Does Gresham hold 1st round trade value??

[BadRossco]

Doubt we would get a FRDP, overrated by a lot of supporters, does have much needed pace and certainly has a dip but decision making and disposal are below standard in a side that already has its share of ball butchers

[B.M]

He does

That’s why we should retain him

If he’s a good player - why on earth would we get rid of him?!
That is illogical

You DONT get better by getting rid of talent

You get better by adding it

Not a hard concept to fathom?!

[CQ SAINT]

Hamill??

Hamill was traded for pick 4

Hamill played 98 games for StK

Finished top 3 in the B&F once and averaged 1.2goals per game

Nothing startling about that

G-Train for pick 18 the same year much better

Dal for the first rounder acquired from Hall trade

Schneider and Dempster for pick 26 trumps them all imo

But Steele was a steal!!!

Ask the top ten draft picks of the era about the impact Hamill had on their professionalism and their development. I have, there is no doubt in my mind he was setting standards not seen at our club in decades.

[Scollop]

He's a very good player. Trading him would be a huge mistake. He's one of the few guys in our team who can make something out of nothing. He was very good in the first half of the season before his knee started troubling him.

If there's no guarantee of getting someone better, why would you do it?

Thats a great assessment.

However, since getting a huge (HUGE) contract extension in 2019, he has played 50% of games, falling injured again this year, just in time for do or die games and finals?

So for you, it's better the devil you know.

I understand what you are saying regarding paying big coin and not getting a return, but I reckon when it comes to injuries, you just have to wear it. I’d rather hang onto him because I’m pretty sure that his preparation will be first rate and he’ll be ready to go round 1 next year.

You can’t say that Gresh is worth a good pick if we trade him but logically it’s better to get rid of him. How can you predict whether a player gets injured? How do you know our draftee won’t get injured as often?

The TPP is relevant but surely we need to keep our good players. I reckon we should target young mids who are not getting regularly senior games. Like we did with Steele. I’m sure oppo teams are trying to lure Bytel.

[CQ SAINT]

He's a very good player. Trading him would be a huge mistake. He's one of the few guys in our team who can make something out of nothing. He was very good in the first half of the season before his knee started troubling him.

If there's no guarantee of getting someone better, why would you do it?

Thats a great assessment.

However, since getting a huge (HUGE) contract extension in 2019, he has played 50% of games, falling injured again this year, just in time for do or die games and finals?

So for you, it's better the devil you know.

I understand what you are saying regarding paying big coin and not getting a return, but I reckon when it comes to injuries, you just have to wear it. I’d rather hang onto him because I’m pretty sure that his preparation will be first rate and he’ll be ready to go round 1 next year. 7th

You can’t say that Gresh is worth a good pick if we trade him but logically it’s better to get rid of him. How can you predict whether a player gets injured? How do you know our draftee won’t get injured as often?

The TPP is relevant but surely we need to keep our good players. I reckon we should target young mids who are not getting regularly senior games. Like we did with Steele. I’m sure oppo teams are trying to lure Bytel.

Gresham's injuries aren't really a factor. His upside in team like Richmond is massive compared to the task he has in a team like St.Kilda. whether we like it or not, Gresh is our unknown x factor. His ceiling is something like 25+ disposals, 2 goals and 5 clearances a game and you could still expect half that in a poor showing.

[saynta]

He's a very good player. Trading him would be a huge mistake. He's one of the few guys in our team who can make something out of nothing. He was very good in the first half of the season before his knee started troubling him.

If there's no guarantee of getting someone better, why would you do it?

Thats a great assessment.

However, since getting a huge (HUGE) contract extension in 2019, he has played 50% of games, falling injured again this year, just in time for do or die games and finals?

So for you, it's better the devil you know.

I understand what you are saying regarding paying big coin and not getting a return, but I reckon when it comes to injuries, you just have to wear it. I’d rather hang onto him because I’m pretty sure that his preparation will be first rate and he’ll be ready to go round 1 next year. 7th

You can’t say that Gresh is worth a good pick if we trade him but logically it’s better to get rid of him. How can you predict whether a player gets injured? How do you know our draftee won’t get injured as often?

The TPP is relevant but surely we need to keep our good players. I reckon we should target young mids who are not getting regularly senior games. Like we did with Steele. I’m sure oppo teams are trying to lure Bytel.

Gresham's injuries aren't really a factor. His upside in team like Richmond is massive compared to the task he has in a team like St.Kilda. whether we like it or not, Gresh is our unknown x factor. His ceiling is something like 25+ disposals, 2 goals and 5 clearances a game and you could still expect half that in a poor showing.

Why do you want to make our close opponents better FFS?

[B.M]

In that case, if setting standards and leadership, rather than actual output is what we measure trade value

D.Hannebery and pick 38 (Battle) for pick 29

Is outstanding value

[Saints58]

I would not trade him he played some good footy early in the season and we need quality player like him in the midfield especially now we are likely to loose hill.
Also I heard Essendon is going to offer Bytel a 2 year deal compared to the 1 year we are talking about he is another player who we can not afforded to trade I know he has been injured but his last 6 weeks at Sandy were very good.
Bytel is a better option then jones who I don't see in our future so trade jones for what we can get 3 or 4 rounder with what we get for hill as well.

[CQ SAINT]

In that case, if setting standards and leadership, rather than actual output is what we measure trade value

D.Hannebery and pick 38 (Battle) for pick 29

Is outstanding value

It was outstanding value, Hamill gave us 98 games though, as you mentioned.

And I'd take Hamill's 98 games as a true high half forward at 184cm and 95kg's over anything that has been produced at St,Kilda since, even without the leadership factor.

[B.M]

In his last season and a half he was shot!

Hamill was a workhorse medium forward.

But as far as output goes, Gehrig was twice the player.

Sean Dempster was a dual AA defender who played 155 games

Jack Steele is also a dual AA and B&F and twice the player Hamill was

I think Hamill was a good player, and as ferocious a player as there’s been

But there was in that period, many better players, and there have been many better since!

I rate Membrey, a three time leading goalkicker higher than Hamill.

[Scollop]

Dempster wasn’t a ‘dual’ All Australian

Love the Skunk but I rate Sammy higher than both Sean and Membrey. If Skunk keeps playing for five more years or whatever he keeps playing for, I may reassess then

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Dempster

[CQ SAINT]

In that case, if setting standards and leadership, rather than actual output is what we measure trade value

D.Hannebery and pick 38 (Battle) for pick 29

Is outstanding value

The trade for Hanners was outstanding. 98 games would have changed our history dramatically but it didn't.

For most of the football world, the Hamill trade was a coup. He took the number 4 straight from Kernahan. We took a favourite son of Carlton's and his impact at St.Kilda has been vaunted as outstanding by players who are in our Hall of Fame.

Here's a reminder of just how much he impacted as a leading, high half forward. He was a medium forward playing CHF.

[Munga]

No defensive game. Can't carry many of those.

Would be a very talented forward if all he had to do was kick goals.

The stats show him as having made an average of 3.17 tackles per game this year. In comparison, the stats for the much-vaunted Ben Long were 3.05 per game, and for Windhager 2.17 per game.

Windhager doesn't need to tackle when he doesn't let his man get the ball in the first place

That's tongue in cheek, I get what you're saying. As a full time mid I wouldn't compare him with Longy.
Steele, Crouch, Jones, Ross etc. I would.
I wasn't just talking tackles, but chase, defensive pressure, defensive positioning etc.

But while we're on tackles (avg):
Crouch 7.14
Steele 7.11
Owens 4.14
Butler 4.05
Jones 3.54
Ross 3.38

Gresham 3.17

So he's the bottom of the pile there. A first year player and a forward ahead of him. But regardless of that, he doesn't seem to help the team defensively as much as he should (even quoted so by players).

It's a real shame. He could be an absolute star.

[Sanctorum]

I'm not saying categorically St Kilda should get rid of Gresham nor that I don't rate him, it's simply that I feel he has not stepped up to the next level which his earlier years suggested he would do, and that's in part due to his deficiencies that I pointed out previously. So like many others he is currently only just an average player on the list, there are far too many in this category! I'm also not totally convinced that at age 25 he will improve a hell of a lot. If his best position is midfield or small half-forward, as the latter are there others who are superior to Gresham - Higgins, Butler? As a midfielder is he equal or better than the current squad and are Windhager, Owens and Bytel likely to become better than Gresham in the immediate future?

My argument is that in 12 months time he will be RFA and may well choose to go elsewhere then, so if the club can get real value him this year in a trade that will substantially improve the list I'd give it very serious consideration. The club has made it clear that there will be a brutal overhaul of the current list with all options on the table, and there's no reason to believe that Gresham will be immune to this process.

Yes, there's no question the club has done some really dumb deals that have come back to bite them in the bum in the past, but as an optimist I have faith they've got to get that right sooner or later.