking to Ross the next day. I still remember his words. “ I can prepare and coach them to my upmost but I’m not the one who has to kick the ball between those two big sticks” We never lost that game because of him.
Teamwork is the thing that talks
All for one and one for all
Except when it comes to Ross and his players
Have you ever watched the 2009 GF?
What was our inside 50 dominance in the first half? Did Lyon miss the shots on goal? Did Lyon kick it into the man on the mark kicking in after a point?
Games don't finish at half time or three quarter time if you hadn't noticed genius
The game plan sucked. The team selection sucked
Leaving Ball on the bench in the last sucked...want me to go on
I can fvcken play this game all day and all night
When the season was up for grabs (before we secured top spot) until about round 18 or 19. We were undefeated. Yes undefeated, our two H/A losses (by less than a kick) were dead rubbers to us. This with a team where the bottom 6 in our best 22 would not have got a game with most other teams. A list greatly diminished compared to the 2004/2005 List.
We should have been more than 5 goals up at half time, there would've been no coming back for Geelong, no matter how long Ball played. Then one goal would have got it done in the final quarter. Schneider and McQualter had straightforward opportunities and blew them and there were other opportunities.
Lyon set up the team to give it every chance of winning two Premierships, it was in the execution the team failed.
I suppose you blame Stan Alves for 1997?
I don't blame 1 person or a few players for losses. It's a club and whole of team responsibility
Lyon didn't set up the team. He inherited the team.
Anyway...What the fvck are you talking about? Do you even know the circumstances of injuries leading up to 97 GF and with Cuzs dad dying and Bucket's sister leading into the game
2 totally different teams and 2 totally different set of circumstances for both losses.
It's interesting you mentioned Stan. I thought it was crap that he was sacked.
Anyway.... while this site still exists, just do a search of Lyon and Grand Final and enter 'Con Gorazidis' in your search as well. I can't be effed going over the same shitt that's been done to death
Yeah, a good mate of mine is a mate of Stan's, so I've heard everything about 1997. Good to see you at least don't harbor a grudge against Stan.
Lyon inherited the team? Maybe a fragment of it. He inherited a List with no ruckmen, none whatsoever. He inherited a List minus:
Aaron Hamill
Austinn Jones
Justin Peckett
Andrew Thompson
Heath Black
Brent Guerra
Xavier Clarke
Luke Penny
In addition Fraser Gehrig was in the twilight of his career and well past the peak of his powers. Rob Harvey was also in his twilight years and on reduced game time. Neither would play in 2009.
Matt Maguire was never the same player after he broke his leg in 2006 and of course Kosi was never the same player after he fractured his skull.
There's a handy dozen players and hardly any of them had been adequately replaced.
It’s why Ive never forgiven Thomas
Had THE best Saints list at his disposal for some time
Couldn’t get his ego out of the way to step aside and get a senior AFL coach in who could get it done
Hung on, milked the club, failed, sued us for $ then **** off to the media to snipe from the cheap seats
Absolutely gutted the joint
All that after he lead the charge to get Blight !
Feck me.
I clearly remember GT at an interview when he took over as coach saying that if someone better came along that he would stand aside. He got the Saints into the finals unlike many "senior AFL coaches" have failed to do at every club. Injuries stuffed things up a bit, and the failure of a few key Saints players to perform against PA cost us a GF berth, where we probably would have beaten Brisbane. Maybe Lyon should stand aside after failing to win a premiership after all those goes at it- get in a senior AFL coach to get the job done?
Thomas - with a superb list - couldn’t even get us to a GF
I’d leave any talk of Lyons failures out alongside that..
Dis Believer wrote: ↑Mon 07 Aug 2023 7:16pm
I'm interested to know if any of the wailing bed-wetting "I hate Ross" types can share with us how many centre clearances RTB got in the final quarter?
I'll give you a hint, it was the same as our two most senior mid-fielders!!
I hate that we lost that as much as anyone, and I think we should have won it. I also think we lost at selection; we went too tall in the front half in my opinion. But the coach we have is the coach we have for the next 3.5 years. You can either support the club and get on board or give it away. The other option is to be miserable for the next 3.5 years......
If you choose option 3, please just don't try and drag everyone else into your hate party.
Oh, and please don't try and sneak into our celebration if we happen to jag a flag in the next 3.5 years!!
Teamwork is the thing that talks
Teamwork is the thing that talks
