Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
plugger66 wrote:Couldn't be bothered reading past page one so sorry if repeating things. Firstly Im not sure Jaxons can claim this one. Was on SEN right at that time though I believe he has some knowledge of trades going from Ben last year.
Anyway 21 is overs for Stanley however that doesn't make the trade a good one. Pick 21 is a very maybe pick. We have spent 6 years getting this guy better and he is slowly improving so that has to be thought of. Secondly we lose our only second ruckman. That is a huge loss. Losing him as a forward isn't a great loss. Its touch and go. They will obviously trade him but I think it isn't a great move. If anyone has any ideas who can help in the ruck I would be very interested.
Jaxon's is the man (or woman) Plugger, you have to admit, the way he/she comes in with no bull*** just says things as he/she hears it...I love it. It's like the forums own personal deepthroat ) the intrigue his/her statements carry, it makes it feel like we (saintsatiuonalists) are part of a covert operation
I knew you'd be down about Stanley and your lack of faith in any of our other Rucks pushing forward - well, if the Stanley trade happens, next year and the year after will really put your theory to the litmus test. Lets hope your wrong for the sake of the team developing better balance and being more competitive!!
Jaxons is my hero. And I hope I am wrong about the other ruckmen but if im not god knows what happens to our ruckmen during the game.
i would say the same thing that would happen with stanley still in the team ... lets be honest we wont win anymore hitouts to advantage with Rhys then we will without him - our boys will still get dominated by the bigger more experianced rucks with or without Rhys and our mids will still kick it to Roo with two players defending him with or without rhys ... so basically nothing changes really
Its nothing to do with how many hitouts he wins. Stanley can play forward for extended periods even if he isn't a star. He then gives relief in the ruck. I cant possibly see how our forward line works if 2 ruckmen play. Stanley wasn't fast and was a great make but compared to Longer and Hickey he looked like Carey especially in the marking department.
plugger66 wrote:Couldn't be bothered reading past page one so sorry if repeating things. Firstly Im not sure Jaxons can claim this one. Was on SEN right at that time though I believe he has some knowledge of trades going from Ben last year.
Anyway 21 is overs for Stanley however that doesn't make the trade a good one. Pick 21 is a very maybe pick. We have spent 6 years getting this guy better and he is slowly improving so that has to be thought of. Secondly we lose our only second ruckman. That is a huge loss. Losing him as a forward isn't a great loss. Its touch and go. They will obviously trade him but I think it isn't a great move. If anyone has any ideas who can help in the ruck I would be very interested.
plugger so let me get this right ...
losing him as a forward is no great loss (i totally agree)
but losing him as a ruck is a huge loss ?
so you rate his ruck work higher than Longer and a fit Hickey ?
honestly i would rate Stanley as a very average ruckman/potentially servicable forward would rather run with Hick and Longer as 1 & 2 ruckmen .. we have Pierce who hopefully is going to be pushing for a call up at some stage in the next year and a half and honestly while we rebuild its been shown we are not afraid to give the kids big jobs to learn off them - 6 years we have been developing Stanley and yeah he is now just starting to show something but its not exactly a ground shaking breakout as yet
lastly you say pick 21 is a veru maybe pick ... you could say every pick (pick 1 included) is a maybe pick but we have stated we are going to build through the draft so in order to do that we gotta that the risk on pick and picks closer to the start are going to give us a better chance of finding a real quallity player
Can you tell me the forward set up with Stanley now gone? Of course every pick is a maybe pick but 21 s a third into the draft. Its a one in 3 pick that the player will play 100 games. That makes it a real maybe pick.
ill give it a crack ...
Eli- Lee/White - Hickey
Bruce - Roo - Billings
either way we lose most weeks with or without Stanley
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
Zed wrote:If we end up with pick 4 as part of the pick 1 deal , we could very well be in the frame to pick up 2 meter Peter Wright - perhaps an almost ready made ruck/forward replacement for Rhys.
So that scenario would make it
Wright, Pick 7, Pick 21
V
Petracca, Stanley
I still think we will get 4, 7 & 19 for pick 1 , so that would potentially make it:
Wright , #7, #19, #21 versus Petracca & Stanley..
If pick 14 is on the table for Stanley however, that certainly seems like massive overs in our favour
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Then thing is with Rhys, out of him, Longer and Hickey, Rhys is the only one who can actually play forward and kick goals regularly.
I personally would not like to lose him, unless we can get a definite replacement.
plugger66 wrote:Couldn't be bothered reading past page one so sorry if repeating things. Firstly Im not sure Jaxons can claim this one. Was on SEN right at that time though I believe he has some knowledge of trades going from Ben last year.
Anyway 21 is overs for Stanley however that doesn't make the trade a good one. Pick 21 is a very maybe pick. We have spent 6 years getting this guy better and he is slowly improving so that has to be thought of. Secondly we lose our only second ruckman. That is a huge loss. Losing him as a forward isn't a great loss. Its touch and go. They will obviously trade him but I think it isn't a great move. If anyone has any ideas who can help in the ruck I would be very interested.
plugger so let me get this right ...
losing him as a forward is no great loss (i totally agree)
but losing him as a ruck is a huge loss ?
so you rate his ruck work higher than Longer and a fit Hickey ?
honestly i would rate Stanley as a very average ruckman/potentially servicable forward would rather run with Hick and Longer as 1 & 2 ruckmen .. we have Pierce who hopefully is going to be pushing for a call up at some stage in the next year and a half and honestly while we rebuild its been shown we are not afraid to give the kids big jobs to learn off them - 6 years we have been developing Stanley and yeah he is now just starting to show something but its not exactly a ground shaking breakout as yet
lastly you say pick 21 is a veru maybe pick ... you could say every pick (pick 1 included) is a maybe pick but we have stated we are going to build through the draft so in order to do that we gotta that the risk on pick and picks closer to the start are going to give us a better chance of finding a real quallity player
Can you tell me the forward set up with Stanley now gone? Of course every pick is a maybe pick but 21 s a third into the draft. Its a one in 3 pick that the player will play 100 games. That makes it a real maybe pick.
ill give it a crack ...
Eli- Lee/White - Hickey
Bruce - Roo - Billings
either way we lose most weeks with or without Stanley
Well based on that comment lets trade every single player over 26 years of age or retire them and hope to fluke a player in the draft. At least we will know we will lose every week with that forward line.
bigred wrote:I'd back a fit Hickey & Longa in any day.
Remains to be seen if either can rest forward and be dangerous.
Same can be said for Stanley.
exactly Stanley was for most games dead wood in the forward line and an average at best ruck ...
with Longer we have an average ruck who is dead wood in the forward line
with Hickey we have an average ruck wo is dead wood in the forward line ...
big differance is Longer and Hickey are improving in their ruck work Rhys is just same old same old (with the exception of glimpse in 3 games)
so in the end we lose not lot as we still have two average rucks and a dead wood in the forward line but we pick up a draft pick
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
bigred wrote:I'd back a fit Hickey & Longa in any day.
Remains to be seen if either can rest forward and be dangerous.
Same can be said for Stanley.
exactly Stanley was for most games dead wood in the forward line and an average at best ruck ...
with Longer we have an average ruck who is dead wood in the forward line
with Hickey we have an average ruck wo is dead wood in the forward line ...
big differance is Longer and Hickey are improving in their ruck work Rhys is just same old same old (with the exception of glimpse in 3 games)
so in the end we lose not lot as we still have two average rucks and a dead wood in the forward line but we pick up a draft pick
Except Stanley moves around in the forward line. Neither of those other 2 can do that. If you think they kick it a lot to Roo now wait until one of those 2play forward. I would think that neither will play as a forward because I think they will only play one ruck and try and work out another way of resting the one ruckman.
Don't like this trade. Stanley seems to be the only one that can play ruck/fwd - very mobile and takes marks, lots of them, many contested.
They spend years developing him, only for someone else to benefit. He's only about 23, what sort of message does that send to the playing group?
DP 21 and the Saints have to give the sweetener I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it?
Geelong have had success with another 200cm athletic type in Blicavs
Last edited by MCG-Unit on Tue 14 Oct 2014 5:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well based on that comment lets trade every single player over 26 years of age or retire them and hope to fluke a player in the draft. At least we will know we will lose every week with that forward line.
now you are just being silly no one is saying to slice the list up for nothing picks but as you yourself admitted pick 21 is paying overs for Rhys so if we get the offer that is overs we would be mad not to look at it - especially when we are talking about overs for a player who is more cold then hot .. we are not talking about ripping the heart out of the club by trading Roo or Joey we a talking about a guy who honestly at times isnt even in our best 22
look you could put buddy into our forward line and we would lose every week as we have a very young list that is still learning how to gel together as a team thats the given at this stage of the rebuild but just like you cant bake a cake without breaking some eggs you cant rebuild through the draft without giving up some value for a speculative pick
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
bigred wrote:I'd back a fit Hickey & Longa in any day.
Remains to be seen if either can rest forward and be dangerous.
Same can be said for Stanley.
exactly Stanley was for most games dead wood in the forward line and an average at best ruck ...
with Longer we have an average ruck who is dead wood in the forward line
with Hickey we have an average ruck wo is dead wood in the forward line ...
big differance is Longer and Hickey are improving in their ruck work Rhys is just same old same old (with the exception of glimpse in 3 games)
so in the end we lose not lot as we still have two average rucks and a dead wood in the forward line but we pick up a draft pick
Except Stanley moves around in the forward line. Neither of those other 2 can do that. If you think they kick it a lot to Roo now wait until one of those 2play forward. I would think that neither will play as a forward because I think they will only play one ruck and try and work out another way of resting the one ruckman.
so we keep a player cause he moves around in the forward line ... wow... and how does Stanley moving around the forward line improve our chances of compeating in finals in 2018 ? short term pain for long term gain
Stanley isnt the differance between us wining or losing .. heck hes not the differance between a 5 goal loss and a 10 goal loss .. pick 21 could be by the time 2018 comes around
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
Well based on that comment lets trade every single player over 26 years of age or retire them and hope to fluke a player in the draft. At least we will know we will lose every week with that forward line.
now you are just being silly no one is saying to slice the list up for nothing picks but as you yourself admitted pick 21 is paying overs for Rhys so if we get the offer that is overs we would be mad not to look at it - especially when we are talking about overs for a player who is more cold then hot .. we are not talking about ripping the heart out of the club by trading Roo or Joey we a talking about a guy who honestly at times isnt even in our best 22
look you could put buddy into our forward line and we would lose every week as we have a very young list that is still learning how to gel together as a team thats the given at this stage of the rebuild but just like you cant bake a cake without breaking some eggs you cant rebuild through the draft without giving up some value for a speculative pick
It is overs for sure but im unexcited about pick 21. Probably one in 3 around that pick play more than 100 games. And I know it doesn't matter who plays in the forward line because they will struggle but I don't want to lose every game single game next season and this wont help. I worry about sponsors and members and more importantly attracting players to a side that could very well lose every game. We will just keep getting players from other clubs who cant get a game for them. I reckon AR would also be worried. It will take a very strong club to keep a coach that will have coached for 2 years for probably 2 wooden spoons.
MCG-Unit wrote:Don't like this trade. Stanley seems to be the only one that can play ruck/fwd - very mobile and takes marks, lots of them, many contested.
They spend years developing him, only for someone else to benefit. He's only about 23, what sort of message does that send to the playing group?
DP 21 and the Saints have to give the sweetener I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it?
Geelong have had success with another 200cm athletic type in Blicavs
well thats just dilusional ... pick 21 for stanley is overs Caddy or Murdoch would demand a first round pick on their own
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
bigred wrote:I'd back a fit Hickey & Longa in any day.
Remains to be seen if either can rest forward and be dangerous.
Same can be said for Stanley.
exactly Stanley was for most games dead wood in the forward line and an average at best ruck ...
with Longer we have an average ruck who is dead wood in the forward line
with Hickey we have an average ruck wo is dead wood in the forward line ...
big differance is Longer and Hickey are improving in their ruck work Rhys is just same old same old (with the exception of glimpse in 3 games)
so in the end we lose not lot as we still have two average rucks and a dead wood in the forward line but we pick up a draft pick
How are you dead wood when you are in the top 10 contested marks in the comp, playing in the side that has the lowest amount of forward 50 entries?
As far as "same old same old" goes, he just clicked over 50 career games, a quarter of which he played at full back... He's probably contested a similar amount of ruck contests as Longer & Hickey have.
Rhys is no superstar, but he is currently the only guy we have who can play ruck/forward, which suggests we are looking at Wright if we trade him.
Well based on that comment lets trade every single player over 26 years of age or retire them and hope to fluke a player in the draft. At least we will know we will lose every week with that forward line.
now you are just being silly no one is saying to slice the list up for nothing picks but as you yourself admitted pick 21 is paying overs for Rhys so if we get the offer that is overs we would be mad not to look at it - especially when we are talking about overs for a player who is more cold then hot .. we are not talking about ripping the heart out of the club by trading Roo or Joey we a talking about a guy who honestly at times isnt even in our best 22
look you could put buddy into our forward line and we would lose every week as we have a very young list that is still learning how to gel together as a team thats the given at this stage of the rebuild but just like you cant bake a cake without breaking some eggs you cant rebuild through the draft without giving up some value for a speculative pick
It is overs for sure but im unexcited about pick 21. Probably one in 3 around that pick play more than 100 games. And I know it doesn't matter who plays in the forward line because they will struggle but I don't want to lose every game single game next season and this wont help. I worry about sponsors and members and more importantly attracting players to a side that could very well lose every game. We will just keep getting players from other clubs who cant get a game for them. I reckon AR would also be worried. It will take a very strong club to keep a coach that will have coached for 2 years for probably 2 wooden spoons.
as i said before we have no members as it is so Stanley isnt going to be the catalyst for growing members neither is he going to be the reason sponsors stick around .. Pick 21 may .. or it may not
i too dont want to lose every week but lets be honest its more than likely going to happen - we could prevent that by trading the kids and our picks and picking up established players that might help us win mayber 4or 5 games but in the end does that bring us closer to a flag ? the club have been really open obout where we are at and what we are trying to do the club is telling the members its not going to be a quick rise back up and we are going to be in for pain and they are selling this on the premiss that the future is going to be brighter off the back of this preiod ...
as i said its not trading for the sake of trading but when we get an offer that is clearly overs thats banking another pick that could take us closer to reaching our goal
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
MCG-Unit wrote:Don't like this trade. Stanley seems to be the only one that can play ruck/fwd - very mobile and takes marks, lots of them, many contested.
They spend years developing him, only for someone else to benefit. He's only about 23, what sort of message does that send to the playing group?
DP 21 and the Saints have to give the sweetener I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it?
Geelong have had success with another 200cm athletic type in Blicavs
well thats just dilusional ... pick 21 for stanley is overs Caddy or Murdoch would demand a first round pick on their own
It might be 'delusional' wanting more, and DP 21 may be overs to some - but as there are reportedly 'several clubs' enquiring about Stanley -
I would drive a very hard bargain if clubs are chasing - because I don't want to trade him. Is that ok? Unless it was the Saints putting his name up for trade.....
I'm not delusional about his contested marking, in a side with poor delivery.
Last edited by MCG-Unit on Tue 14 Oct 2014 5:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
I still reckon Rhys is one of the most important players in the squad. He has unique abilities in his combination of speed, marking and kicking long. And he does alright as a pinch hitter in the ruck.
I'd be disappointed if he left without a replacement being ready, whatever we got for him.
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
bigred wrote:I'd back a fit Hickey & Longa in any day.
Remains to be seen if either can rest forward and be dangerous.
Same can be said for Stanley.
exactly Stanley was for most games dead wood in the forward line and an average at best ruck ...
with Longer we have an average ruck who is dead wood in the forward line
with Hickey we have an average ruck wo is dead wood in the forward line ...
big differance is Longer and Hickey are improving in their ruck work Rhys is just same old same old (with the exception of glimpse in 3 games)
so in the end we lose not lot as we still have two average rucks and a dead wood in the forward line but we pick up a draft pick
How are you dead wood when you are in the top 10 contested marks in the comp, playing in the side that has the lowest amount of forward 50 entries?
As far as "same old same old" goes, he just clicked over 50 career games, a quarter of which he played at full back... He's probably contested a similar amount of ruck contests as Longer & Hickey have.
Rhys is no superstar, but he is currently the only guy we have who can play ruck/forward, which suggests we are looking at Wright if we trade him.
im not saying he is a spud.. he has value in fact he is one of the only ones we are willing to part with who does have value we cant give nothing to pick up something it doesnt work that way ..
as for picking a player to replace him maybe we do maybe we dont .. we are looking at this rebuild in the big picture its not something we can get done in one draft or even two its going to take a few to get what we need and we will later down the track use other avenues besides the draft to finish off the rebuild .. so the task at hand is to get the best kids available to us if that means we run one tall forward short but bring in two gun midfielders this year so be it .. its all about the end game not how we go next season
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
Based on delivered form to date...Longer and Hickey are not a good combination in the one team.
Longer is young, but struggles to mark and does little around the ground.
I am ok with Hickey resting forward...but not Longer playing the majority of the game as a forward.
Bruce was a" Ray of Sunshine" playing as a big forward in the latter part of the season. He may be best when there are two other big targets. Looks like Bruce will have to become the Key Forward along with Roo, with White and Membrey sharing the flanker roles.
2015
HF: White Bruce Membrey
FF: Billings Roo "Resting/Rotating Mid"
OR
HF: White Bruce "Resting/Rotating Mid" ie Petracca
FF: Billings Roo Membrey
Last edited by saintsRrising on Tue 14 Oct 2014 5:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
MCG-Unit wrote:Don't like this trade. Stanley seems to be the only one that can play ruck/fwd - very mobile and takes marks, lots of them, many contested.
They spend years developing him, only for someone else to benefit. He's only about 23, what sort of message does that send to the playing group?
DP 21 and the Saints have to give the sweetener I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it?
Geelong have had success with another 200cm athletic type in Blicavs
well thats just dilusional ... pick 21 for stanley is overs Caddy or Murdoch would demand a first round pick on their own
It might be 'delusional', and DP 21 may be overs - but as there are reportedly 'several clubs' enquiring about Stanley - I would drive a very hard bargain if clubs are chasing - because I don't want to trade him. Is that ok? Unless it was the Saints putting his name up for trade.....
of course we would be looking for the best offer - we are not stupid but other factors for instance Rhys wishes of where he wants to go come into it .. Freo may offer more but if Rhys doesnt want to go there we cant force him i think pick 21 is putting it out there that that is the asking price for him so if you want him you gotta beat that
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
MCG-Unit wrote:Don't like this trade. Stanley seems to be the only one that can play ruck/fwd - very mobile and takes marks, lots of them, many contested.
They spend years developing him, only for someone else to benefit. He's only about 23, what sort of message does that send to the playing group?
DP 21 and the Saints have to give the sweetener I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it?
Geelong have had success with another 200cm athletic type in Blicavs
well thats just dilusional ... pick 21 for stanley is overs Caddy or Murdoch would demand a first round pick on their own
It might be 'delusional', and DP 21 may be overs - but as there are reportedly 'several clubs' enquiring about Stanley - I would drive a very hard bargain if clubs are chasing - because I don't want to trade him. Is that ok? Unless it was the Saints putting his name up for trade.....
of course we would be looking for the best offer - we are not stupid but other factors for instance Rhys wishes of where he wants to go come into it .. Freo may offer more but if Rhys doesnt want to go there we cant force him i think pick 21 is putting it out there that that is the asking price for him so if you want him you gotta beat that
With Stanley officially on the market...he may well nominate his own choice and then we could be screwed.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
) the intrigue his/her statements carry, it makes it feel like we (saintsatiuonalists) are part of a covert operation
I'd be wanting Caddy or Murdoch as well. otherwise p!ss off - not going to happen though is it? 
