rodgerfox wrote:saintsRrising wrote:WayneJudson42 wrote:Ok, so let me get this straight...
First it was Brisbane we had to copy coz they were the benchmark. We did that but the game moved on.
Then we had to copy Geelong because their style was the biggest thing since sliced bread...
NOW we have to go down the Hawthorn path? 
What about next year? Who do we have to copy next?
No...you miss the point entirely.
You do not have to ape Hawthorn...or the Lions..or the Swans in terms of exactly doing what they did etc.
But whichever path you use you have to do it VERY WELL.
And in particular whether you draft or trade...you have to pick well and develop that talent well
....and you must do it with an overall team structure and gameplan in mind.
This the Hawks did.
The Swans
The Cat's
The Lions.
They all need it in different styles...but all assembled very good talent to suit a particular vision.
At the start of the noughties we were do it very well....and our fortunes lifted.
BUT then we lost focus and made many poor decisions and in particular with our incoming talent.
So we went into decline...
The reason I am such a Lyon fan and have been from Day 1 is that he clearly has a vision for the type of team that he believes will be successful and he is going about building it in a systematic and deliberate manner.
That is the lesson from that article on the Hawks.
It is also why I disagree with the recruit the best available player philosophy (apart from say the first pick..).
You need rather to have decided what type of team you are builder...and then to get the players you need to achieve it..
Your starting pool of players may of course influence where you decide to go....as I am sure it did with Roos when he gained the Swans list.
So why hasn't Lyon traded anyone?
He's kept every single genuine player we had - and only discarded VFL players.
I'm not sure Lyon is as systematic as some think.
There's no evidence to suggest he's building anything. It seems as though he's topping up more than any coach in the comp.
One week we seem hell bent on defensive, lockdown type footy. But then Fiora is selected for a prelim final.
It actually frustrates me incredibly that we don't seem to have a system at all - on the park on a weekly basis or at a long term level.
If Lyon was fair dinkum about walking in and having a vision in mind for how he wanted us to play, and the type of player he wants to carry it out - it must be the greatest coincidence of all time that every one of our established players fits that bill.
Especially considering our list was in such horrendous decline.
Are Jones, Eddy, Dempster and Matthew Clarke his fix?
I think you have some pretty intense rose coloured glasses on SrR. You seem to be seeing what you want to see happen, rather than what is actually happening.
RF, while I agree that sRr sees the world through rose-coloured glasses (or, perhaps it might be better to say, through the astigmatism of his agenda), I think Lyon did come to the club with the idea of the sort of team he was trying to build and that players like Doc Clarke, Jones, Dempster, Eddy, Raph, Schneider and an in-form Fiora (which we got in spades during 2007, but time now seems to have passed him by) all fit into his vision of what he is looking for.
As I see it, Lyon has a preferred structure in his mind, and has rotated all the players at the club - bar Steven, Connors and (except for one game when he was the last man standing) Howard through it over the past two years to try to see who he likes in what role.
I know I'll get flamed for writing this, but I don't care. The structure Lyon is looking for is a modified version of the Swans' structure. Apart from his stopper in Max (and a younger, less accomplished version of Max probably wouldn't get a run under Lyon), he is looking to have a number of tallish players in the backline who can run and set up play down field. Dempster, Sam Fisher, Gilbert and now Raph have impressed him as being able to do this. He has also often looked to use BJ in this role, but has (it would seem) finally started to appreciate that BJ goes better further upfield. He would seem to have given up on Leigh Fisher, has never been impressed by Ferguson, and also seems to be a bit dubious about Geary in this role.
He would ideally like to have 4 or more in-and-under, lock down/tagging midfielders: he used Harves more in this role than Thomas did, plus Hayes and Ball and sometimes Dal and Joey and even Schneider helping out (and Armo getting guernsey when someone was injured, although - rightly - Lyon isn't hugely impressed with Armo's work rate). He has also used Jones - not by any stretch an in-and-under player - to provide a bit of midfield grunt in the absence of someone harder and more skilled.
He would also like to have several outside midfielders/half forwards who can get away from their opponents, either through speed or stamina or a combination of both. He used Fiora in this role until his form deserted him. He has now moved Gram forward to do this work. Joey gets a run in this role from time to time. He has also experimented with Gwilt there a bit, with some success. And Eddy - with his enormous stamina - is another experiment. Maybe he'd like Geary to do some of this work, and I suspect Howard, Steven and Connors are earmarked to have a go in this spot as well.
I think Lyon might see Birss as being neither totally an in-and-under player nor an outside player, so doesn't seem to want him. He also doesn't seem to know quite what to do with Dal. He isn't really looking to create a lot from the middle of the park except at centre bounces: he wants to start moves from the back.
They're calling my flight. I will return to this later.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
How credible is that info?
