Training Today

[Bunk_Moreland]

No what im saying is if we match the offer and he still wants to go then you have to trade him. You cant do it under FA because we have matched the offer. And if he was traded I doubt he is worth pick 2. As I have said though we must try and keep no matter what we may get in return. And my best mate boarded a few players and he lives about 2 minutes away so I saw them a hell of a lot.

P66, couldn't he leave under DFA and we get absolutely nothing for him?

Players don't have to stay anymore with DFA.

So if (big if) Steven really wants out (like Griffin for example) we have a number of options

1) FA and get a good compo pick
2) Trade and get a lesser compo pick but maybe another player or a combo
3)He goes to DFA and we get SFA

Does that sound correct?

Another question. If Steven gets a FA offer and we match, is he bound to take our matched offer? Can the offer from the other club be extended and can we keep matching?

Don't know the FA rules very well.

[plugger66]

No what im saying is if we match the offer and he still wants to go then you have to trade him. You cant do it under FA because we have matched the offer. And if he was traded I doubt he is worth pick 2. As I have said though we must try and keep no matter what we may get in return. And my best mate boarded a few players and he lives about 2 minutes away so I saw them a hell of a lot.

P66, couldn't he leave under DFA and we get absolutely nothing for him?

Players don't have to stay anymore with DFA.

So if (big if) Steven really wants out (like Griffin for example) we have a number of options

1) FA and get a good compo pick
2) Trade and get a lesser compo pick but maybe another player or a combo
3)He goes to DFA and we get SFA

Does that sound correct?

Another question. If Steven gets a FA offer and we match, is he bound to take our matched offer? Can the offer from the other club be extended and can we keep matching?

Don't know the FA rules very well.

Don't get the DFA at all but surely no one would do that to a club especially as the new club doesn't pay under FA anyway. I know players have left under DFA but none of them would have got compensation anyway. With FA once we match the offer once that's the end of it. He can then only leave if traded.

[gringo]

I tend to agree. We cant be in a constant state of rebuild. Sure we may get another top 5 pick if jack leaves but he and Armo (and Gears) are about the only ones left from the Lyon era, wee have put years into him and he is getting to the time of his career where he can lead the midfield.

The pick we get for jack may ensure a top quality kid, but there is another two years we have to wait.

We just cant keep bleeding experienced mids, Lenny, bj, dal, all gone, joey, then jack and armo, then the kids.

I firmly believe teams are built around midfields. Our mids are inexperienced, great potential, but young. No point having a McCartin, White, Lee, and Membrey if the ball never goes forward.

We really require Steven to stay a Saint in my opinion.

Agree. Cornerstone of the next generation of players and our mids are young. Gringo, how do you Geelong have Dangerfield? Money talks. We're at least in a position to have a very good shot at him come end of the year.

I have been listening to SEN and a few times Geelong have said they are going after him and he also said he doubts that the Crows supporters will mind if he wants to leave to go to Geelong. That puts them well in the box seat. I would say they have been working on him for years and he has decided to sign on. Crows know too as the didn't put him up for captain despite being the obvious candidate. Pretty much all but done IMO.

[gringo]

No what im saying is if we match the offer and he still wants to go then you have to trade him. You cant do it under FA because we have matched the offer. And if he was traded I doubt he is worth pick 2. As I have said though we must try and keep no matter what we may get in return. And my best mate boarded a few players and he lives about 2 minutes away so I saw them a hell of a lot.

P66, couldn't he leave under DFA and we get absolutely nothing for him?

Players don't have to stay anymore with DFA.

So if (big if) Steven really wants out (like Griffin for example) we have a number of options

1) FA and get a good compo pick
2) Trade and get a lesser compo pick but maybe another player or a combo
3)He goes to DFA and we get SFA

Does that sound correct?

Another question. If Steven gets a FA offer and we match, is he bound to take our matched offer? Can the offer from the other club be extended and can we keep matching?

Don't know the FA rules very well.

Currently he is a restricted free agent which means we can offer to match what ever anyone else offers as far as I know. They don't then have a bidding system either I believe, you have clubs make offers then we get a deadline to match it/ them. If he waits another couple of years he can choose where to go and we would still receive compo that is based on his age, votes and a whole lot of criteria. I doubt the negotiations would be that confused that he would quit the club. He would let the club know he wants out and they would be forced to take up the free agency compo and get on with it. I still think it's extremely unlikely that he'd leave anyway.

[matrix]

danger to crows
sloane to saints

[plugger66]

danger to crows
sloane to saints

Im doubting Dangerfield will stay though. I think Sloane will though. Is Sloane a FA at the end of the year?

[matrix]

opps
danger to cats
dunno plugger
all i know is that he is out of contract after this season
and a certain ex saint has been in his ear

then on the other hand his parents have moved to sa his girl is in sa and they like sa

but that doesnt really mean anything does it in this day an age
i have a feeling we will be chasing a big name come next draft time
he is one of the names i reckon thats on the list
would be fantastic to get him
saints supporter as a kid
goes in hard
great work ethic
never hear of him getting in the s*** outside of footy

would slot in just nicely for our next tilt


danger is gawn
i think thats the second worst kept secret after ablett to gc

[bergholt]

P66, couldn't he leave under DFA and we get absolutely nothing for him?

DFA only applies if he wasn't offered a contract. If we offer him a contract and he refuses to sign then it's not DFA, it's more a Luke Ball or Jason Tutt scenario. Eventually we would be required to delist him as uncontracted and then he would have to nominate for the ND or the PSD to get back onto a list. We still get nothing, but it's a little harder for him to get to his preferred club. (In practice it would happen though just like with Ball.)

So your options are right. If he wants to leave then we have to either let him go through FA and get the compo, or trade him and hopefully get a fair price.

[samuraisaint]

Aargh, you guys aren't still going on and on about Steven leaving us are you? Geez, give it a spell, willya.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Aargh, you guys aren't still going on and on about Steven leaving us are you? Geez, give it a spell, willya.

All we are doing is discussing scenarios.

Funny I thought this was a football discussion forum

[plugger66]

Aargh, you guys aren't still going on and on about Steven leaving us are you? Geez, give it a spell, willya.

Its a reasonable thing to discuss unless you know something we don't.

[samuraisaint]

Well, I know he's a very good player, a B&F winner, and should be our next captain - a lot on here actually thought Rhys Stanley was a good player so maybe I do. I certainly haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave, and don't want to start the jungle drums beating.

On the Crows player: If Dangerfield goes to Geelong - and gets more money - without them losing good players like Sydney did to get Franklin - there is something rotten in the great state of Victoria, after all the success that they have had.

[White Winmar]

Until he resigns, we have to consider the possibility that he will leave. We need him desperately. I'm sure the administration will do everything within its power to retain him.

[plugger66]

Well, I know he's a very good player, a B&F winner, and should be our next captain - a lot on here actually thought Rhys Stanley was a good player so maybe I do. I certainly haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave, and don't want to start the jungle drums beating.

On the Crows player: If Dangerfield goes to Geelong - and gets more money - without them losing good players like Sydney did to get Franklin - there is something rotten in the great state of Victoria, after all the success that they have had.

Not sure I have read anything there to suggest we shouldn't discuss his future. And Geelong would have lost plenty on their cap to be able to afford Dangerfield. It seems they didn't go silly on the cap.

[St Ick]

Well, I know he's a very good player, a B&F winner, and should be our next captain - a lot on here actually thought Rhys Stanley was a good player so maybe I do. I certainly haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave, and don't want to start the jungle drums beating.

On the Crows player: If Dangerfield goes to Geelong - and gets more money - without them losing good players like Sydney did to get Franklin - there is something rotten in the great state of Victoria, after all the success that they have had.

Well Rhys could be a good player, at times showed signs a good player shows - but not once showed he was yet a good player. Maybe he will, but is not yet at that level imo.

Geelong have come out and said they want Danger but won't pay him big dollars, I wouldn't guarantee that Danger will get more money at Geelong than at Crows. Geelong lost GAJ, Scarlett, Chappy, Ling and more while Corey, Bartel, Stevie, Kelly aren't getting any younger, they would have plenty of cash free'd up to pay Danger a generous but fair contract. It's pretty well known Geelong players all play for less than they could get on an open market, I wouldn't think it was rotten at all.

As for Steven, he has all of the ability to become an a grade player, but I'd never put Jack and captain in the same sentance, I'd go as far as to say I'd put a dozen or more St Kilda listed players in front of him in a discussion about captaincy. That's no major knock on him, he just isn't captaincy material.

[samuraisaint]

Well, I know he's a very good player, a B&F winner, and should be our next captain - a lot on here actually thought Rhys Stanley was a good player so maybe I do. I certainly haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave, and don't want to start the jungle drums beating.

On the Crows player: If Dangerfield goes to Geelong - and gets more money - without them losing good players like Sydney did to get Franklin - there is something rotten in the great state of Victoria, after all the success that they have had.

Well Rhys could be a good player, at times showed signs a good player shows - but not once showed he was yet a good player. Maybe he will, but is not yet at that level imo.

Geelong have come out and said they want Danger but won't pay him big dollars, I wouldn't guarantee that Danger will get more money at Geelong than at Crows. Geelong lost GAJ, Scarlett, Chappy, Ling and more while Corey, Bartel, Stevie, Kelly aren't getting any younger, they would have plenty of cash free'd up to pay Danger a generous but fair contract. It's pretty well known Geelong players all play for less than they could get on an open market, I wouldn't think it was rotten at all.

As for Steven, he has all of the ability to become an a grade player, but I'd never put Jack and captain in the same sentance, I'd go as far as to say I'd put a dozen or more St Kilda listed players in front of him in a discussion about captaincy. That's no major knock on him, he just isn't captaincy material.

Okay - fair enough - but he has shown a bit - and he is getting into that age where he could become captaincy potential. I think he is our best player in that 24-27 age group at present and think that talk of compensation for him so that we can get another 18 year old is just completely disingenuous, I really do. Lenny was an awesome player, an inspiration, fair and honest in all aspects of life, both on and off-field and a great role model, but he is no 'goody-goody'. I guess you can tell that I really rate Steven, so maybe I am biased.

IMO Dangerfield is gearing up to return to Victoria, but somebody, like Carlton, will offer him massive bucks and that is why I don't think he'll go to Geelong on a pretty basic wage.

[gringo]

Well, I know he's a very good player, a B&F winner, and should be our next captain - a lot on here actually thought Rhys Stanley was a good player so maybe I do. I certainly haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave, and don't want to start the jungle drums beating.

On the Crows player: If Dangerfield goes to Geelong - and gets more money - without them losing good players like Sydney did to get Franklin - there is something rotten in the great state of Victoria, after all the success that they have had.

Well Rhys could be a good player, at times showed signs a good player shows - but not once showed he was yet a good player. Maybe he will, but is not yet at that level imo.

Geelong have come out and said they want Danger but won't pay him big dollars, I wouldn't guarantee that Danger will get more money at Geelong than at Crows. Geelong lost GAJ, Scarlett, Chappy, Ling and more while Corey, Bartel, Stevie, Kelly aren't getting any younger, they would have plenty of cash free'd up to pay Danger a generous but fair contract. It's pretty well known Geelong players all play for less than they could get on an open market, I wouldn't think it was rotten at all.

As for Steven, he has all of the ability to become an a grade player, but I'd never put Jack and captain in the same sentance, I'd go as far as to say I'd put a dozen or more St Kilda listed players in front of him in a discussion about captaincy. That's no major knock on him, he just isn't captaincy material.

Okay - fair enough - but he has shown a bit - and he is getting into that age where he could become captaincy potential. I think he is our best player in that 24-27 age group at present and think that talk of compensation for him so that we can get another 18 year old is just completely disingenuous, I really do. Lenny was an awesome player, an inspiration, fair and honest in all aspects of life, both on and off-field and a great role model, but he is no 'goody-goody'. I guess you can tell that I really rate Steven, so maybe I am biased.

IMO Dangerfield is gearing up to return to Victoria, but somebody, like Carlton, will offer him massive bucks and that is why I don't think he'll go to Geelong on a pretty basic wage.

I agree, I might be conservative but they aren't going to tell you your compensation before you let him go. The AFL might drop the over the top compensation for FA or the formula might rate him a pick after our second pick. You can get too cute and lose a gun for less value. Just because Melbourne got too much for Frawley doesn't guarantee we will get overs. They couldn't give them a priority pick and maybe they thought they were just really awful.

[saintbrat]

there has been suggestion that they may drop any form of compensation....

[samuraisaint]

That's exactly right Gringo - and I saw Melbourne twice last year - once against us and once against Hawthorn - and let me say this; Melbourne are going to struggle bigtime this year having lost Frawley. They will be okay (probably) in a couple of sesons by virtue of their one million high draft picks but it won't be this year - Frawley was their best player by a mile. Footscray are going to go backwards this year too - after all their hard work and recruiting, they lose Griffin the same year that Gia retires, and they trade Higgins. Cooney had to go, but their good players are still a few years experience and body size away from being able to lead the side. Add to that their lose of Callan Ward to GWS and it just adds another season to the rebuilding and development of that side. Trading Dal, Ben, BJ, and Gwilt as well as losing Lynch and Dawson, as well as our retirees, is manageable, but not if the club give away - or let go without a fight - players of the calibre of Steven. It doesn't work.

[gringo]

That's exactly right Gringo - and I saw Melbourne twice last year - once against us and once against Hawthorn - and let me say this; Melbourne are going to struggle bigtime this year having lost Frawley. They will be okay (probably) in a couple of sesons by virtue of their one million high draft picks but it won't be this year - Frawley was their best player by a mile. Footscray are going to go backwards this year too - after all their hard work and recruiting, they lose Griffin the same year that Gia retires, and they trade Higgins. Cooney had to go, but their good players are still a few years experience and body size away from being able to lead the side. Add to that their lose of Callan Ward to GWS and it just adds another season to the rebuilding and development of that side. Trading Dal, Ben, BJ, and Gwilt as well as losing Lynch and Dawson, as well as our retirees, is manageable, but not if the club give away - or let go without a fight - players of the calibre of Steven. It doesn't work.

Especially with the only mid career players being Steven, Armo and Geary after letting go of Stanley. Everyone else we recruited in that period is gone. The rest are at the end or start of their careers. It's the one age group we can't afford to let go.

[stinger]

hugh goddard will be a far better player than rhys...and won't be scared to run on the ground....

[magnifisaint]

hugh goddard will be a far better player than rhys...and won't be scared to run on the ground....

Hopefully will be Hughj for the Saints or is that Hughg?

[dragit]

hugh goddard will be a far better player than rhys...and won't be scared to run on the ground....

Weren't you up in arms about trading Stanley?

You were going to stop giving money to the club yeah?

[saintspremiers]

there has been suggestion that they may drop any form of compensation....

Do you have a link?

Must say makes sense and takes away the compensation chooklotto element that is hard yo fathom sometimes

[Megamaguire]

Hallalj said ...

Went by and had a look today and thought I'd give you some observations.
Markworth: He Trained and he moves really well, got great size and will make the grade I believe if he stays healthy.
McKenzie: Looks the goods, again good size about him moves well and has great closing speed.
Riewoldt: Doing 80 meter sprints along the boundary and looks fit. Man's a machine.
Pierce: Moves really well for his size it will be really interesting to see what happens this year in the Rucks, Hickey number 1 for sure, the relief ruckmen is up for grabs and I'd say he would be leading at this stage.
Acers : Needs to get out of first gear and I have a feeling the coaches know it, they're always trying to get him going.
Goddard: Can't see why not for round 1 has good size already moves beautifully for guy his height.
Membery: Midfielders height, but awesome skills so he could turn himself into a midfielder.

Thanx 4 the post Hallalj.
Markworth looking like he might be a contender in 2015. He is like the forgotten man to me. Would be great to see him clock up a few appearances and feel a bit closer to the big time.
Some of the You.tube coverage of McKenzie looked impressive - he looked switched on and good with his marking as well as speed. I remember he rose up the draft prediction ranks quickly just before draft day and was rated as just a few picks outside the teens by some.
Goddard impressed me early as well - he looks like a serious defender (which we certainly need).

Membery has certainly impressed others as yourself so i'm hoping you are all good judges !
Also good to hear Pierce is a good mover and will keep pushing himself forward.

GO SAINTS!