Jimmy Gwilt - Best 22

[bergholt]

In fairness to Jimmy, WCE and Bulldogs have no real key fwds, so yes, the above mentioned will be more damaging because they get more of it.

He's competing against a red hot Roo and Kosi, who are the designated go to players.

in fairness to accuracy, he's not just competing with roo and kosi. the forward line has consisted of six players consistently this season. this is how many marks they've each averaged a game:

riewoldt: 9.45
koschitzke: 6.70
milne: 4.78
schneider: 3.91
gwilt: 3.91
mcqualter: 2.45

how is milne averaging more, and schneider the same, number of marks a game as gwilt? gwilt's apparently a good mark - milne and schneider are definitely not.

can anyone explain this stat?

[Milton66]

In fairness to Jimmy, WCE and Bulldogs have no real key fwds, so yes, the above mentioned will be more damaging because they get more of it.

He's competing against a red hot Roo and Kosi, who are the designated go to players.

in fairness to accuracy, he's not just competing with roo and kosi. the forward line has consisted of six players consistently this season. this is how many marks they've each averaged a game:

riewoldt: 9.45
koschitzke: 6.70
milne: 4.78
schneider: 3.91
gwilt: 3.91
mcqualter: 2.45

how is milne averaging more, and schneider the same, number of marks a game as gwilt? gwilt's apparently a good mark - milne and schneider are definitely not.

can anyone explain this stat?

wtf?

I get the feeling that you like to argue for the sake of it.

Your stats have nothing to do with it.

Why not break it down to see where Milne and Schneider take their marks.

The point I'm making is that he's not the preferred avenue to goal.

Different players with different roles.

So, if he's so bad, why haven't they dropped him, Einstein?

[BigMart]

If he plays fwd and is not an avenue toward goal....then what is he???

A Decoy????

Didn't know good sides had players performing roles where they are relatively ineffective..

[Milton66]

If he plays fwd and is not an avenue toward goal....then what is he???

A Decoy????

Didn't know good sides had players performing roles where they are relatively ineffective..

Mate, your form on Jimmy is well known.

So now tell me why they haven't dropped him?

I'm not saying he's great, but he's obviously being developed for that role, so lay off and give the kid some time.

Never said he's a decoy. Given a choice of 3 players, who would you kick it to?????????????

[saintsRrising]

In fairness to Jimmy, WCE and Bulldogs have no real key fwds, so yes, the above mentioned will be more damaging because they get more of it.

He's competing against a red hot Roo and Kosi, who are the designated go to players.

in fairness to accuracy, he's not just competing with roo and kosi. the forward line has consisted of six players consistently this season. this is how many marks they've each averaged a game:

riewoldt: 9.45
koschitzke: 6.70
milne: 4.78
schneider: 3.91
gwilt: 3.91
mcqualter: 2.45

how is milne averaging more, and schneider the same, number of marks a game as gwilt? gwilt's apparently a good mark - milne and schneider are definitely not.

can anyone explain this stat?

1/ They are better players
2/There is myth about Gwilt being a good mark. Where does it come from.

Lastly I don't understand you comment on Milne. He is actually quitea good mark as long as his opponent does not havea height advantage.

Milne often leads well into space as well and so provides a marking target.

[BigMart]

No better option.....we have not lost and Ross wants to keep the same structure.....whether that is the right call will be more clear in about 4 weeks...not whilst we are shredding midfields.....and our defense is the best in the AFL by a S***load

[saint66au]

Heres the Gwilt thread....talk about him...here... til you drop

Bigmart...noones trying to stifle discussion..but unlike a lot of boards we dont have a merge function..so w try and keep topics to one thread where we can..unless it is a some massive story. We arent perfect but we try when we can

Its just housekeeping, dont hang the mods cos you decide to start new threads to make sure your point gets across

[Milton66]

No better option.....we have not lost and Ross wants to keep the same structure.....whether that is the right call will be more clear in about 4 weeks...not whilst we are shredding midfields.....and our defense is the best in the AFL by a S***load

So you acknowledge that there's no better option?

That's a different argument. I'd like to know who exactly he's keeping out of the side...

Lynch? Not ready for AFL

Armo? Doesn't have the sive to play 3rd tall.

Goose? Possibly, but has he done everything asked of him?

Gram came back,, and so will Milne when fit.

BTW, I'd have JG as starting 22 ahead of Baker at the moment.

Even at 11-0 we still have a few holes to plug. So let's wait and see how it pans out. He may fail, or he might just get better.

You cannot judge a guy's career on 35 odd games.

On that logic, we should have traded BJ and a few others.

[Devilhead]

blah blah blah blah blah ..... gwilt is crap ...... blah blah blah blah ........ gwilt is hopeless ..... blah blah blah blah ...... gwilt is shite ....... blah blah blah blah blah blah ....... drop gwilt ........ blah blah blah blah blah blah

Yet he still remains in the side after 11 straight wins

Our coach obviously thinks he is a doing a fantastic job in his designated role

Keep up the great work Jim!!!

[SainterK]

I don't know guys, it's a little hard to find a thread on here about Gwilt....perhaps we could have more?

I haven't seen this many individual negative threads on someone since Kosi and Dal last year, funny how all that has died down now.

Here's a thought, maybe Ross puts faith in people and gets results?

[Milton66]

I don't know guys, it's a little hard to find a thread on here about Gwilt....perhaps we could have more?

I haven't seen this many individual negative threads on someone since Kosi and Dal last year, funny how all that has died down now.

Here's a thought, maybe Ross puts faith in people and gets results?

ya reckon?

[meher baba]

I think that the team selection policy under Lyon and fellow selectors has been remarkably consistent since mid-2008.

There is a preferred on-field structure. Lyon and co. fill each role in this structure with the best available player. If there are two experienced players going for the one role, then one misses out. Lyon will typically not supplant less experienced players from roles that they are fulfilling adequately in order to accommodate a regular AFL player.

The only thing that will radically alter this approach is injury.

Under GT, the team structure would quite frequently be altered to allow regulars to return at the expense of the less experienced. Hence Gwilt would have been moved out and someone else (probably BJ) would have been moved forward to allow Goose or Dempster to come back in.

Lyon doesn't like to do this sort of thing. On the basis of what he has achieved over the past 25 or so games, I'm certainly not going to argue with him.

[bergholt]

I get the feeling that you like to argue for the sake of it.

Your stats have nothing to do with it.

Why not break it down to see where Milne and Schneider take their marks.

The point I'm making is that he's not the preferred avenue to goal.

you're saying he's playing as third tall forward. by any definition a tall forward should take marks. he and milne play in very similar parts of the ground (inside 50 and across half forward) and milne takes more marks than him, as a small forward. therefore i submit that he's not performing his role as a tall forward.

Different players with different roles.

So, if he's so bad, why haven't they dropped him, Einstein?

because they don't want to, i guess.

i'm saying that i don't agree with the selection committee when they pick him. i don't have to justify why they do pick him, because i disagree with that decision. understand?

[Milton66]

I get the feeling that you like to argue for the sake of it.

Your stats have nothing to do with it.

Why not break it down to see where Milne and Schneider take their marks.

The point I'm making is that he's not the preferred avenue to goal.

you're saying he's playing as third tall forward. by any definition a tall forward should take marks. he and milne play in very similar parts of the ground (inside 50 and across half forward) and milne takes more marks than him, as a small forward. therefore i submit that he's not performing his role as a tall forward.

Different players with different roles.

So, if he's so bad, why haven't they dropped him, Einstein?

because they don't want to, i guess.

i'm saying that i don't agree with the selection committee when they pick him. i don't have to justify why they do pick him, because i disagree with that decision. understand?

And the main reason takes marks one out, is because Roo, Kosi and Gwilt have drawn players and created space.

No you don't have to justify why they pick him... but you shopuld put up a reasonable justification why they shouldn't.

And furthermore, your argument holds no cred if you cannot back it up with who you'd replace him with, and why.

Sure, you can say put Gilbert up there, but who moves into the backline to do Gilbert's job. Maybe Gilbo will kick two goals a week, but his replacement might concede 2 goals a week.

There is a thing known as balance. If you move a Gilbert fwd coz he'll do better than Gwilt, then you need to replace Gilbo with some one equal to the task, if not better.

It's not as simple as dropping a plyer and moving in another to play his role. There's many factors and scenarios that go into the whole thing.

[bergholt]

No you don't have to justify why they pick him... but you shopuld put up a reasonable justification why they shouldn't.

because he's not in good form. he's not kicking goals and that's what i expect of a forward. also, he's not getting enough of the ball to be a link between the midfield and forward line - to be the true half forward.

And furthermore, your argument holds no cred if you cannot back it up with who you'd replace him with, and why.

gwilt's not taking many marks. therefore he's not playing a role as marking half forward. therefore there's no need to replace him with another marking player, like a gilbert or maguire or even raph clarke or goddard.

i'd like to see gwilt replaced with a small who can be more productive as a half-forward - who'll kick more goals, have more assists, get more of the ball as a link between forward and midfield, and who'll have good defensive pressure. a similar role to that mcqualter's been playing this year. (more disposals, more tackles, more goals, more assists than gwilt.)

either eddy or armitage can do this job.

[plugger66]

No you don't have to justify why they pick him... but you shopuld put up a reasonable justification why they shouldn't.

because he's not in good form. he's not kicking goals and that's what i expect of a forward. also, he's not getting enough of the ball to be a link between the midfield and forward line - to be the true half forward.

And furthermore, your argument holds no cred if you cannot back it up with who you'd replace him with, and why.

gwilt's not taking many marks. therefore he's not playing a role as marking half forward. therefore there's no need to replace him with another marking player, like a gilbert or maguire or even raph clarke or goddard.

i'd like to see gwilt replaced with a small who can be more productive as a half-forward - who'll kick more goals, have more assists, get more of the ball as a link between forward and midfield, and who'll have good defensive pressure. a similar role to that mcqualter's been playing this year. (more disposals, more tackles, more goals, more assists than gwilt.)

either eddy or armitage can do this job.

But RL obviously wants a tall for stucture and I will back he knows what he is doing. By the way when did Armo and Eddy become goalkickers? I havent seen anything from them to suggest they could play permanent half forward.

[bergholt]

But RL obviously wants a tall for stucture and I will back he knows what he is doing. By the way when did Armo and Eddy become goalkickers? I havent seen anything from them to suggest they could play permanent half forward.

tall? gwilt's 188. that's one centimetre taller than ray, two centimetres taller than hayes and gram. barely a towering presence. maybe this explains why he barely takes a mark.

armo kicked 10.6 in 13 games last year, that's not bad. in eddy's two games this year, he kicked one and had three goal assists. also not bad. incidentally, both are better tacklers than gwilt, and i'm all for forward pressure.

[kaos theory]

Gwilt is doing ok, but CJ, Mini, Geary & Dawson have gone past him in their value to the team.

These other players were also often questioned, whether they were good enough to cope at the highest levels of the game. But they have each shown real improvement.

RL I think likes to give some players a lot of time to get their game together. Many of us wouldn't have given CJ, dawson, geary or mini so much time to in the team. But this has paid off for RL, they are much better players, and will continue to improve because of the confidence/faith that RL has in them.

But the question needs to be asked, of gwilt: is there a player that could play his role more effectively? Has he had enough time in the firsts to show more significant improvement?

I'm inclined to agree to some extent with bigmart & bergholt on gwilt.

We have gilbo & milne to come back in (along with gardi for king). We have to start moving other players out.

IMO, we have to start thinking about testing other options on the half forward line, with a 3rd marking tall, to see if we can improve more.

Is goose a better option? What if raph stays in but is used at half forward, swapping with gilbo? What abot BJ playing a more permanent role there? etc.

I'm not saying gwilt can't improve more, or that he has little value, but the question is can we improve further with other options? And we will need to improve...

[vacuous space]

the forward line has consisted of six players consistently this season. this is how many marks they've each averaged a game:

riewoldt: 9.45
koschitzke: 6.70
milne: 4.78
schneider: 3.91
gwilt: 3.91
mcqualter: 2.45

This is how many groundballs they've averaged:

McQualter - 5.6
Milne - 4.2
Gwilt - 4.1
Riewoldt - 2.7
Schneider - 2.3
Koschitzke 2.0

Gwilt appears to be playing a medium forward type role where he's expected to contribute both in the air at ground level. He's playing a similar role to what Gilbert was in preseason. I think he's done it without doing it spectacularly. We don't have a lot of options for that specific role. There's Gilbert, Gwilt and Lynch. After that, not a whole lot.

[plugger66]

But RL obviously wants a tall for stucture and I will back he knows what he is doing. By the way when did Armo and Eddy become goalkickers? I havent seen anything from them to suggest they could play permanent half forward.

tall? gwilt's 188. that's one centimetre taller than ray, two centimetres taller than hayes and gram. barely a towering presence. maybe this explains why he barely takes a mark.

armo kicked 10.6 in 13 games last year, that's not bad. in eddy's two games this year, he kicked one and had three goal assists. also not bad. incidentally, both are better tacklers than gwilt, and i'm all for forward pressure.

Again stats are can be twisted to win any arguement and yes Gwilt may not be that tall but neither was Hamill and was classed as a marking forward.

RL obviously wants another marking option and yes I know he doesnt take many marks but he will usally bring the ball to ground. Armo and Eddy are not marking options.

[Milton66]

IMO, we have to start thinking about testing other options on the half forward line, with a 3rd marking tall, to see if we can improve more.

Is goose a better option? What if raph stays in but is used at half forward, swapping with gilbo? What abot BJ playing a more permanent role there? etc.

I'm not saying gwilt can't improve more, or that he has little value, but the question is can we improve further with other options? And we will need to improve...

Late last year, we had many who doubted we could close the gap on the Hawks and Cats, and thought that Cousins was the answer. Yet we've seen drastic improvent from CJ, Geary, and Mini. Dawson was a bonus, and Ray a very astute pick up.

Lo and behold, we are 11-0.

Now my point is that the improvement may come from Gwilt, which I reckon it has so far (and can get better), but our options are thin for that role.

Like I said, we might improve that possie further with another player, but you have to look at the overall team balance, and playing players where they'll hurt the opposition best.

I was reading / listening yesterday (can't remember) about understanding a player's value. Gwilt takes the 3rd best defender, which frees up Roo Kosi, and Milne.

As far as kicking more goals, we have more coming from mids.

[kaos theory]

IMO, we have to start thinking about testing other options on the half forward line, with a 3rd marking tall, to see if we can improve more.

Is goose a better option? What if raph stays in but is used at half forward, swapping with gilbo? What abot BJ playing a more permanent role there? etc.

I'm not saying gwilt can't improve more, or that he has little value, but the question is can we improve further with other options? And we will need to improve...

Late last year, we had many who doubted we could close the gap on the Hawks and Cats, and thought that Cousins was the answer. Yet we've seen drastic improvent from CJ, Geary, and Mini. Dawson was a bonus, and Ray a very astute pick up.

Lo and behold, we are 11-0.

Now my point is that the improvement may come from Gwilt, which I reckon it has so far (and can get better), but our options are thin for that role.

Like I said, we might improve that possie further with another player, but you have to look at the overall team balance, and playing players where they'll hurt the opposition best.

I was reading / listening yesterday (can't remember) about understanding a player's value. Gwilt takes the 3rd best defender, which frees up Roo Kosi, and Milne.

As far as kicking more goals, we have more coming from mids.

your repeating my point. I already acknowledged that cj, geary, mini & dawson had imporved by staying in the team.

My point is that gwilt has had the same time in the team, but hasn't shown the improvement of the others.

Therefore the question remains:

Is gwilt going to get much better, and bring more value to the team? Or will another player, who could replace his role, bring more improvement?

[Milton66]

IMO, we have to start thinking about testing other options on the half forward line, with a 3rd marking tall, to see if we can improve more.

Is goose a better option? What if raph stays in but is used at half forward, swapping with gilbo? What abot BJ playing a more permanent role there? etc.

I'm not saying gwilt can't improve more, or that he has little value, but the question is can we improve further with other options? And we will need to improve...

Late last year, we had many who doubted we could close the gap on the Hawks and Cats, and thought that Cousins was the answer. Yet we've seen drastic improvent from CJ, Geary, and Mini. Dawson was a bonus, and Ray a very astute pick up.

Lo and behold, we are 11-0.

Now my point is that the improvement may come from Gwilt, which I reckon it has so far (and can get better), but our options are thin for that role.

Like I said, we might improve that possie further with another player, but you have to look at the overall team balance, and playing players where they'll hurt the opposition best.

I was reading / listening yesterday (can't remember) about understanding a player's value. Gwilt takes the 3rd best defender, which frees up Roo Kosi, and Milne.

As far as kicking more goals, we have more coming from mids.

your repeating my point. I already acknowledged that cj, geary, mini & dawson had imporved by staying in the team.

My point is that gwilt has had the same time in the team, but hasn't shown the improvement of the others.

Therefore the question remains:

Is gwilt going to get much better, and bring more value to the team? Or will another player, who could replace his role, bring more improvement?

1- time will tell

2- if some one else was available that could do a better job, do you honestly think it wouldn't have happened by now?

All I know is that we have a fwd coach who's come from a successful club, and set up our fwd line with specific plans. JG appears to be a part of that plan for now.

If Goose, Armo or Eddy are seen as a better option, you'd think they'd be playing there by now.

[spert]

Gwilt stays, Raph goes.. let's look at the form of Baker and Goddard..very ordinary the last two games.

[Sobraz]

Gwilt stays, Raph goes.. let's look at the form of Baker and Goddard..very ordinary the last two games.

So your suggesting BJ needs a spell in the 2's...???....