Raph Clarke

[JeffDunne]

TBH, for a kid that's had the injury problems he's had, and inparticular with his back, I was pleased to see the courage he displayed in a tough role.

If he's the worst player on our list we don't have much to worry about.

[kaos theory]

People seem to forget some basic FACTS:

- When has Raph played a full season or near full season without any sigificant injury that has limited his development, since he has been at the club???

Not sure? Its, NONE!

How do you expect a palyer to develop and reach his potential under those conditions???

Honestly, some of you here have the memory & reasoning abilities of an ant.

Some of you here listen a few comments from robo walls, or some other commentator about a fumble or two in ONE GAME, and based on that the guy is a dud and has no future....pure stupidity!


This is the FIRST time he has had a decent pre-season. He has missed at least 2 years of development as a player. Lets give him the full year before we start considering throwing players away...

[matrix]

hey, i think he could be a great player........
he just frustrates me to hell, thats all.
give him plenty of game time now he has some decent training under him, and lets see what he can do........but the pressures on

[backit]

Gotta agree with Kaos Theory.

Raph has never had an uninterupted pre season yet and this is the first time he is at this stage. I have previously defended him on this site and will still do until someone can say to me that he has no talent or ability and is a complete dud. That wont happen he is developing and will be important for us a club going forward.

H eis now a premiership player albiet it is pre season but thats more than many other previous saints champions have ever had the opportunity to be in.

[joffaboy]

I have previously defended him on this site and will still do until someone can say to me that he has no talent or ability and is a complete dud.

Raph Clare is a dud of the highest order.

He has no hidden talent, nothing.

He only has a mind full of indecision.

Sorry to be harsh, but he will lose us games if we keep him in the side. How much confidence do you need to just..fricking kick the ball to a team mate?

There you go.

Even though the twit called him Raph Clare, the clue less cabbage stated all of your criteria.

[backit]

Sorry my mistake, I didn't listen to the expert who can make or break careers. Give me a break I did mean someone with credability and football nous. Not a person who gets online and enjoys bagging others.

[The_Dud]

the problem is, we were making these same excuses for him 2 years ago

he ain't getting any better

and Kaos Theory, its not in just one game that he's making these simple mistakes, is every game, usually a couple of time a game, and when you're playing in defence and you can't handle pressure (as it appears for Raph) then he's gonna cost us goals and ultimetly games

play him on the wing or put him back in the 2's, we can't continue to carry him in defence and hope that one day he starts to improve

[BAM! (shhhh)]

the problem is, we were making these same excuses for him 2 years ago

he ain't getting any better

and Kaos Theory, its not in just one game that he's making these simple mistakes, is every game, usually a couple of time a game, and when you're playing in defence and you can't handle pressure (as it appears for Raph) then he's gonna cost us goals and ultimetly games

play him on the wing or put him back in the 2's, we can't continue to carry him in defence and hope that one day he starts to improve

On the strength of preseason, you'd expect to see him start the year at Casey. As much as people will continue to disagree on his talent level, basically IMO it comes down to him needing to earn a spot, and his decisions aren't up to it. In the games that will precede the return of Goddard and Maguire, there are other guys who we'll be as well served by seeing as an out of form Raph Clarke.

Let him work up some consistency and some confidence, and hopefully we'll yet see Raph Clarke put it all together.

[To the top]

Funny how you "supporters" jump all over a player.

Even more funny is how you pick out a disposal which went to a stationary player - and how those in the media lambast - as if they were perfect.

The question is, where was the moving option - if there was one because you would assume that, if there was a moving option that option would have been used?

It is a team game.

I recall Clarke flying in a pack and getting hands on the ball - and the commentators saying he was stiff not to be paid a great grab.

I recall he had a fair bit of the ball - probably 15 possessions as a defender. And my view was that he positioned and played well, assisting in rendering Adelaide's attack impotent despite the run they had from defence and thru the middle.

And the final barb to those of you who are armchair experts, Clarke is actually playing AFL footy.

How many of you have done the same thing, and speak from personal experience?

With the commentators, well it is the old saying. The more retired you are the better you become.

[rodgerfox]

As a junior, how many games did Raph play as a defender?

[Huzzad]

the problem is, we were making these same excuses for him 2 years ago

he ain't getting any better

and Kaos Theory, its not in just one game that he's making these simple mistakes, is every game, usually a couple of time a game, and when you're playing in defence and you can't handle pressure (as it appears for Raph) then he's gonna cost us goals and ultimetly games

play him on the wing or put him back in the 2's, we can't continue to carry him in defence and hope that one day he starts to improve

Too right. I heard those comments too about Raph on 10 or SEN and they weren't basing it on that one game, but alluded to his consistant inconsistancy (pun intended).

As dud said, how many years has it been? I'm pretty sure Roo has had worse injuries than Raph Clarke and more interrupted pre-seasons yet he has pulled through. CJ missed more games than raph last year, has played less footy over all and is only in his second season yet his development has been much quicker and substantial and is now pushing for 22. I am not a professional athlete, but I have seen plenty of footy over the years and people who have suffered worse injuries than him. There has gotta be a point where injuries end and footy smarts start. I do not think Raph has the footy smarts to play. That has nothing to do with injury or game time. It's grass roots footy and natural judgement. Talent counts for nothing if you do not know how to apply it.

I guess the questionmark around his head for me is just how many more excuses are we going to come up with for him?

Sorry Raph, you've had plenty of time and you do show plenty of promise, but you havn't delivered. I'm over it. When Goose and Maxy are back this guy will be out of the team, or at least should be. Lyon's patience would be as thin as paper after putting so much time into him and getting such average results.

[brown-coat]

hey, i think he could be a great player........

Why?

He's slow, uncoordinated and indecisive. What is it about him that makes people think he has talent?

[hAyES]

hey, i think he could be a great player........

Why?

He's slow, uncoordinated and indecisive. What is it about him that makes people think he has talent?

Very interested in seeing responses to this, because I'm yet to see anything that makes me think he can get into this side.

[Apu]

Frustrates the hell outta me to watch Raph. Most of the time hes pretty good, but a couple of times every game he manages to do something really really stupid. If only he can fix up that part of his game...

Hes not in our best 22, but i think its worth giving him a chance to prove himself after having the benefit of a full preseason behind him.

[rodgerfox]

hey, i think he could be a great player........

Why?

He's slow, uncoordinated and indecisive. What is it about him that makes people think he has talent?

Very interested in seeing responses to this, because I'm yet to see anything that makes me think he can get into this side.

He's courageous.

Finally injury free.

First pre-season ever pretty much.

Highly respected and rated by both his senior AFL coaches.

Fast.

Tough.

Never really played as a defender before his few injury riddled AFL games.

Has played as pretty much a KPP in a backline missing Max, Goose, Sam Fisher and BJ for his entire career.

Is still a kid.

[The_Dud]

Funny how you "supporters" jump all over a player.

Even more funny is how you pick out a disposal which went to a stationary player - and how those in the media lambast - as if they were perfect.

The question is, where was the moving option - if there was one because you would assume that, if there was a moving option that option would have been used?

It is a team game.

I recall Clarke flying in a pack and getting hands on the ball - and the commentators saying he was stiff not to be paid a great grab.

I recall he had a fair bit of the ball - probably 15 possessions as a defender. And my view was that he positioned and played well, assisting in rendering Adelaide's attack impotent despite the run they had from defence and thru the middle.

And the final barb to those of you who are armchair experts, Clarke is actually playing AFL footy.

How many of you have done the same thing, and speak from personal experience?

With the commentators, well it is the old saying. The more retired you are the better you become.

Just because i support St Kilda doesn't mean that they're infallible

i want to see Raph make it, but i don't think its gonna happen

nearly everyone of his disposals are hospital passes or put the reciever under pressure

you say how he nearly took a good pack mark. sorry, but he actually has to start taking these marks

its not so much a talent thing but a mental thing

he should be put back in the 2's and made to EARN his spot in the 22, not get it on 'potential'

[JeffDunne]

He did take the mark. It wasn't paid but it was a mark.

I think it's pretty clear Raph needs to improve his ability to switch on for 100mins. Not uncommon in young players and he'll improve in time.

He has enough talent and character to warrant being patient.

[nicola69]

Disagree with the negative stuff about Raph Clarke. Here are some points:

1. He is not slow at all. He has a loping, long striding style of running that appears fairly effortless. Watch more closely, they don't catch him very often.

2. He breaks the lines all the time. Raph likes to draw players to him to free up other team mates. Often he takes hits for the sake of the side doing this. He is very creative with his disposals using this tactic.

3. He is good in the air.

4. Great temperament. He is a real team player. Very professional in his demeanour

5. He has great anticipation and reads the play well. Ever noticed how often he gets back to be the only player near goal when the opposition has over kicked their coverage of the forward line?

6. He has the right physique for AFL. There are other sides that are scratching to find tall skillful running backmen like him.

7. Kicks and handballs well on both sides of the body. And at the drop of a hat too. The bloke has top notch disposal skills.

I can almost see why he is offside with some of the correspondents. I think the things I said in 1. and 2. above can be easily misinterpreted as slow and awkward. Watch what he does more closely.

Obviously, he would be a starter if I was choosing the team.

[saintsRrising]

The bloke has top notch disposal skills.

.

I think many of your points are well made.....but during the game his disposal skills are often lacking.

In particular it is not enough to dispose of the ball toa team mate...you need to to this to your advanatge.

For example raph often kicks the ball to where a Saints team mate is...rather than kicking it so his team mate has to run to it.

The result is that the opposition has time to run in and spoil...or even mark.

Raph has huge talent...no doubt. But there is also no doubt that he is no making full use of his talent. Lets hope that he can really develop this season.

[nicko016]

He's not in our best 22 yet but he's definately worth persisting with and with a good pre-season should be able to make good progress this year. Seems to need to put more time into executing the basics because the disposal errors he makes he can't afford to continually make. But, he definately should be able to become a good player with games, rather than time, because he still has only played 30 games. Hopefully he can get some continuity in his game like he did in 2005 where he experienced a good season, his best season so far.

[nicola69]

The bloke has top notch disposal skills.

.

I think many of your points are well made.....but during the game his disposal skills are often lacking.

In particular it is not enough to dispose of the ball toa team mate...you need to to this to your advanatge.

For example raph often kicks the ball to where a Saints team mate is...rather than kicking it so his team mate has to run to it.

The result is that the opposition has time to run in and spoil...or even mark.

Raph has huge talent...no doubt. But there is also no doubt that he is no making full use of his talent. Lets hope that he can really develop this season.

thanks - look I would concede that he is not 9/10 with disposals, but he is not one dimensional with what he tries to do. He is a creative type and I think he really adds to the attacking verve the side has. Keep in mind too that he plays deep in defence usually and that's where it gets really tight when the balls spills loose. He butters up with the best of them in these situations.

regards

[The_Dud]

his disposal was terrible on saturday night, time after time he gave out hospital passes, most of the time not under too much pressure, but put his team mates under huge pressure, or even just directy turned it over

and then there was that kick to Dal Santo in the backline, under ZERO pressure, that ended up out of bounds and nearly costing us a goal

but like i said, its all mental

he doesn't make desicions quick enough, he doesn't sum up the situation quick enough, he doesn't think ahead

if he fixes that, then he'll be a chance

[Unforgiven]

I don't know why I still do, but I rate him. I just think he has the talent and the ability, to repeat what everyone else said, yeah I think playing a key position probably didn't help. I reckon Raph could go ok with Sam, Goose and Max takin the key talls, and Raph being able to float, rather that stick to a player

[Huzzad]

he doesn't make desicions quick enough, he doesn't sum up the situation quick enough, he doesn't think ahead

I think this is what most people mean when they say he is slow. Cause we have seen him run with the ball, he is quick. He just has poor decision-making skills, takes too long to pass it and when he does, our players are no longer free because the opposition have had enough time to tag anyone he can pass it too. This is what I have been saying the whole time. No one doubts his talent, just his head. Because that is what is making all the mistakes. Silly frees against, silly positioning and silly disposals. If he cleaned that up he'd be nearly as good as his brother. The amount of times I have thrown things accross the room due his mistakes is starting to add up, and it will add up on the scoreboard in due time.

I think we'd all like to put on raph-coloured glasses and hope he becomes the player we all want him to be. Unfortuntly, that is looking less likely everytime he takes the feild.

[Teflon]

Do not want a bagging thread . . . .

So why start one?

Your bagging of him in other threads not providing you with enough satisfaction?

Raph certainly needs to step up and earn his place in the 22.

I fairness though, the kid has missed a lot of football and has been asked to play some pretty demading roles.

Dont like the thread?

Dont read/dont reply? (note youve had a few cracks at it though... )

Last I looked baiting was one of the site rules...if you haven't the maturity to discuss areas where our side can improve - including players performances - best stick to BF and virtual Board land...

ps: pop the kettle on will you luv? (last Board meeting minutes 180208)