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citywest wrote:Do we trade for players or do we trade for draft picks?
IMHO, at this stage of our rebuild we should trade for draft picks.
Pick 1 to GWS for pick 4 and 20.
Armo for pick 15 or better.
Gilbo for pick 25 or better.
Joey for pick 30 or better.
Then next year we can reassess.
Reasonable suggestions. I think all three of those players are on the block if we get a good deal. I think we will continue to target some talented, younger players from GWS and look for a combination of picks/players.
Yep, agree with all the above.
Fact is we simply have to infuse the club with a ridiculous amount of high quality youth in the next few years. We've got holes opening up all over the field and our best players are still our oldest.
We simply have to keep bringing in the youngsters and be brutal about it.
Bunk_Moreland wrote:last time pick one was traded, two of the players Hawthorn got were Hodge and Mitchell. Freo got Croad who went back to Hawthorn and won a flag in 2008.
Unless massive overs for us, we should not trade #1
can you imagine what might have happened last year if hodge had been playing for freo and not the hawks.......a premiership flag might have been flying over patterson oval, that's what......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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PJ wrote:Apart from enthusiasts on here and bigfooty I haven't seen it written any where from people involved in recruiting that this draft is weak. Does anyone have any links to where this has been stated?
from what i have read it is even ...with no real stand out talent...not weak....not by a long shot.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
Bunk_Moreland wrote:last time pick one was traded, two of the players Hawthorn got were Hodge and Mitchell. Freo got Croad who went back to Hawthorn and won a flag in 2008.
Unless massive overs for us, we should not trade #1
can you imagine what might have happened last year if hodge had been playing for freo and not the hawks.......a premiership flag might have been flying over patterson oval, that's what......
If If If. Maybe Hodge became the man and player he is partly because of Clarkson's influence in the last 10 years.
Anyway I hope we import the Hawks goal kicking and kicking drills!
Yes Con............. who knows who influenced and settled Hodge down. Remember early in his career, he was in trouble with the Hawks because of a couple of indiscretions (can't recall what they were), think it was just a young lad partying a bit hard or whatever, whereas Ball & Judd were the model citizens and seemingly the better players in their early days at Saints & W.Coast
Who knows what settled Hodge down? Was it his early marriage (often settles a young turk) , was it his coach or some other mentor at the club? All I can see now with Hodge is a very good footballer, an excellent leader and a young man who appears to be a good family man and solid citizen.
No use being hindsight harrys (aka Big Mart)............... I think we picked the least influential player of the three.......... but what the heck < shrug of shoulders >
Like you Con, I hope we can import the Hawks goal kicking & kicking drills!
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? .
Not a good example for you.
1/ As it was stated prior that it was a super draft, and super draft it was.
2/ Judd should have been taken by the Saints at 2, but we tried to be too cute thinking that WC would not pick him due to his shoulders, and thus we would get Ball and Judd.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? .
Not a good example for you.
1/ As it was stated prior that it was a super draft, and super draft it was.
2/ Judd should have been taken by the Saints at 2, but we tried to be too cute thinking that WC would not pick him due to his shoulders, and thus we would get Ball and Judd.
Weak draft often just means there are not huge amounts of talent behind the main group. I think it's fair to say it was touted as a tall player heavy draft. Players like Goddard, Wright, Durdin and Mc Cartin didn't quite come on as expected during the TAC season or carnivals. Petracca who was an undersized KPF reinvented himself as a mid and blitzed. He rightly has stormed into contention as the number one pick and would be hard to look past. There are some potential good players that should go in between 8 and 20 like Ahern, Laverede, and De Goey. Hopefully that second pick is almost going to be as exciting as last year as there is a very strong pool of guys in that range. Someone will get some bargains with in those picks or just after.
There is still going to be quality up to about pick 25 to 30 by looks of it but then there is a pretty steep drop off. You never know there might still be a Sam Fisher or Chris Grant hiding out there late but it's getting less likely now there are recording devices on every phone and people can send footage in seconds. Scouts can contact recruiters with evidence of great players hiding away.
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
So why are we giving them the pick then? My god you are confusing.
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
So why are we giving them the pick then? My god you are confusing.
Because whether we have pick 1 or pick 4 will most likely not make any difference. Then we will have the added bonus of having their pick 20 as well where we could pick up another Dunstan.
citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
So why are we giving them the pick then? My god you are confusing.
Because whether we have pick 1 or pick 4 will most likely not make any difference. Then we will have the added bonus of having their pick 20 as well where we could pick up another Dunstan.
The 3 you names were top 3 picks. I suppose we could have got Fiora earlier than we did. Its like working with cows mums.
I'm yet to read a post from city West that proves that this poster has the best interests of our club at heart. I don't understand why some people think that getting 4 and 20 for first pick is even worth discussion.
If you trade pick 1 for anything, it's for a proven gun that is nailed on to play 250-300 games for us. Anything else and we are getting shortchanged.
The rest I could stomach, but just about. Trading first pick for many picks is so dumb that I'm scared we'll actually do it.
Just My Opinion
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citywest wrote:Let me enlighten a few people on here. Statements like "It's a weak draft" "It's a shallow draft" "It's a strong draft" "It's an even draft" all this is crap. The true worth of all drafts are not confirmed until at least 5 years later (and sometimes even longer). Those statements are perceived value. Most on here say get Petracca because he is the best young talent in the land. It will be 5 years before we find out if he truly was the best of the 2014 Draft. Just have a look at Hodge, Ball and Judd. In the end, was Hodge better than Ball, and was Ball better than Judd? The draft is not an exact science so when you are on the bottom the only thing you can improve (should try and improve) with certainty is your draft picks. Then it is a matter of backing in your recruiting staff.
It is for this reason that if GWS want pick 1 then they can have it as long as they give us pick 4 and pick 20 in return.
What do you think Essendon should do with Pick 19?
<warning for baiting>
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
saintspremiers wrote:Shmuck from afl.com.au reckons our dream trade would be Pick 1 to GWS for pick 3 and 20 and Jacksch.
I'd be happy with that, is it realistic though???
Nearly the same as CW suggests because 3 will likely become 4 and what has Jacksch done yet? Downgrading one of the picks to 20 is plainly stupid IMO. Id rather a Melbourne type deal. Get a very good player and still get a top 10 pick.
whiskers3614 wrote:No more one dimensional small forward types.
No more Dennis Lanes Mileras or Saads.
Just have a look at recent GF's and the litany of failures by:
-Leon Davis
-Ballantyne
-Milne
_Jetta yesterday
We need fair dinkum midfielders and goalkickers will emerge from them.
Yep those days are over for those types in big games. Footy will change where they are valuable again but it could be a while.
Firstly, it is a long time since Jetta has played a small forward role with Sydney, plays mainly off the wing
Secondly would agree not to chase a small forward, but give me a break that there is no place for them
Chad Wingard would almost get a game with us, as would Lewis Taylor, Michael Walters etc etc.
They still have a place in finals footy but need some big bodies playing well along side them
" A few will never give up on you. When you go back out on the field, those are the people I want in your minds. Those are the people I want in your hearts."
whiskers3614 wrote:No more one dimensional small forward types.
No more Dennis Lanes Mileras or Saads.
Just have a look at recent GF's and the litany of failures by:
-Leon Davis
-Ballantyne
-Milne
_Jetta yesterday
We need fair dinkum midfielders and goalkickers will emerge from them.
Yep those days are over for those types in big games. Footy will change where they are valuable again but it could be a while.
Firstly, it is a long time since Jetta has played a small forward role with Sydney, plays mainly off the wing
Secondly would agree not to chase a small forward, but give me a break that there is no place for them
Chad Wingard would almost get a game with us, as would Lewis Taylor, Michael Walters etc etc.
They still have a place in finals footy but need some big bodies playing well along side them
They would all get games with any side but do they preform in finals when there is so much pressure. It seems not very often.
saintspremiers wrote:Shmuck from afl.com.au reckons our dream trade would be Pick 1 to GWS for pick 3 and 20 and Jacksch.
I'd be happy with that, is it realistic though???
no...because gws won't have pick 3 for starters...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
borderbarry wrote:I did not think Cyril had a good game in the GF. Overshadowed by young Hill, and Cyril was probably not match conditioned.
I noticed a great quote from Hodge on the day before the game. He really tried the psyche out. He said all the players love having Cyril in the side because they know from experience in their own match pratice then even when Cyril doesnt get the ball he makes the backs panic when they have the ball cos you always have it in the back of your mind 'where is cyril?' because he sometimes comes from out of nowhere and tackles you. He said - 'so if we worry about him - we know the swans will worry about him too.'
To be honest it is this 'panic' factor that we lacked in our fwd line when had a good side. Even when we were good - opposition sides would clear it from our fwd line with relative ease. It was really our awesome defence in those years that continually saved our bacon from frequent attacks.
