Plugger on 3AW right now

[SAAD]

Ablett left the Cats after he played in 2 flags.

Franklin left the Hawks after he played in 2 flags.

Brereton won 5 flags and his body was shot.

Goddard, Ball, Dal...all left their team mates...they turned their backs on us...they are free to do what they want but in my eyes you will always be a traitor. The job was not over.

This money argument is ridiculous. They already get paid through the roof! It's not like they are leaving a job for an extra 10 grand to make mortgage repayments. You stick together, you take the pay cuts and you build success, none of this crap we had going on at our club, few more pay cuts, add some extra quality depth and we pinch a flag, end of story. Then I may be not so bitter and twisted.

[plugger66]

Ablett left the Cats after he played in 2 flags.

Franklin left the Hawks after he played in 2 flags.

Brereton won 5 flags and his body was shot.

Goddard, Ball, Dal...all left their team mates...they turned their backs on us...they are free to do what they want but in my eyes you will always be a traitor. The job was not over.

This money argument is ridiculous. They already get paid through the roof! It's not like they are leaving a job for an extra 10 grand to make mortgage repayments. You stick together, you take the pay cuts and you build success, none of this crap we had going on at our club, few more pay cuts, add some extra quality depth and we pinch a flag, end of story. Then I may be not so bitter and twisted.

Money argument isn't ridiculous at all. Most people want more money even if they have enough otherwise we may have a set cap on all wages on all jobs throughout Australia. Dal was nearly forced out and BJ would have stayed for a certain amount. Ball wasn't guaranteed a game under RL and Plugger moving was basically mutual. You do realise as pointed out nearly half Hawthorn side is from players moving. I take it you had no respect for G Train or Hamill or Hickey or Bruce?

[SAAD]

In regards to the players having a sook over money or not getting played where they would like suck it up. Soft excuses...I don't like everything in my job but it doesn't mean I'm going to leave.

Oh wow I never have realised that plenty of Hawks have come from other teams. You know why they can poach players? Because their core leaders took a frggin pay cut to take advantage of that situation to bring in quality players. Players coming into Hawthorn took pay cuts to play in a successful team and be a part of that culture.

Hickey and Bruce were sent out to cities that don't give a flying f about football...they are still kids...they aren't established yet and want to make a career out of it.

G Train and Hamill I loved when they came here...and I'll love any other GWS or Gold Coast star who wants to come here...I'm one eyed Saints...

Lenny Hayes and Robert Harvey...that's StKilda...Strength Through Loyalty.

[plugger66]

In regards to the players having a sook over money or not getting played where they would like suck it up. Soft excuses...I don't like everything in my job but it doesn't mean I'm going to leave.

Oh wow I never have realised that plenty of Hawks have come from other teams. You know why they can poach players? Because their core leaders took a frggin pay cut to take advantage of that situation to bring in quality players. Players coming into Hawthorn took pay cuts to play in a successful team and be a part of that culture.

Hickey and Bruce were sent out to cities that don't give a flying f about football...they are still kids...they aren't established yet and want to make a career out of it.

G Train and Hamill I loved when they came here...and I'll love any other GWS or Gold Coast star who wants to come here...I'm one eyed Saints...

Lenny Hayes and Robert Harvey...that's StKilda...Strength Through Loyalty.

Yep but once they leave they are scum. Its your loss having an attitude like that IMO. I still loved watching Plugger at the Swans. I cant just dislike a player I loved one week later because he left. Anyway that is long ago. Surely time heals. And it was basically mutual but you keep just glossing over that point.

[satchmo]

.... And it was basically mutual but you keep just glossing over that point.

Maybe he's glossing over it because it's an outright lie?

[plugger66]

.... And it was basically mutual but you keep just glossing over that point.

Maybe he's glossing over it because it's an outright lie?

No it isn't. We made no real attempt to keep him. I have it on very good authority that the club had had enough of all his attitude and he also needed a change. We certainly could have afforded to keep him if we wanted. So I will accept your apology for calling me a liar.

[satchmo]

.... And it was basically mutual but you keep just glossing over that point.

Maybe he's glossing over it because it's an outright lie?

No it isn't. We made no real attempt to keep him. I have it on very good authority that the club had had enough of all his attitude and he also needed a change. We certainly could have afforded to keep him if we wanted. So I will accept your apology for calling me a liar.

Well basically it's mutual that we agree you are a liar.

I have it on better authority that we certainly could not afford to keep him.

[plugger66]

.... And it was basically mutual but you keep just glossing over that point.

Maybe he's glossing over it because it's an outright lie?

No it isn't. We made no real attempt to keep him. I have it on very good authority that the club had had enough of all his attitude and he also needed a change. We certainly could have afforded to keep him if we wanted. So I will accept your apology for calling me a liar.

Well basically it's mutual that we agree you are a liar.

I have it on better authority that we certainly could not afford to keep him.

Well I heard off John Beveridge. You heard off? Because if you are going to call someone I liar when I know it to be true then you better have some good contacts. I again accept your apology. By the way im happy to at least sort of prove they told me or at least why they would have so just don't make up names to prove you are right because I know you are wrong. Of course we could have kept him if we really wanted too.

[SAAD]

I do have a poor attitude. I'm bitter and twisted.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Well I heard off John Beveridge. You heard off?

I heard directly from Stan Alves that Plugger said to him, "can you get anywhere the offer Sydney have made"

Alves said we couldn't het within $50k a year (a lot in those days).

Alves also said Lockett went out of his way to get us a good trade deal that netted us the likes of Aussie and Smith and others.

So someone is telling porkies.

[plugger66]

Well I heard off John Beveridge. You heard off?

I heard directly from Stan Alves that Plugger said to him, "can you get anywhere the offer Sydney have made"

Alves said we couldn't het within $50k a year (a lot in those days).

Alves also said Lockett went out of his way to get us a good trade deal that netted us the likes of Aussie and Smith and others.

So someone is telling porkies.

Well I would go with Alves because he should know. I still haven't got a clue why Bevo would lie to me though. And I don't think we got Smith and Aussie because of the trade. Didn't we only get Kitchen and Neal? And I thought he was off to the pies firstly but their board stupidly said no.

The finally the club obviously had no idea back then if they say they couldn't afford it because we lost 3k members when Plugger left. That was probably about 300k. He is rumoured to have only got about 300k a year at Sydney.

[satchmo]

Well I heard off John Beveridge. You heard off?

I heard directly from Stan Alves that Plugger said to him, "can you get anywhere the offer Sydney have made"

Alves said we couldn't het within $50k a year (a lot in those days).

Alves also said Lockett went out of his way to get us a good trade deal that netted us the likes of Aussie and Smith and others.

So someone is telling porkies.

Yes, I heard it from Stan, and I also heard it from a Director. We couldn't even match the over the table deal. The under the table stuff wasn't going to be matched by anyone.

[The Fireman]

The day Lockett left things changed for me as far as following an AFL club...have never forgiven him for leaving, he knew how much he was worth to the supporters. Barks made sacrifices to stay at the Saints and why he is a true club Legend.

Luke Ball can go and get stuffed along with BJ. This is the way I feel and wouldn't give you 2 bob for your Devils Advocate attitude Plugger.

[spert]

I remember an interview with Nathan Burke at the time Plugger was thinking of leaving. Plugger told him he was tossing up whether to stay or take much more money and go to the Swans, so he obviously just went for the money, same as Goddard- money is the deciding factor, not the prospect of playing in finals

[Johnny Member]

Still a traitor in my eyes Pluggz.

Many Hawks and Cats could have left for more money...but they didn't...respect.

Stan Alves spoke about this recently.

Reckons Plugger came into his office and told him about the offer. When Plugger told Stan about the offer in money terms, Stan told him he'd be mental not to take it. But Plugger was still reluctant.

Sydney had planned it so that he would just walk out and they'd get him, and we'd get nothing in return.



He apparently went back to Sydney and said 'Yeah Ok, I'll come. But you've got to compensate the Saints. I'm not walking out. Or it's no deal'.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Still a traitor in my eyes Pluggz.

Many Hawks and Cats could have left for more money...but they didn't...respect.

Stan Alves spoke about this recently.

Reckons Plugger came into his office and told him about the offer. When Plugger told Stan about the offer in money terms, Stan told him he'd be mental not to take it. But Plugger was still reluctant.

Sydney had planned it so that he would just walk out and they'd get him, and we'd get nothing in return.



He apparently went back to Sydney and said 'Yeah Ok, I'll come. But you've got to compensate the Saints. I'm not walking out. Or it's no deal'.

That's what I heard as well.

Still I don't know if it negates totally what Bevridge told P66.

Maybe they were a bit sick of Plugger and the change certainly kept him in the AFL for a few seasons longer.

As for Neal and Kitchen, I cant confirm, but I do recollect hearing we got something like Smith, Sziller, and Jones from the Plugger trade.

Two years later Sydney made a grand Final. A year later we did. The trade probably can be seen as mutually beneficial.

[FQF]

I think each player has to be judged on their merits.

Luke Ball left us when we were on the verge of a flag. Yes he might not have been considered to be in our best 3 midfielders (he probably wasn't) but he was selected in our Grand Final team (ahead of Armitage and others) and that's enough to make a player realise they're important. He also royally screwed us over by choosing one team who happened to be a flag contender thereby (1) directly strengthening our direct competition and (2) meaning we got wholly inadequate compensation.

Goddard, in contrast to Ball, left when we were on a decline. Nevertheless, he could easily have played through the slump and been around for our next rise up the ladder. At the end of the day, St Kilda mutually benefited from his leaving despite at least saying publicly that we wanted to keep him. Goddard is probably the victim of our terrible player management.

Dal Santo left essentially at our urging. His form was solid yet so unremarkable that he barely made a difference to our W/L. We also desperately wanted to get Delaney. I don't harbour any ill feelings toward Dal because he was almost certainly not going to be around for our next flag, his departure brought the team reward, and as far as I understand, we were more than happy for him to leave.

Guys like McEvoy and Stanley were traded despite not asking to leave, so they are definitely not in the 'traitor' category.

In summary, Luke Ball is in a league of his own. What he did to us was the least forgivable. This despite his limited game time in the GF and his questionable worth in the eyes of the coach.

[samuraisaint]

He was at his peak when he played for us and was unstoppable on his (many) day(s). It has always intrigued me why, when we had players like him, Winmar, Harvey, Frawley, Loewe, Barker, were we always so second rate? We didn't beat Hawthorn at Princes Park for 16 years, Carlton there for 29, Collingwood at Vic Park for 17, and Richmond at the MCG for 20.
It wasn't really until the middle 90s that we became a side which could win away from home, or interstate, dating back to the early 70s.

[samuraisaint]

I think each player has to be judged on their merits.

Luke Ball left us when we were on the verge of a flag. Yes he might not have been considered to be in our best 3 midfielders (he probably wasn't) but he was selected in our Grand Final team (ahead of Armitage and others) and that's enough to make a player realise they're important. He also royally screwed us over by choosing one team who happened to be a flag contender thereby (1) directly strengthening our direct competition and (2) meaning we got wholly inadequate compensation.

Goddard, in contrast to Ball, left when we were on a decline. Nevertheless, he could easily have played through the slump and been around for our next rise up the ladder. At the end of the day, St Kilda mutually benefited from his leaving despite at least saying publicly that we wanted to keep him. Goddard is probably the victim of our terrible player management.

Dal Santo left essentially at our urging. His form was solid yet so unremarkable that he barely made a difference to our W/L. We also desperately wanted to get Delaney. I don't harbour any ill feelings toward Dal because he was almost certainly not going to be around for our next flag, his departure brought the team reward, and as far as I understand, we were more than happy for him to leave.

Guys like McEvoy and Stanley were traded despite not asking to leave, so they are definitely not in the 'traitor' category.



In summary, Luke Ball is in a league of his own. What he did to us was the least forgivable. This despite his limited game time in the GF and his questionable worth in the eyes of the coach.

Just heard that Dal is going to miss most of the home and away season. And Stanley is going to be given a specific role at Geelong. Mixed blessings.

[samuraisaint]

In regards to the players having a sook over money or not getting played where they would like suck it up. Soft excuses...I don't like everything in my job but it doesn't mean I'm going to leave.

Oh wow I never have realised that plenty of Hawks have come from other teams. You know why they can poach players? Because their core leaders took a frggin pay cut to take advantage of that situation to bring in quality players. Players coming into Hawthorn took pay cuts to play in a successful team and be a part of that culture.

Hickey and Bruce were sent out to cities that don't give a flying f about football...they are still kids...they aren't established yet and want to make a career out of it.

G Train and Hamill I loved when they came here...and I'll love any other GWS or Gold Coast star who wants to come here...I'm one eyed Saints...

Lenny Hayes and Robert Harvey...that's StKilda...Strength Through Loyalty.

And a lot of Hawthorn players were traded too - Croad, Brown, Kennedy, they lost Franklin to FA.
And Hickey is from Queensland - his father was a prominent rugby player.

[whiskers3614]

I think each player has to be judged on their merits.

Luke Ball left us when we were on the verge of a flag. Yes he might not have been considered to be in our best 3 midfielders (he probably wasn't) but he was selected in our Grand Final team (ahead of Armitage and others) and that's enough to make a player realise they're important. He also royally screwed us over by choosing one team who happened to be a flag contender thereby (1) directly strengthening our direct competition and (2) meaning we got wholly inadequate compensation.

Goddard, in contrast to Ball, left when we were on a decline. Nevertheless, he could easily have played through the slump and been around for our next rise up the ladder. At the end of the day, St Kilda mutually benefited from his leaving despite at least saying publicly that we wanted to keep him. Goddard is probably the victim of our terrible player management.

Dal Santo left essentially at our urging. His form was solid yet so unremarkable that he barely made a difference to our W/L. We also desperately wanted to get Delaney. I don't harbour any ill feelings toward Dal because he was almost certainly not going to be around for our next flag, his departure brought the team reward, and as far as I understand, we were more than happy for him to leave.

Guys like McEvoy and Stanley were traded despite not asking to leave, so they are definitely not in the 'traitor' category.

In summary, Luke Ball is in a league of his own. What he did to us was the least forgivable. This despite his limited game time in the GF and his questionable worth in the eyes of the coach.

You can't have it both ways.
If Ball significantly strengthened Collingwood he certainly deserved more ground time in '09.
Before we can level accusations of treachery to BAll we must address Lyon and Misson's incompetence in relation to Ball's use in 2009 GF, A decent administration would have considered terminating Lyon's contract for the biggest GF blunder in our GF history(yes I remember '97!

[plugger66]

I think each player has to be judged on their merits.

Luke Ball left us when we were on the verge of a flag. Yes he might not have been considered to be in our best 3 midfielders (he probably wasn't) but he was selected in our Grand Final team (ahead of Armitage and others) and that's enough to make a player realise they're important. He also royally screwed us over by choosing one team who happened to be a flag contender thereby (1) directly strengthening our direct competition and (2) meaning we got wholly inadequate compensation.

Goddard, in contrast to Ball, left when we were on a decline. Nevertheless, he could easily have played through the slump and been around for our next rise up the ladder. At the end of the day, St Kilda mutually benefited from his leaving despite at least saying publicly that we wanted to keep him. Goddard is probably the victim of our terrible player management.

Dal Santo left essentially at our urging. His form was solid yet so unremarkable that he barely made a difference to our W/L. We also desperately wanted to get Delaney. I don't harbour any ill feelings toward Dal because he was almost certainly not going to be around for our next flag, his departure brought the team reward, and as far as I understand, we were more than happy for him to leave.

Guys like McEvoy and Stanley were traded despite not asking to leave, so they are definitely not in the 'traitor' category.

In summary, Luke Ball is in a league of his own. What he did to us was the least forgivable. This despite his limited game time in the GF and his questionable worth in the eyes of the coach.

You can't have it both ways.
If Ball significantly strengthened Collingwood he certainly deserved more ground time in '09.
Before we can level accusations of treachery to BAll we must address Lyon and Misson's incompetence in relation to Ball's use in 2009 GF, A decent administration would have considered terminating Lyon's contract for the biggest GF blunder in our GF history(yes I remember '97!

Well that's clearly not true. No administration would have terminated his contract. Its very hard to have a sensible discussion when you come out with something that just would never happen at any club. Did you say at the time he should have been sacked? im guessing you are going to say yes even if you didn't.

[The Fireman]

I think each player has to be judged on their merits.

Luke Ball left us when we were on the verge of a flag. Yes he might not have been considered to be in our best 3 midfielders (he probably wasn't) but he was selected in our Grand Final team (ahead of Armitage and others) and that's enough to make a player realise they're important. He also royally screwed us over by choosing one team who happened to be a flag contender thereby (1) directly strengthening our direct competition and (2) meaning we got wholly inadequate compensation.

Goddard, in contrast to Ball, left when we were on a decline. Nevertheless, he could easily have played through the slump and been around for our next rise up the ladder. At the end of the day, St Kilda mutually benefited from his leaving despite at least saying publicly that we wanted to keep him. Goddard is probably the victim of our terrible player management.

Dal Santo left essentially at our urging. His form was solid yet so unremarkable that he barely made a difference to our W/L. We also desperately wanted to get Delaney. I don't harbour any ill feelings toward Dal because he was almost certainly not going to be around for our next flag, his departure brought the team reward, and as far as I understand, we were more than happy for him to leave.

Guys like McEvoy and Stanley were traded despite not asking to leave, so they are definitely not in the 'traitor' category.

In summary, Luke Ball is in a league of his own. What he did to us was the least forgivable. This despite his limited game time in the GF and his questionable worth in the eyes of the coach.

You can't have it both ways.
If Ball significantly strengthened Collingwood he certainly deserved more ground time in '09.
Before we can level accusations of treachery to BAll we must address Lyon and Misson's incompetence in relation to Ball's use in 2009 GF, A decent administration would have considered terminating Lyon's contract for the biggest GF blunder in our GF history(yes I remember '97!

Well that's clearly not true. No administration would have terminated his contract. Its very hard to have a sensible discussion when you come out with something that just would never happen at any club. Did you say at the time he should have been sacked? im guessing you are going to say yes even if you didn't.

Correct Plug.

[cwrcyn]

Ball had an ordinary 2009 after an unremarkable 2008. He was struggling getting from contest to contest. He had been on $600k a year and the club offered him around $350k a year for his next contract. We had salary cap issues after paying too much to the likes of Gram and Koschitzke, so we weren't going to budge on Ball. He was insulted by the huge pay cut and left. Collingwood gave him a front end loaded contract, which over the three years was worth a couple of hundred grand more than we were going to pay him.

Dal Santo had become less influential in games, but still a class player. I believe the club thought they'd seen the best of him and they were desperate to get new talent in, so they sacrificed him. He didn't want to go


Goddard pushed the limit on his contract demand. The club saw an opportunity to get a first round pick and get some salary cap relief in the process, so they called his bluff and he saw the writing on the wall. Again, I don't think he wanted to leave, but had boxed himself into a corner and got the hint that the club was prepared to let him go. So he thought "Well, if that's the way you're playing it, I'm out of here" He got a four year deal at around $750k per year, rather than a 3 year deal at around $650 per year.

[ShanghaiSaint]

Listen if you rate him

Your posting about your spot on 3aw? Self promotion gone mad P66?

I missed it wish didn't chops it all wasn't about his time at swines