Winmar 56% Riewoldt 44%

[SaintPav]

My favourites are usually the best. The day someone tells me they had more fun watching Winmar play when plugger played is the day I will listen. Anyway who cares.

Unfortunately usually only at Moorabbin and not always against the best teams...It was a new era for us though.

[remboy]

You are speaking through your hat. How often are current players called 'best ever' or teams called 'best ever'. That is the long running joke. Petracca is apparently the 'best in a generation' without having played a game. This already makes him better than Judd, Ricciuto and Ablett.

Lions 3 peat - best team ever
Carlton 95 - Best team ever
Bombers 2000 - best team ever
Cats - 3 peat - best team ever
Hawks 2 peat - best team ever.

Thats 5 'best ever' just in the last 20 years.

Good point. I get annoyed at how many 'champions' we have in the AFL these days. Commentators refer to anyone who has played a couple of good seasons as a champion.

[Life Long Saint]

The result of this poll shows exactly why our club failed for so long.
We forget and forgive too easily the sins of the past.

One player has one five B&F's in our second most successful era and has shown tremendous loyalty...

The other, as brilliant and dynamic as he was, walked out on the club the day after a famous game at Vic Park. He was away for four weeks and that totally derailed our 1993 season and contributed to Ken Sheldon losing his job.

If Nicky was a Hawthorn player and pulled a stunt like that he would have been told to not bother coming back. It was symptomatic of the tail wagging the dog back then.

Aussies...We love a villain. We idolise a cop killing bush ranger and nearly made a National Anthem out of a sheep stealing tramp that committed suicide.

[kosifantutti]

The result of this poll shows exactly why our club failed for so long.
We forget and forgive too easily the sins of the past.

.....

If Nicky was a Hawthorn player and pulled a stunt like that he would have been told to not bother coming back. It was symptomatic of the tail wagging the dog back then.

...

I don't think Saints fans are any different to anyone else. How do you think Dipper would go against Michael Tuck in a popularity contest?

Or Darren Millane against Gavin Brown?

[Con Gorozidis]

The result of this poll shows exactly why our club failed for so long.
We forget and forgive too easily the sins of the past.

One player has one five B&F's in our second most successful era and has shown tremendous loyalty...

The other, as brilliant and dynamic as he was, walked out on the club the day after a famous game at Vic Park. He was away for four weeks and that totally derailed our 1993 season and contributed to Ken Sheldon losing his job.

If Nicky was a Hawthorn player and pulled a stunt like that he would have been told to not bother coming back. It was symptomatic of the tail wagging the dog back then.

Aussies...We love a villain. We idolise a cop killing bush ranger and nearly made a National Anthem out of a sheep stealing tramp that committed suicide.

Nicky was no villain.
Roo's loyalty has been matched with tremendously generous rates of pay that will make him wealthy for life. He was wealthy at age 25.
Nicky was paid peanuts for a decade.

Calling him a villain and comparing him Ned Kelly. Well I wont respond to that. But you speak for yourself. He wasnt just 'brilliant' he was also a hard worker and probably got shat on by the muppets running our club back then. You need to take into account the times and how hard it would have been for a bloke like Nicky coming over from WA and still go out there week in week out and play in mud heaps and get belted and racially abused from over the fence and from other players - probably when he went down the shops as well.

The reasons for our clubs failings are many. But none of them exist in N Winmar.

If people think Roo is their favourite - thats great - but I dont see why you have to denigrate or bag a bloke like NIcky at the same time. Totally unnecessary and just not on in my books.

[Life Long Saint]

The result of this poll shows exactly why our club failed for so long.
We forget and forgive too easily the sins of the past.

.....

If Nicky was a Hawthorn player and pulled a stunt like that he would have been told to not bother coming back. It was symptomatic of the tail wagging the dog back then.

...

I don't think Saints fans are any different to anyone else. How do you think Dipper would go against Michael Tuck in a popularity contest?

Or Darren Millane against Gavin Brown?

I don't recall either Dipper or Millane doing what Winmar did.
Apples with apples, please.

To answer the question, though...I reckon they'd both do quite well and rightly so. Both were loyal as the day is long and neither held their club hostage by staging a strike over money.
Dipper's only fault were his stray elbows. He wasn't abundantly talented and he, no doubt, would have endured terrible racist remarks when he was playing...
Both he and Millane played through injury and adversity to help their teams win flags.

[Life Long Saint]

Nicky was no villain.

That really depends on your definition of villain. He was tremendously skilled but he had certainly had some off-field issues.

Roo's loyalty has been matched with tremendously generous rates of pay that will make him wealthy for life. He was wealthy at age 25.
Nicky was paid peanuts for a decade.

Footballers were not professional then and comparing his financial situation to a modern day player is folly.
Nicky wouldn't have been too different to many players in that era. I don't recall any others taking Winmar's course of action. Look, I'm sure his "manager" would have a bit to do with his actions. But I can't condone or excuse what he did...And, frankly, I'm surprised that many can.

Calling him a villain and comparing him Ned Kelly. Well I wont respond to that. But you speak for yourself. He wasnt just 'brilliant' he was also a hard worker and probably got shat on by the muppets running our club back then. You need to take into account the times and how hard it would have been for a bloke like Nicky coming over from WA and still go out there week in week out and play in mud heaps and get belted and racially abused from over the fence and from other players - probably when he went down the shops as well.

I didn't compare Winmar to Ned Kelly, I used the bush ranger to highlight our nation's love of a bad boy.
Many Aboriginal players came to Melbourne in that time and earlier...and did not do what Winmar did. Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long...they would have all endured what Winmar did (maybe not the beltings but quite possibly worse comments on field) but Winmar played in a side that made the finals two years running and was clearly on the rise again in 1993...
I'd forgive a hot-headed spur of the moment action or comment and I forgive is suspensions. In fact I don't care about those. They didn't happen too often and were probably warranted...But his actions in 1993 were calculated and devastating to our season. They were not the actions of a person who puts the team first.

If people think Roo is their favourite - thats great - but I dont see why you have to denigrate or bag a bloke like NIcky at the same time. Totally unnecessary and just not on in my books.

On the football field there were fewer more skilled than Winmar...Clearly one of the best to play for the club and his inclusion in the Team of the Century backs that up.
But in terms of players that should be favourites in a club who's motto is "Strength Through Loyalty", it's hard to go past Lenny, Harves and Roo...

[saintspremiers]

The result of this poll shows exactly why our club failed for so long.
We forget and forgive too easily the sins of the past.

.....

If Nicky was a Hawthorn player and pulled a stunt like that he would have been told to not bother coming back. It was symptomatic of the tail wagging the dog back then.

...

I don't think Saints fans are any different to anyone else. How do you think Dipper would go against Michael Tuck in a popularity contest?

Or Darren Millane against Gavin Brown?

I don't recall either Dipper or Millane doing what Winmar did.
Apples with apples, please.

To answer the question, though...I reckon they'd both do quite well and rightly so. Both were loyal as the day is long and neither held their club hostage by staging a strike over money.
Dipper's only fault were his stray elbows. He wasn't abundantly talented and he, no doubt, would have endured terrible racist remarks when he was playing...
Both he and Millane played through injury and adversity to help their teams win flags.

Question, was Cuz paid below market rates because of his colour?

Wouldn't happen now but he played in a different era.

And yes Aussies love Aussie villians, but despise imported ones

[asaint]

Shat on by the club? Didn't they set up a trust fund for his kids?

[Life Long Saint]

Question, was Cuz paid below market rates because of his colour?

Would not have thought so...I don't recall other Aboriginal players complaining about it.

[Con Gorozidis]

Nicky was no villain.

That really depends on your definition of villain. He was tremendously skilled but he had certainly had some off-field issues.

Roo's loyalty has been matched with tremendously generous rates of pay that will make him wealthy for life. He was wealthy at age 25.
Nicky was paid peanuts for a decade.

Footballers were not professional then and comparing his financial situation to a modern day player is folly.
Nicky wouldn't have been too different to many players in that era. I don't recall any others taking Winmar's course of action. Look, I'm sure his "manager" would have a bit to do with his actions. But I can't condone or excuse what he did...And, frankly, I'm surprised that many can.

Calling him a villain and comparing him Ned Kelly. Well I wont respond to that. But you speak for yourself. He wasnt just 'brilliant' he was also a hard worker and probably got shat on by the muppets running our club back then. You need to take into account the times and how hard it would have been for a bloke like Nicky coming over from WA and still go out there week in week out and play in mud heaps and get belted and racially abused from over the fence and from other players - probably when he went down the shops as well.

I didn't compare Winmar to Ned Kelly, I used the bush ranger to highlight our nation's love of a bad boy.
Many Aboriginal players came to Melbourne in that time and earlier...and did not do what Winmar did. Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long...they would have all endured what Winmar did (maybe not the beltings but quite possibly worse comments on field) but Winmar played in a side that made the finals two years running and was clearly on the rise again in 1993...
I'd forgive a hot-headed spur of the moment action or comment and I forgive is suspensions. In fact I don't care about those. They didn't happen too often and were probably warranted...But his actions in 1993 were calculated and devastating to our season. They were not the actions of a person who puts the team first.

If people think Roo is their favourite - thats great - but I dont see why you have to denigrate or bag a bloke like NIcky at the same time. Totally unnecessary and just not on in my books.

On the football field there were fewer more skilled than Winmar...Clearly one of the best to play for the club and his inclusion in the Team of the Century backs that up.
But in terms of players that should be favourites in a club who's motto is "Strength Through Loyalty", it's hard to go past Lenny, Harves and Roo...

Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long - thats 3 whole players over 4 decades. Hardly 'many'.
And thanks for telling people who their favourite should be. Not conceited at all.
And how is the wage differential a folly? Plyares now get multiples of players then as a % of average wages.
Roo would get multiples of Winmar - even in real adjusted terms. This isnt folly - it is fact.
Add to that - for you to dismiss the hadrships faced by Winmar with some spurious comparison with 3 indigenous players (you could only name 3 across 40 years) is just ridiculous.
Not half conceited.

[plugger66]

Nicky was no villain.

That really depends on your definition of villain. He was tremendously skilled but he had certainly had some off-field issues.

Roo's loyalty has been matched with tremendously generous rates of pay that will make him wealthy for life. He was wealthy at age 25.
Nicky was paid peanuts for a decade.

Footballers were not professional then and comparing his financial situation to a modern day player is folly.
Nicky wouldn't have been too different to many players in that era. I don't recall any others taking Winmar's course of action. Look, I'm sure his "manager" would have a bit to do with his actions. But I can't condone or excuse what he did...And, frankly, I'm surprised that many can.

Calling him a villain and comparing him Ned Kelly. Well I wont respond to that. But you speak for yourself. He wasnt just 'brilliant' he was also a hard worker and probably got shat on by the muppets running our club back then. You need to take into account the times and how hard it would have been for a bloke like Nicky coming over from WA and still go out there week in week out and play in mud heaps and get belted and racially abused from over the fence and from other players - probably when he went down the shops as well.

I didn't compare Winmar to Ned Kelly, I used the bush ranger to highlight our nation's love of a bad boy.
Many Aboriginal players came to Melbourne in that time and earlier...and did not do what Winmar did. Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long...they would have all endured what Winmar did (maybe not the beltings but quite possibly worse comments on field) but Winmar played in a side that made the finals two years running and was clearly on the rise again in 1993...
I'd forgive a hot-headed spur of the moment action or comment and I forgive is suspensions. In fact I don't care about those. They didn't happen too often and were probably warranted...But his actions in 1993 were calculated and devastating to our season. They were not the actions of a person who puts the team first.

If people think Roo is their favourite - thats great - but I dont see why you have to denigrate or bag a bloke like NIcky at the same time. Totally unnecessary and just not on in my books.

On the football field there were fewer more skilled than Winmar...Clearly one of the best to play for the club and his inclusion in the Team of the Century backs that up.
But in terms of players that should be favourites in a club who's motto is "Strength Through Loyalty", it's hard to go past Lenny, Harves and Roo...

Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long - thats 3 whole players over 4 decades. Hardly 'many'.
And thanks for telling people who their favourite should be. Not conceited at all.
And how is the wage differential a folly? Plyares now get multiples of players then as a % of average wages.
Roo would get multiples of Winmar - even in real adjusted terms. This isnt folly - it is fact.
Add to that - for you to dismiss the hadrships faced by Winmar with some spurious comparison with 3 indigenous players (you could only name 3 across 40 years) is just ridiculous.
Not half conceited.

I think your memory is failing you a bit Con. Winmar may not have got a huge salary early on but after the pies game he went on strike and caused a lot of crap for our club. He would have been the third or fourth highest paid player at the club and that seems about right to me. Rooy gets much more than Winmar even in todays money because he is our best player and because he is a CHF. Winmar was looked after by our club as best as they could back in that era. He would have been better looked after now just as every player was.

[Jacks Back]

As I write this Rooey is on 35 votes v Elvis on 32. Does that mean there will be a challenge for the final against Banger?

[Con Gorozidis]

Can you change the topic heading editor?

Winmar 49% Riewoldt 51%

[kosifantutti]

They all ran for 24ish hours. The final result was on page one.

As they say on those reality shows: "Do not call after voting has closed, you're vote won't count but you may still be charged."

[Life Long Saint]

Polly Farmer, Maurice Rioli, Michael Long - thats 3 whole players over 4 decades. Hardly 'many'.
And thanks for telling people who their favourite should be. Not conceited at all.
And how is the wage differential a folly? Plyares now get multiples of players then as a % of average wages.
Roo would get multiples of Winmar - even in real adjusted terms. This isnt folly - it is fact.
Add to that - for you to dismiss the hadrships faced by Winmar with some spurious comparison with 3 indigenous players (you could only name 3 across 40 years) is just ridiculous.
Not half conceited.

To answer your points...
3 players without any research. If it matters so much to you I can do some more but you will never convince me that Winmar's actions in 1993 were, in any way, justifiable.
Thanks for getting personal. I'd appreciate it if you argued the topic and not your amateur psychoanalysis of me.
p66 covered the wage aspect quite well...I have nothing to add to that.
Again...That was 3 players without any research. Again...If it matters so much to you I can do some more but you will never convince me that Winmar's actions in 1993 were, in any way, justifiable.
Again...Thanks for getting personal. I'd appreciate it if you argued the topic and not your amateur psychoanalysis of me.

This football club for too long suffered the cult of individual. Essendon are doing it now with James Hird with awful ramifications.
We loved the "flawed genuis" and put up with off-field actions that did more harm than good.
I loved watching Tony Lockett play. It's hard to argue against the view that he was our greatest ever player. But what does it say that two years after trading him our team played in a grand final?

As I mentioned earlier other, more successful clubs would not have put up with the off-field antics that our players did...and we don't now.

[Megamaguire]

Very hard for me to pick one over the other as I believe both made enormous contributions to our club (on the field one still is of coarse).
Nicky Winmar was a genuine excitement machine and was the player that swung it for me in becoming a Saints Fan.
I even remember every now and again hearing some of the supporters singing a song in his honour... 'Nicky Winmar walks on water' etc etc.

Also feeling very fortunate that Rooey landed at our club has me rating the Riewoldt contribution very high indeed. I can't recall witnessing such a regular and sustained workload week in week out as there has been from Rooey. I could say more about each but like both too much to pick one over the other.
Result? Photo Finish.