Statistic Rankings from 2011

[spert]

The 1st clearance stat is pretty much stating what I've been watching in 2010 and more so in 11- under Lyon, too much emphasis on stopping the man with the ball rather than getting it first at stoppages and centre bounces. I would like to see Hayes and NDS spend more time in the forward line- Hayes will not be the clearance player we knew from a few years ago, and NDS is a receiver, but should go well cruising in the forward line. We need to develop a new midfield and onball division if we want to win our next flag.

[plugger66]

The 1st clearance stat is pretty much stating what I've been watching in 2010 and more so in 11- under Lyon, too much emphasis on stopping the man with the ball rather than getting it first at stoppages and centre bounces. I would like to see Hayes and NDS spend more time in the forward line- Hayes will not be the clearance player we knew from a few years ago, and NDS is a receiver, but should go well cruising in the forward line. We need to develop a new midfield and onball division if we want to win our next flag.

Sorry but when did Dal ever become a receiver?

[SaintPav]

Again back to the stats our most pressing worry has to be the midfield collectively

Lenny - returning from injury
Armo - Still to prove he can have an impact from a clearances perspective.
Steven - must have more impact in and under and deliver with accuracy

These guys are the extractors and that's where we are falling down. It's too much to expect ledger and ross to have a big impact with their limited development. get games into them but don't expect brownlow level input.

Dal and Monty are outside players, there weapons are accuracy, decision making and delivery.

Who can have an impact in the middle - CJ, Polo, Schneids, Milney? We need someone with more years to step up or we will have a gapping hole.

Rucks are a whole other issue and I've heard the big body argument but fact is we don't have them so it will have to be more atheletic/mobile types.

It is a worry.

I reckon Dal has really developed the inside part of his game where he could be considered both an inside and outside player.

[8856brother]

The 1st clearance stat is pretty much stating what I've been watching in 2010 and more so in 11- under Lyon, too much emphasis on stopping the man with the ball rather than getting it first at stoppages and centre bounces. I would like to see Hayes and NDS spend more time in the forward line- Hayes will not be the clearance player we knew from a few years ago, and NDS is a receiver, but should go well cruising in the forward line. We need to develop a new midfield and onball division if we want to win our next flag.

Sorry but when did Dal ever become a receiver?

Agree P66. Think he's got a little more to his game these days. He's an elite midfielder in all aspects of the role.

[WinnersOnly]

12th in hitouts and 17th in hitouts to advantage!

Ever since his arrival people have crowed over McEvoy but he is not a knock or tap ruckmans bootlace in my opinion. The guy cant jump (he has no leap) and it wouldnt matter if he was 230cm's tall he would get beaten in tap outs. AFL is a game of 'keepings off' and if you lose the first posession you will most likley struggle for the entire game - which occurred in 2011.

This is exactly why the Murray Bushrangers chose not to play him in the ruck and used Dawson SIMPSON. Yet we select him and not only that he is the only true ruckmn on our list, which is very poor list management in my view. Other clubs have at least 4 some 5 ruckman on their list and in a team like Geelong everyone of them would be better than McEvoy at rucking contests.

This is and will remain a major weakness in our team structure!

[samoht]

Ruckmen are overrated for mine.. there's maybe 1 or 2 elite tap ruckmen,that can make a difference, the rest just negate each other.

Our major weakness is lack of quick medium forwards... we need some more size and marking/tackling power and chasing
pressure in our forward line... we've been playing too many small forwards which hasn't worked, especially in tough finals..

[plugger66]

12th in hitouts and 17th in hitouts to advantage!

Ever since his arrival people have crowed over McEvoy but he is not a knock or tap ruckmans bootlace in my opinion. The guy cant jump (he has no leap) and it wouldnt matter if he was 230cm's tall he would get beaten in tap outs. AFL is a game of 'keepings off' and if you lose the first posession you will most likley struggle for the entire game - which occurred in 2011.

This is exactly why the Murray Bushrangers chose not to play him in the ruck and used Dawson SIMPSON. Yet we select him and not only that he is the only true ruckmn on our list, which is very poor list management in my view. Other clubs have at least 4 some 5 ruckman on their list and in a team like Geelong everyone of them would be better than McEvoy at rucking contests.

This is and will remain a major weakness in our team structure!

Thanks for those stats as it now proves stats are crap. Ben had a very good year in the ruck and more importantly around the ground. A very important player to us in the future because he is good around the ground.

[WinnersOnly]

Plugged once again you have shown you have NFI about the game! Kosi is ok around the ground but that does make him a valuable ruckman? That is the GT outlook - we may have well lose every clearance and play Blake.

[plugger66]

Plugged once again you have shown you have NFI about the game! Kosi is ok around the ground but that does make him a valuable ruckman? That is the GT outlook - we may have well lose every clearance and play Blake.

Well the way you see footy is just get a guy 8 foot tall and teach him to palm to us. Doesnt matter that the oppostion usually have the skills to read the play or the ruckman doesnt touch it around the ground. I may have NFI as you call it but we just can read some of your posts to prove your ideas on footy. Now stop with the comedy and start learning about the game of footy. That is what we are here for.

The funniest part of your post is comparing Kosi's ruck work to Ben. Pure gold.

[Spinner]

Am I being too wistful to say that it's just him out there that makes the difference?

I agree its time for someone else to stand up, but I'd say it's more in the heart and soul spiritual leader type of capacity....

Nobody even close to Lenny in that regard.

With all respect... I believe that is just crap IMHO.

[DWOODROW]

Can I ask for a stat.

Out of the games Armo has played, how many have been started or games played as a general midfielder.

To me a midfielder is someone who starts in the centre bounce, not wing or HFF. Many believe he needs to step up but don't you at least have to be playing in the midfield to do this. Before I get bagged from the rabble I am being genuine and not having a shot at anyone. Just don't see how he can be included in stats when he played 6 games in the middle last year and is included in the players that need to step up or he is a dud.

I have no doubt that this year he will be playing more of a midfield role with Lenny needing to be eased into it and more players need to help out more but surely you can ONLY do this if you are playing MIDFIELD and not HFF aka Lyons defensive forward.

The elite clearance players are midfielders with the exception of some but please feel free to show me a genuine HFF flank who wins the clearance stats in a game playing at HFF and not being allowed to go back into defence because that is not the role.

I'm actually looking forward to the responses.

[SainterK]

Am I being too wistful to say that it's just him out there that makes the difference?

I agree its time for someone else to stand up, but I'd say it's more in the heart and soul spiritual leader type of capacity....

Nobody even close to Lenny in that regard.

With all respect... I believe that is just crap IMHO.

Meh, call me a romantic...

Inside mids, you can find them, not like there is a world shortage.

Guys that just lift their sides, much harder.

[Spinner]

Am I being too wistful to say that it's just him out there that makes the difference?

I agree its time for someone else to stand up, but I'd say it's more in the heart and soul spiritual leader type of capacity....

Nobody even close to Lenny in that regard.

With all respect... I believe that is just crap IMHO.

Meh, call me a romantic...

Inside mids, you can find them, not like there is a world shortage.

Guys that just lift their sides, much harder.

Yeah disagree. Players like Lenny lift their side because of their output... Not their name. Lots would probably disagree but it's their output that made them brilliant.. Not their name. Effort is always important... But average players give a lot of effort.. They are just not stars.

[Spinner]

Can I ask for a stat.

Out of the games Armo has played, how many have been started or games played as a general midfielder.

To me a midfielder is someone who starts in the centre bounce, not wing or HFF. Many believe he needs to step up but don't you at least have to be playing in the midfield to do this. Before I get bagged from the rabble I am being genuine and not having a shot at anyone. Just don't see how he can be included in stats when he played 6 games in the middle last year and is included in the players that need to step up or he is a dud.

I have no doubt that this year he will be playing more of a midfield role with Lenny needing to be eased into it and more players need to help out more but surely you can ONLY do this if you are playing MIDFIELD and not HFF aka Lyons defensive forward.

The elite clearance players are midfielders with the exception of some but please feel free to show me a genuine HFF flank who wins the clearance stats in a game playing at HFF and not being allowed to go back into defence because that is not the role.

I'm actually looking forward to the responses.

Understand that the defensive midfielder is a unique position... But midfielders are not only restricted to center bounce players.

That would limit the team to three midfielders. If Lenny, Dal Santo and Jones start... What does that make Montagna and Goddard and Steven ect.

Wings are mids and some HHF/HBF.

[samoht]

An interesting stat to observe is that Collingwood has averaged 2.2 less hitouts per game than St Kilda has (32.6 to 34.8) yet they average 40.8 clearances to our 35.5 !

So Collingwood gets an impressive 40.8 clearances from a paltry 32.6 hit outs ! - obviously their midfielders are good at sharking/reading the opposition's hitouts !

Ruckmen schmuckmen.

[Spinner]

An interesting stat to observe is that Collingwood has averaged 2.2 less hitouts per game than St Kilda has (32.6 to 34.8) yet they average 40.8 clearances to our 35.5 !

So Collingwood gets an impressive 40.8 clearances from a paltry 32.6 hit outs ! - obviously their midfielders are good at sharking/reading the opposition's hitouts !

Ruckmen schmuckmen.

Ruckmen are the most important position on the team IMO.

Their impact has the most effect on a team for a single position. Get thumped and it's disastrous. Dominate and it's awesome.


Clearance stats mean nothing. It's the quality of clearance that's important. Anyone can sharks a quick snap of the pack. Not everyone can run the ball out of a stoppage.

[samoht]

Spinner .. the ruckmen that you're referring to that can make a difference are a mere handful maybe 5 tops in the whole league out of about 50 or so (assuming there are 2 -3/team)... the rest, the 45/50 or 90% of them are just schmuckmen that negate each other.

and ..the impact that you're talking about can only come about if you have an exceptional tap ruckman (there may be as I said 5 tops in the AFL, probably less) combined with a top class midfield that reads the ball and are adept at clearances.

There's Sandilands, Mumford and another 3 maybe tops but none come to mind immediately ... McEvoy and a pinch hitter is okay vs the other 90%.

Geelong and Collingwood did not have an exceptional output from their rucks this year .. but they were the exceptional teams nevertheless.

We need quick medium sized forwards first and foremost - our forward line is the big weakness !!! .. I'm happy with McEvoy (and a pinch hitter).

[Spinner]

Spinner .. the ruckmen that you're referring to that can make a difference are a mere handful maybe 5 tops in the whole league out of about 50 or so (assuming there are 2 -3/team)... the rest, the 45/50 or 90% of them are just schmuckmen that negate each other.

and ..the impact that you're talking about can only come about if you have an exceptional tap ruckman (there may be as I said 5 tops in the AFL, probably less) combined with a top class midfield that reads the ball and are adept at clearances.

There's Sandilands, Mumford and another 3 maybe tops but none come to mind immediately ... McEvoy and a pinch hitter is okay vs the other 90%.

Geelong and Collingwood did not have an exceptional output from their rucks this year .. but they were the exceptional teams nevertheless.

We need quick medium sized forwards first and foremost - our forward line is the big weakness !!! .. I'm happy with McEvoy (and a pinch hitter).

I'm more than happy with McEvoy. He is developing superbly.

With the 5 or so point. That is the situation with every position. 5 superb CHF, CHB and so on in the league.. Then competitors. Then the rest.

[WinnersOnly]

Spinner .. the ruckmen that you're referring to that can make a difference are a mere handful maybe 5 tops in the whole league out of about 50 or so (assuming there are 2 -3/team)... the rest, the 45/50 or 90% of them are just schmuckmen that negate each other.

and ..the impact that you're talking about can only come about if you have an exceptional tap ruckman (there may be as I said 5 tops in the AFL, probably less) combined with a top class midfield that reads the ball and are adept at clearances.

There's Sandilands, Mumford and another 3 maybe tops but none come to mind immediately ... McEvoy and a pinch hitter is okay vs the other 90%.

Geelong and Collingwood did not have an exceptional output from their rucks this year .. but they were the exceptional teams nevertheless.

We need quick medium sized forwards first and foremost - our forward line is the big weakness !!! .. I'm happy with McEvoy (and a pinch hitter).

My point is we have never given ourselves a chance to draft a dominant ruckman, because we simply havent selected any! McEvoy will never become a dominant ruckman because he has no leap and thats not something you can train for.

OH and LEVER will become the next the James WALL or Blake McGrath! ! He is not a ruckman and doesn't have the frame to play AFL and never will - a poor selection in my opinion! Mark my words he will spend 5 years on the list going no where after having two knee reco's. Drafting ruckman is a skill the club has never been able to master - they dont seem to have recovered from the Spider era!

[plugger66]

Spinner .. the ruckmen that you're referring to that can make a difference are a mere handful maybe 5 tops in the whole league out of about 50 or so (assuming there are 2 -3/team)... the rest, the 45/50 or 90% of them are just schmuckmen that negate each other.

and ..the impact that you're talking about can only come about if you have an exceptional tap ruckman (there may be as I said 5 tops in the AFL, probably less) combined with a top class midfield that reads the ball and are adept at clearances.

There's Sandilands, Mumford and another 3 maybe tops but none come to mind immediately ... McEvoy and a pinch hitter is okay vs the other 90%.

Geelong and Collingwood did not have an exceptional output from their rucks this year .. but they were the exceptional teams nevertheless.

We need quick medium sized forwards first and foremost - our forward line is the big weakness !!! .. I'm happy with McEvoy (and a pinch hitter).

My point is we have never given ourselves a chance to draft a dominant ruckman, because we simply havent selected any! McEvoy will never become a dominant ruckman because he has no leap and thats not something you can train for.

OH and LEVER will become the next the James WALL or Blake McGrath! ! He is not a ruckman and doesn't have the frame to play AFL and never will - a poor selection in my opinion! Mark my words he will spend 5 years on the list going no where after having two knee reco's. Drafting ruckman is a skill the club has never been able to master - they dont seem to have recovered from the Spider era!

And how do you magically get a top ruckman with later picks. It is just about a complete raffle. Luckily our club realised Ben was going to be a very good ruckman and used our first pick on him.

[WinnersOnly]

Other clubs seem to have mastered the enterpirse - North = Goldstein, Geelong/Sydney = Mumford, WCE = Cox. They are out there the club just doesn't have the capacity or the want to find them !

[plugger66]

Other clubs seem to have mastered the enterpirse - North = Goldstein, Geelong/Sydney = Mumford, WCE = Cox. They are out there the club just doesn't have the capacity or the want to find them !

That is complete rubbish. Anyway there would be people who follow other clubs who would say we have a good one in Ben.

[Dr Spaceman]

OH and LEVER will become the next the James WALL or Blake McGrath! ! He is not a ruckman and doesn't have the frame to play AFL and never will - a poor selection in my opinion! Mark my words he will spend 5 years on the list going no where after having two knee reco's

Extremely harsh and negative appraisal of a young kid who was picked up late in the Draft and has been at the club for about 5 mins.

And considering he's spent most of his junior career not playing as a ruckman, do you have any proof that's what we picked him to be?

Or is it just because he's tall?

[WinnersOnly]

Other clubs seem to have mastered the enterpirse - North = Goldstein, Geelong/Sydney = Mumford, WCE = Cox. They are out there the club just doesn't have the capacity or the want to find them !

That is complete rubbish. Anyway there would be people who follow other clubs who would say we have a good one in Ben.

Plugged you are such a learned individual - why does everyone hate you so?

[plugger66]

Other clubs seem to have mastered the enterpirse - North = Goldstein, Geelong/Sydney = Mumford, WCE = Cox. They are out there the club just doesn't have the capacity or the want to find them !

That is complete rubbish. Anyway there would be people who follow other clubs who would say we have a good one in Ben.

Plugged you are such a learned individual - why does everyone hate you so?

Great stuff. They hate an unknown name on a computer. If they do they are the ones with the problem. Obviously you have nothing of sense to add coming up with that crap. Now please learn about our great game and come back when you do. I am sure you will eventually add something to this board.