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Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
I think its just one of the names that has leaked out as someone Saints rate and hence it gets traction by being repeated. I've always assumed what clubs do is rank every player in the draft and then cross them off as they get read off. and choose whoever is the highest left at their pick. You don't have much time to ponder your choices on draft day.
But really none of those players you listed Con can be put in the bank yet as quality players. WE need redundancy in all positions as some will fail. And this outside/inside mid thing is over rated. Lenny was also damn good around the ground including setting players up with his passing and giving good rebound. He wasn't express but with his tank he ran all day and would have covered more ground than other faster players and had the strength and poise to make good decisions. Winning the ball in dispute is still at the heart of premiership teams. It's Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell getting it done in big games. To me we only have Dunstan and Armo as genuine clearance players and then Joey is probably the next best which says a lot. Pure outside mids who struggle to win their own ball often get shut down in big games. Plus we've got Freeman and Billings who should add some dash and class. So if we can get another in the Lenny mould, I say go for it.
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
No games over the last 2 years means we have no idea if Freeman is the next Dangerfield or the next Markworth. Big roll of the dice considering that there are plenty of midfielders available in the draft most years and our recruiting team did a phenomenal job last year. Given their success rate last 2 years, I would have backed them to pickup a decent player with our 2nd rounder next year. Just hoping that Wayne hughes hasn't messed up the dynamic too much.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
I never said i didn't like what they say. I find it interesting how their positions change all the time which would obviously happen but I still say these things are so closely guarded there is no way this stuff would be leaked. I feel its luck, common sense, changing positions do they are right at least one but wrong many times and a little inside knowledge that makes them look in the know. If people want to believe then great and if people don't then great. Its only footy FFS.
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
I never said i didn't like what they say. I find it interesting how their positions change all the time which would obviously happen but I still say these things are so closely guarded there is no way this stuff would be leaked. I feel its luck, common sense, changing positions do they are right at least one but wrong many times and a little inside knowledge that makes them look in the know. If people want to believe then great and if people don't then great. Its only footy FFS.
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
So because you guessed, all other posts by supposed ITK'S are invalid and they all did what you did?
Really mate they aren't Edward Snowdon and giving out state secrets. I get PM'S from some people whom I know are connected to the club. They guess as well? Everyone is just a big fraud?
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
I never said i didn't like what they say. I find it interesting how their positions change all the time which would obviously happen but I still say these things are so closely guarded there is no way this stuff would be leaked. I feel its luck, common sense, changing positions do they are right at least one but wrong many times and a little inside knowledge that makes them look in the know. If people want to believe then great and if people don't then great. Its only footy FFS.
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
So because you guessed, all other posts by supposed ITK'S are invalid and they all did what you did?
Really mate they aren't Edward Snowdon and giving out state secrets. I get PM'S from some people whom I know are connected to the club. They guess as well? Everyone is just a big fraud?
OK
Because I guess they are invalid? Who said that. Just pointing out that I could come on here as an unknown and say those things and people would say he is obviously ITK. There are some who want to believe so much that they say the ITK said what finally happened so they must know. The problem is they have also said 300 other things that are wrong. If you have enough guesses you wqill get one right.
And if you get PM from people who actually work at the club I would hope they aren't giving out things that should be secret. If they are then that's poor form. Do you honestly think a person ITK would be on BF or here, especially BF, without the club finding out. The club would get emails if a person was getting most or all things right on BF. I stand by what I said and good luck to those who believe the ITK.
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
I never said i didn't like what they say. I find it interesting how their positions change all the time which would obviously happen but I still say these things are so closely guarded there is no way this stuff would be leaked. I feel its luck, common sense, changing positions do they are right at least one but wrong many times and a little inside knowledge that makes them look in the know. If people want to believe then great and if people don't then great. Its only footy FFS.
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
So because you guessed, all other posts by supposed ITK'S are invalid and they all did what you did?
Really mate they aren't Edward Snowdon and giving out state secrets. I get PM'S from some people whom I know are connected to the club. They guess as well? Everyone is just a big fraud?
OK
Because I guess they are invalid? Who said that. Just pointing out that I could come on here as an unknown and say those things and people would say he is obviously ITK. There are some who want to believe so much that they say the ITK said what finally happened so they must know. The problem is they have also said 300 other things that are wrong. If you have enough guesses you wqill get one right.
And if you get PM from people who actually work at the club I would hope they aren't giving out things that should be secret. If they are then that's poor form. Do you honestly think a person ITK would be on BF or here, especially BF, without the club finding out. The club would get emails if a person was getting most or all things right on BF. I stand by what I said and good luck to those who believe the ITK.
Yeah right. People in the know get on the internet to give away little snippets. I bet you they don't know too much. It's all chest beating.
ripplug66 wrote:
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
This post reminds me of something Big Mart may say for some reason
ripplug66 wrote:
By the way I certainly aren't ITK but I guessed the only players we would get this year in trades were Carlisle and Freeman. I guessed Freeman would cost a second rounder and Carlisle would cost us our pick 5. I guessed we wouldn't get any other players and I guessed all that at least 2 weeks before the trades finished. If I was an unknown and said this at the start of trading and said I know all this then people would think I was ITK but all I did was use common sense, guesswork and what I read in the media and put 2 and 2 together and nearly got 4.
This post reminds me of something Big Mart may say for some reason
Well it doesn't to me. Wasn't pointing out anything extraordinary by me at all. Pointing out the obvious. I'm happy to say ive got plenty wrong and the point of this post wasn't to say I got something right. It was just showing that anyone can say they are ITK and if you comment enough you can pull out posts to prove you are right. The problem is others could pull out so many more posts to prove you are wrong.
Looks alright. I do think we need to keep our eyes open for another key forward to have a dual prong attack with McCartin. I know Bruce just had a stellar season but I'm not convinced he will be a long term, pack-crashing power forward. I see more in that third tall role albeit a very versatile one. Plus we can't be sure McCartin will succeed they way we want him too. Kosi was pick 2 and never really came on the way we hoped. We need to have lots of options in all positions.
I would not mind if we made a play for Harry Himmelberg. GWS should be pretty stretched for points after the first round. He was BOG in the game played before the Grand Final. Looks very promising.
Looks alright. I do think we need to keep our eyes open for another key forward to have a dual prong attack with McCartin. I know Bruce just had a stellar season but I'm not convinced he will be a long term, pack-crashing power forward. I see more in that third tall role albeit a very versatile one. Plus we can't be sure McCartin will succeed they way we want him too. Kosi was pick 2 and never really came on the way we hoped. We need to have lots of options in all positions.
He isnt a key fwd. He is a 190cm midfielder. He is athletic and wants to play mid. He was a potential pick 1 pre injury.
if Oliver, Burton or Matho fall to 14 that'd be good...
I don't want Milera or Ah Chee... flashy player with a good ceiling but could also bust. in the first round you need a banker. Don't like Curnow either... not sure what he would be at AFL level?? he is a similar size to Siposs... I dont think in betweeners (unless they have an elite attribut or two, like Goddard, Stringer) are first round options...
Again, dont even consider immediate needs when selecting FRDP's... just rank players head to head and bank the commities you select. Talent, scope + attitude is all you need to consider.
Ok. I've applied some heavy duty thinking and logic to this.
I am not saying I am an expert. Far from it. But I have read the tea leaves on what the club needs and who they are likely to go for.
So, here is my take:
We are short a midfielder. But not your ordinary midfielder. We need a contested possession monster.
Someone who wins the ball at the stoppages. A midfielder, who not only likes gathering contested possessions, but is actually good at it.
Our league stats tell you this is a major weakness. We are not very good at getting the contested ball.
So if you look through the pool of available kids, there are only a small number of midfielders who fit this bill.
Parish would be good but he will be well and truly gone when it is our turn.
So we would looking at a Balic if he still there or a Mathieson or a Jade Gresham. Oliver would also be good but unfortunately he will also be taken early.
We will take the best of this kind of player available when our name is called out.
If we hadn't recruited Carlisle I think we would be looking at Keiran Collins. In fact one of the draft experts has us taking Collins but I think we are definitely looking for a midfielder rather than a defender.
Another draft expert has us taking Milera but I just don't see him as the kind of player we need.
So my tip, best available contested ball winning midfielder who is there when our pick is called.
damienc wrote:
We are short a midfielder. But not your ordinary midfielder. We need a contested possession monster.
Someone who wins the ball at the stoppages. A midfielder, who not only likes gathering contested possessions, but is actually good at it.
Our league stats tell you this is a major weakness. We are not very good at getting the contested ball.
I just looked at the clearance stats. I don't see it as a "major" weakness.
In fact the stats show our midfielders are performing well as clearance players.
re: clearances
We might have been near the bottom, but the thing is we only averaged 5 clearances less than the best team ... we averaged 35 clearances in 2015 cf the best team which averaged 40 clearances.
So we were only 5 clearances short of the best team!
And we win far less hitouts than the best hitout teams!
So our midfielders are clearing the ball as well as can be expected.
What we really need is a couple of line-breaking midfielders - with a bit of toe and evasive skills. That's what we lack.
We definitely do not lack a Mathieson type.
BigMart wrote:What we need is another good player... Not worried about type. We are stockpiling talent...
If Mathieson is rated the highest available talent at 14, then yes.
But if his forte is he can average 1 or 2 more clearances than another player - he's a monster at winning contested ball - and if that is the criteria we are rating him ahead of others by - then no.
We need to win more uncontested possessions as well - it's not only about contested possessions.
Winning uncontested possessions probably means you're quicker than your opponent and using the ball better - by finding your players in the clear.
Last edited by samoht on Sun 08 Nov 2015 4:30pm, edited 2 times in total.
if Oliver, Burton or Matho fall to 14 that'd be good...
I don't want Milera or Ah Chee... flashy player with a good ceiling but could also bust. in the first round you need a banker. Don't like Curnow either... not sure what he would be at AFL level?? he is a similar size to Siposs... I dont think in betweeners (unless they have an elite attribut or two, like Goddard, Stringer) are first round options...
Again, dont even consider immediate needs when selecting FRDP's... just rank players head to head and bank the commities you select. Talent, scope + attitude is all you need to consider.
At pick 14 it should never be the best available. it must be needs but not next years needs. 2 to 3 years down the track needs. No idea who but just get the best mid for 2 or 3 years time.
BigMart wrote:Why would you look 2-3 years ahead for a draft pick... When you hope a frdp plays for 12-15 years... And don't enter their prime for 5-6 years???
You used to defend Ross Lyon's 4 year apprenticeship Plugger? By that notion, you're worried about the make up of the Zebs 2-3 years down the track?
Armo (wrongly) hadn't even played 30 games in season 4
Because in 2 to 3 years we will be on the move back up the ladder. Why would you get the best player at 14 if its a ruckman? We don't need them unless others fail. And the chances of someone slipping through at 14 are minimal. We need to get the best mid because that is what we will need in 2 to 3 years time. We don't need a small forward or a ruckman. And another made up story about defending RL 4 year plan. Happy for you to prove I did that but I certainly didn't. Armo got 12 games in his second year when we made the finals. Anyway got no idea what that has to do with either getting the best player at 14 or the best player that suits your needs at 14. Looks more agenda driven to me.
Con Gorozidis wrote:I still dont follow the Mathieson logic. Why do people think they are 'in the know' on this? Are our recruiters really telling people who they are going to pick before the draft? I find this hard to believe.
If we go Matho, does it mean we dont rate Dunstan, Acres or Ross as clearance players?
Totally agree. Those in the know mention so many things which to me suggests they are very good at guessing. As if a club would even slightly mention who we are after and as if thos in the know really work for the club. I find it quite funny.
It has been leaked by the club for weeks. It is a ploy so they can say, "we got Matho at 14 when we were going to pick him at 5" therefore Carlisle only cost us a second rounder".
As for ITK's they have got it right more than wrong. Dont like what they say put them on ignore. Really guys FFS its only football
Yeah, I reckon especially Moorabin Ghost is probably sanctioned by the media department. Seems to know way too much and sounds as if just off the inner circle of the recruiting department. If he was inside the club and leaking it would be shut down pretty quickly. He disappeared when the Carlisle s*** hit the fan then when they needed to do a bit of management all of a sudden started taking again. The whole we would have given 5 for matho thing seems like a carefully stage managed operation. They hardly tell us anything very likely to damage our position. Most other clubs probably rate Matho at around 12 to 20.
What evidence is there that Milera is 'flashy'? Or is just that all indigenous players are supposedly 'flashy'? There is no way that Parish or Matho could kick 5 goals in a senior SANFL game
I have no problem getting Matho if we want an another clearance player as we are very weak in clearances.
But a midfield of Matho, Armo, Dunstan, Ross, Acres looks treacle slow. Steven cant do it all by himself and at this stage Freeman hasnt yet played a single game.
