Watters' position is now untenable

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ctqs
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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404632Post ctqs »

Austinnn wrote:
ctqs wrote:They already know about it, mate. And a bit more, too. The leaking is disgraceful as are the supposed reasons for it.
ctqs wrote:It will get out before too long, sadly, because it's obviously doing the rounds and people can't help but spread news, which I find interesting given it seems to be ok to send an email around to people yet if it's published in a newspaper or online, it's shot down as garbage.
So do you/the club know where the leaks are coming from? Are steps being taken to plug the leak? I assume someone is trying to get someone fired, that old story. People playing politics with our club, with us as supporters. It's not cool.

Perhaps once trade period is over the full story will come out, the journos have to save something for the lean months.

Well St Kilda will survive as long as we want it to, and hopefully in the coming years we'll thrive.
There's been a fair bit of background briefing going on with an agenda to push. I heard similar to Caro (and Jaxon) yesterday only with more detail, which makes me think she must have more she didn't go to print with as well. If I know where it's coming from, the club must. Certainly some at the club know. I doubt the full version going around will ever be official, not in detail anyway. It very rarely is.
Still, I love the fact the president is prepared to take the bull by the horns and do what needs to be done to sort this out. Enough of the tail wagging the dog. And I hope those who are leaking cop their right whack because they're damaging the club for the sake of their agenda. Selfish, undisciplined, and lacking in character.


Still waiting for closure ... if you get my drift.
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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404643Post Dr Spaceman »

Okay, so what's the end game for the Fines of this world?

The club has done a review under the auspices of the respected Andrew Thompson. Problems were identified. Chris Pelchen is to be retained. Scott Watters is to be retained. A potential contract extension for Watters will not be offered at this point in time. Changes will be made.

So surely that resolves things. Surely that addresses the concerns that people have regarding the clubs operations and its future. Surely?

If certain fans and/or media are still hyperventilating then I can only ask why.

What is the point of further disunity at this point in time?


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404648Post saintbrat »

Dr Spaceman wrote:Okay, so what's the end game for the Fines of this world?

The club has done a review under the auspices of the respected Andrew Thompson. Problems were identified. Chris Pelchen is to be retained. Scott Watters is to be retained. A potential contract extension for Watters will not be offered at this point in time. Changes will be made.

So surely that resolves things. Surely that addresses the concerns that people have regarding the clubs operations and its future. Surely?

If certain fans and/or media are still hyperventilating then I can only ask why.

What is the point of further disunity at this point in time?

listening tonight the fine of the world who elected himself to ' create a minor storm'
has suggested it will all pan out and the saints will survive... ( the tone of your initial rant led to some of the angst-- same as the tone of headlines ..

oh and Davoren whohe apparently dismissed mid year- was working under hampered conditons--- maybe wasn't as bad as he Fine had suggested- make up your mind.....


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404652Post loris »

The OtherThommo wrote:
Narrow interests, differently vested than the greater good, are a pox on their House, and they ain't the only ones.
Peste! :shock: :wink:


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404675Post cwrcyn »

It's all about re-defined roles, a strategic plan, and better communication. It's not like this hasn't been done before at our club and others. We'll get through it, clear the air, and move on. Like anything in football, it becomes ancient history pretty quickly. Watters needs to come on board under the new parameters, but so do the senior players.

This stuff goes on at football clubs all the time. Carlton last year, Collingwood this year, Brisbane this year, Richmond about 4 years ago, Geelong in 2006, Port Adelaide two years ago, Melbourne this year, last year, the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that.

We're not on our own. And from here, we just get on with it. Once all the new players enter the club, the focus will be there.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404680Post st.byron »

cwrcyn wrote:It's all about re-defined roles, a strategic plan, and better communication. It's not like this hasn't been done before at our club and others. We'll get through it, clear the air, and move on. Like anything in football, it becomes ancient history pretty quickly. Watters needs to come on board under the new parameters, but so do the senior players.

This stuff goes on at football clubs all the time. Carlton last year, Collingwood this year, Brisbane this year, Richmond about 4 years ago, Geelong in 2006, Port Adelaide two years ago, Melbourne this year, last year, the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that.

We're not on our own. And from here, we just get on with it. Once all the new players enter the club, the focus will be there.

Good post.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404714Post plugger66 »

Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404725Post tony74 »

plugger66 wrote:Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.
For once we agree fully


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404727Post jonesy »

saintbrat wrote: oh and Davoren whohe apparently dismissed mid year- was working under hampered conditons--- maybe wasn't as bad as he Fine had suggested- make up your mind.....
We wouldn't allow him to use peptides? No wonder he jumped ship to the filth..


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404759Post Wayne42 »

thejiggingsaint wrote:I know! Lets try something right out of left field, and I know it may just be a bit hard for some to buy into, but I'll suggest it anyway; LETS JUST SUPPORT THE CLUB! and to hell with the gossip mongers and their acolytes!
Left Field stuff is so boring, it's trade week, it moves slower than growing grass, people need amusement and it's being manufactured in droves, when all the
bulldust settles we'll be able to see what was crud and what was fact.


The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404780Post jaxons »

plugger66 wrote:Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.
Plugger I wish I was wrong.
I wish none of this was true.
I wish we had a playing group full of respect for our senior coach.
I also wish I could tell you how I know things.
Believe what you want.
Makes no difference in the scheme of things anyway really.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404791Post SaintPav »

So I take it that everyone on this site loves their boss, loves senior management and gets on with everyone at work. Life must be so peachy..

Regardless, you still turn up to work, you still do the best you can and the sun still comes up...life goes on..


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404799Post saintbrat »

SaintPav wrote:So I take it that everyone on this site loves their boss, loves senior management and gets on with everyone at work. Life must be so peachy..

Regardless, you still turn up to work, you still do the best you can and the sun still comes up...life goes on..
that's what I was thinking

rarely see my Boss....... would know If I did either saomeone had passed away or i had done something very very wrong-- or maybe very very right..

do see section manager occasionally and direct leader almost daily.

and also have twice yearly reviews- but they would not result in dismissal- if a problem possibly a suggestion, or new goals to be reached-.. But I'm guessing if you get enough points to be worked on - then non renewal fo position would be possible.

But Hey- today is payday- I'll go back ....


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404804Post Greg T »

jaxons wrote:What I will do in future is not share information with our loyal supporters who can't handle the truth.
The truth being that the club made a mistake 2 years ago, and it needs to be rectified before further damage is done.
It is no shame making a mistake when you are having a go.
The shame is acknowledging it is a mistake and doing nothing about it.
You guys don't even know the half of it.
Keep up the good work Jaxons....got my vote


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404817Post Con Gorozidis »

Jaxons tell us the other half then ?
Sorry but if joey got a dwarf to make fun of the coach its not a poor reflection on the coach but a poor reflection on joey.
Is he five years old ?
Also given they have dwarves on the Footy Show every single week makes me think that the notion they came up with the idea all by themselves because they dont like the coach doesnt add up.
Its an unoriginal idea that they ripped off the footy show.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404833Post The OtherThommo »

Ah, the human condition. As science rolls on, despite attempts by various ideological bastions to regress us all back beyond the Enlightenment, more and more human behaviour is understood as inherent, pre-programmed, if you like. No field in science has galloped ahead in understanding in the recent decade like genetics. The research was even given a name - "The Human Genome Project". The understanding of the role and influence of DNA is dragging all sorts of facets of the human condition under the umbrella of DNA determination.

The science has moved well beyond attributing physical characteristics or predetermination of disease and illness risk to a person's DNA. It is now well into the realm of psychology and behaviour.

I read the following piece in last Satdee's Age. I recalled reading it after some of the discussion in this thread, so I went back and reread it last night. It's not a long article - it doesn't need to be. A taste;

"Subjects who had a specific form of a gene in which certain amino acids are missing, found in about half of Caucasians, had a heightened awareness of negative stimuli. For instance, these people might look down a busy city street and catch the shady character hanging out by the ATM rather than the jubilant children playing in the park. Or during a hike, they would focus on the slippery rocks instead of the scenery."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/the-gene-sc ... z2hutyAZ00

So, different people see the same complex scenario and come to different conclusions, even if they have exactly the same vantage point. In the case of our particular "disarray" under discussion atm, we have a whole lot of people reaching different conclusions WITHOUT having the same vantage points. Economists use the term "Multiplier Effect" in a number of downstream impact assessments of upstream inputs. It wouldn't be a stretch to apply the same term in scenarios like this, whereby the different vantage points of (e.g.) Jaxons and Tony, multiplied by possible DNA differences, lead them to diverging opinions (conclusions) about the reality and importance of what they have seen (even by the spoken relaying of other individuals' processing of their observations or received information, via their own DNA driven psychology).

The multiplication is furthered, compounded, when someone with a higher access to disseminate (e.g. Caro) emails someone like the fella at Bigfooty, asks him to tell her what he "knows", and then gives that individual's information processing, from his vantage point, via his genetic make up, greater credence. I could then go on to how someone like the fella at Bigfooty is then incentivised by Caro's acknowledgement, and how his DNA embedded response to Caro's "reward" might well be to accentuate his need to reach even bigger conclusions off even less substantial information, so as to receive further validation (reward) from a Caro.

I recall Richard Dawkins talking to the scientist who mapped his DNA (Dawkins was the 8th person on the planet to be fully mapped). The scientist asked if Dawkins smoked. Dawkins said no and asked if his map showed a genetic propensity to develop cancer. The scientist replied no, but that it did show a genetic propensity to WANT to smoke.

All that's just a further explanation as to why I'm happy to, and need to, rely on the board of the footy club to get hold of the maximum amount of information, from the broadest range of inputs and perspectives, decide what to do and do it.

It's also why I avoid placing much store in snippets or individual perspectives. Simply put, the science says such a process is unreliable.

And, I like science 'cos it explains so much.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404837Post SemperFidelis »

This bit of the Hun article fills me with at least some confidence that those now in charge have some idea of what they are doing re the issue of the coach's tenure ...

"But Summers said talks about a contract extension for Watters might not take place until well into next season.

“I absolutely hope that Scott Watters is coach of this football club for a long, long time,” Summers said yesterday.

“But we all get there by performance. And I don’t think Scott would expect anything other than to say if he is given the opportunity he believes in himself to achieve the goals that we have set him.

“And they are not going be based on a win-loss record - that’s not the game here. Obviously what happens on the field is relevant, in terms of game plans and being competitive ... but it is not going to driven by that.”

Asked if the win-loss mattered if the club was 0-8 next season, Summers said: “Not with the board it’s not. Hawthorn has been through it, Geelong has been through it. The good clubs know what they want to do.”


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404838Post plugger66 »

jaxons wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.
Plugger I wish I was wrong.
I wish none of this was true.
I wish we had a playing group full of respect for our senior coach.
I also wish I could tell you how I know things.
Believe what you want.
Makes no difference in the scheme of things anyway really.

As i said you obviously have contacts to get the Ben deal through but your contact who maybe a player differs from my contact. he said it had nothing to do with making fun of the coach. The organisor was joey I gather and this person knows Joey very well. We are in a bit of a pickle here because Tony 74 agrees with me and your record seems pretty good. My record is s*** but I trust the person I rang last night. As you say it doesnt matter if people believe you, me or Frank.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404841Post Devilhead »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Jaxons tell us the other half then ?
And why would he do that Con?

He obviously is pushing an agenda and has happily planted his seed and is now sitting back waiting for other people to water it.

Problem for him and his like is that according to the latest reports whatever the problems were have been resolved and club has moved forward.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404857Post maverick »

jaxons wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.
Plugger I wish I was wrong.
I wish none of this was true.
I wish we had a playing group full of respect for our senior coach.
I also wish I could tell you how I know things.
Believe what you want.
Makes no difference in the scheme of things anyway really.
Jaxon, I hope you are wrong, but I am fearful you aren't.
There just seems to be too many people in the know for there not to be something there.

If I was managing the club I would respond as I do with my kids, punish both, the dobber and the offender.

If SW deserves the sack because his coaching is sub par, or has made some terminal mistakes, then so be it, irrespective of his payout, do it.
If this happens then the players leaking information and showing public disrespect for authority need punishing as well, if severe enough, trade them. They must be shown and told in front of the whole group, this is not the way to act.

If not true for SW, then publicly (within the playing group) haul the dissenters over the coals, and fine or sack the so called players who think its OK to make fun of the club publicly.

Take control of the club, the players need to be aware of their role publicly and understand how, well paid young men should behave. It also says a lot about the management of the player operation role that the players have developed this way.

All of this dissent reflects badly on our leaders IMO, Roo and Hayes in particular.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404858Post maverick »

plugger66 wrote:
jaxons wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Jaxons was 100% right with what he said about Ben. he is 100% wrong with why the guys got dwards on the door. Took one simple phone call to see that. Sorry I will change it to 99% because the person may not know the exact reason but I doubt it.
Plugger I wish I was wrong.
I wish none of this was true.
I wish we had a playing group full of respect for our senior coach.
I also wish I could tell you how I know things.
Believe what you want.
Makes no difference in the scheme of things anyway really.

As i said you obviously have contacts to get the Ben deal through but your contact who maybe a player differs from my contact. he said it had nothing to do with making fun of the coach. The organisor was joey I gather and this person knows Joey very well. We are in a bit of a pickle here because Tony 74 agrees with me and your record seems pretty good. My record is s*** but I trust the person I rang last night. As you say it doesnt matter if people believe you, me or Frank.
Maybe Joey didn't have that intention at the time, but others hijacked the idea and took the opportunity, maybe you are both right....


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404873Post stinger »

saintbrat wrote:
SaintPav wrote:So I take it that everyone on this site loves their boss, loves senior management and gets on with everyone at work. Life must be so peachy..

Regardless, you still turn up to work, you still do the best you can and the sun still comes up...life goes on..
that's what I was thinking

rarely see my Boss....... would know If I did either saomeone had passed away or i had done something very very wrong-- or maybe very very right..

do see section manager occasionally and direct leader almost daily.

and also have twice yearly reviews- but they would not result in dismissal- if a problem possibly a suggestion, or new goals to be reached-.. But I'm guessing if you get enough points to be worked on - then non renewal fo position would be possible.

But Hey- today is payday- I'll go back ....
a post that made m smile.....not many of those these days.... :D


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404874Post stinger »

jonesy wrote:
saintbrat wrote: oh and Davoren whohe apparently dismissed mid year- was working under hampered conditons--- maybe wasn't as bad as he Fine had suggested- make up your mind.....
We wouldn't allow him to use peptides? No wonder he jumped ship to the filth..

a little bird told me it was all a question of money.... :wink:


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404880Post Cairnsman »

SemperFidelis wrote:This bit of the Hun article fills me with at least some confidence that those now in charge have some idea of what they are doing re the issue of the coach's tenure ...

"But Summers said talks about a contract extension for Watters might not take place until well into next season.

“I absolutely hope that Scott Watters is coach of this football club for a long, long time,” Summers said yesterday.

“But we all get there by performance. And I don’t think Scott would expect anything other than to say if he is given the opportunity he believes in himself to achieve the goals that we have set him.

“And they are not going be based on a win-loss record - that’s not the game here. Obviously what happens on the field is relevant, in terms of game plans and being competitive ... but it is not going to driven by that.”

Asked if the win-loss mattered if the club was 0-8 next season, Summers said: “Not with the board it’s not. Hawthorn has been through it, Geelong has been through it. The good clubs know what they want to do.”
This post by SemperFidelis is worth bumping...one of the most positive and encouraging things to be stated by our new Chairman in his short reign thus far.


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Re: Watters' position is now untenable

Post: # 1404882Post stinger »

maverick wrote:
If I was managing the club I would respond as I do with my kids, punish both, the dobber and the offender.



that was also the go at my college...if you went dobbing to the brothers, you would be told to tell the person dobbed in that brother so ans so wanted to see both of you...then you would both get the cuts when you fronted up........do dobbing wasn't really a problem.........i am in favour of that happening here.......


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

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