Does king walk straight in?

[CQ SAINT]

So out with proven players in with developing players??

Didn’t know we were in a rebuild?

Should we tank to???

We certainly tanked those first 5 rounds.

[B.M]

Prime reason


We stop our season right now - b@f top 10 imo

1-Wilkie 26
2-Sinclair 28
3-Wood 30
4-Crouch 28
5-Marshall 27
6-Owens 20
7-Ross 29
8-Hill 29
9-Howard 27
10- Higgins 25

[CQ SAINT]

Prime reason


We stop our season right now - b@f top 10 imo

1-Wilkie 26
2-Sinclair 28
3-Wood 30
4-Crouch 28
5-Marshall 27
6-Owens 20
7-Ross 29
8-Hill 29
9-Howard 27
10- Higgins 25

We can't stop our season right here though. We need to sort out our forward line.

How will Membrey and Cordy do in the B&F?

Owens and Higgins mainly play forward. They aren't the problem.

We need key forwards put in place. We don't have any.

Silly post.

[Teflon]

Prime reason


We stop our season right now - b@f top 10 imo

1-Wilkie 26
2-Sinclair 28
3-Wood 30
4-Crouch 28
5-Marshall 27
6-Owens 20
7-Ross 29
8-Hill 29
9-Howard 27
10- Higgins 25

We can't stop our season right here though. We need to sort out our forward line.

How will Membrey and Cordy do in the B&F?

Owens and Higgins mainly play forward. They aren't the problem.

We need key forwards put in place. We don't have any.

Silly post.

We’ll said
Caminiti - hasn’t contributed this season… ???
Byrnes?? He’s surprised me
How do we get more/leverage Windhager/Bytel???
What this post shows you is IF you stick to playing by “whose won BnFs or been our past good players” you get left behind really quickly
FFS for the umpteenth time….we are NOT winning the Premiership this year so it’s vital we uncover, expose, find out who is and who isn’t taking us to top 4 then top 2
I know right now it’s not Membrey
I have doubts on Ross at the level in 2-3 when we ought to be right amongst it
How do you get there?????????? That’s the question
Not by playing the same old same old

[B.M]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

[Beno88]

FFS for the umpteenth time….we are NOT winning the Premiership this year so it’s vital we uncover, expose, find out who is and who isn’t taking us to top 4 then top 2

Why aren't we?

Collingwood supporters would've been forgiven for saying that this time last year, they ended up 1 point from a Grand Final.

Richmond supporters probably thought the same early in 2017. I doubt Melbourne supporters predicted a flag in 2021. The Dogs won a flag while unearthing plenty of youth in 2016.

We've won 75% of our matches, all while missing key stars, blooding kids, and reinventing established players. We haven't lost by more than 7 points and lost to the premiership favourites by a kick.

It's an extremely even season (minus the bottom 3) and we are better chance of winning it than at least 12 other clubs.

The best defensive teams make prelims or better. And right now, that's us.

[CQ SAINT]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

What's that got to do wittt the forward line.
Windhager and Owens are actually likely to supersede Crouch and Ross, for now, they can develop as the sub and forward.
Bytel will be the handy spare mid.
Crouch and Ross just need to keep their output at very good and stay within their lanes.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have our eyes on a high profile mid for a bit of insurance at the top level of our list.

[Otiman]

After listening to Ross today I think he might be a little gun shy on King after the issues with Membrey.

Wouldn't be surprised if Caminiti and Cordy come in, with no King or Membrey.

[Teflon]

FFS for the umpteenth time….we are NOT winning the Premiership this year so it’s vital we uncover, expose, find out who is and who isn’t taking us to top 4 then top 2

Why aren't we?

Collingwood supporters would've been forgiven for saying that this time last year, they ended up 1 point from a Grand Final.

Richmond supporters probably thought the same early in 2017. I doubt Melbourne supporters predicted a flag in 2021. The Dogs won a flag while unearthing plenty of youth in 2016.

We've won 75% of our matches, all while missing key stars, blooding kids, and reinventing established players. We haven't lost by more than 7 points and lost to the premiership favourites by a kick.

It's an extremely even season (minus the bottom 3) and we are better chance of winning it than at least 12 other clubs.

The best defensive teams make prelims or better. And right now, that's us.

You tipping flag for us?????
Ross calls it exploratory year….you saying we got Dees, Cats, Pies, Lions covered….??
right..

[Teflon]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

What's that got to do wittt the forward line.
Windhager and Owens are actually likely to supersede Crouch and Ross, for now, they can develop as the sub and forward.
Bytel will be the handy spare mid.
Crouch and Ross just need to keep their output at very good and stay within their lanes.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have our eyes on a high profile mid for a bit of insurance at the top level of our list.

Good call re top level mid I agree
Might depend how serious on DeKoning we are …
But that midfield certainly needs more class ….it’s a long way off top sides …

[B.M]

Who’s the top side

Collingwood??

We were 7 points from them!

I think it’s the front half that is a problem

And data backs that up

We are 3rd on the ladder but 16th for scores per i50

Back half to front half we are ranked 1

[CQ SAINT]

Who’s the top side

Collingwood??

We were 7 points from them!

I think it’s the front half that is a problem

And data backs that up

We are 3rd on the ladder but 16th for scores per i50

Back half to front half we are ranked 1

#1 from back to front is based on the strength of Wilkie as a rebounder, Sinclair as a quarter back and NWM and Hill as running backs and then immense running power of Wood and Byrnes.

We are ranked 17th in hitouts, 17th in clearances and 8th in I50's. What does that data tell you?

[Annoyedsaint]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

That is exactly how it should be.
Play player x over player y……

No. Pick the best side and aim to make finals every year.
Enough of development and experiments. It leads you nowhere.

the more you make the 8 the more opportunities and a door might open in a year where you aren’t necessarily the best side.

Demand players perform or you are out of the side.
It’s professional sport, not the local 3rd division

[Teflon]

Who’s the top side

Collingwood??

We were 7 points from them!

I think it’s the front half that is a problem

And data backs that up

We are 3rd on the ladder but 16th for scores per i50

Back half to front half we are ranked 1

#1 from back to front is based on the strength of Wilkie as a rebounder, Sinclair as a quarter back and NWM and Hill as running backs and then immense running power of Wood and Byrnes.

We are ranked 17th in hitouts, 17th in clearances and 8th in I50's. What does that data tell you?

Yep pays to look a little deeper
I don’t think you need stats to know that our midfield against a Petracca/Oliver/Gawn/Grundy or Bont/Libby/McRae/Treloar Or (insert other top 4 mids) has work to do
Times during games where we just scream for that centre break to shift momentum…feels like at times sides get a run against us and we struggle to shift it
I thought Owens a few times in there got an important hand/touch in that got it going our way….be nice to free him up if forward duties and just let him start in there at times with pure intent of a mid to win the footy ….I think he’ll cause some headaches

[Scollop]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

That is exactly how it should be.
Play player x over player y……

No. Pick the best side and aim to make finals every year.
Enough of development and experiments. It leads you nowhere.

the more you make the 8 the more opportunities and a door might open in a year where you aren’t necessarily the best side.

Demand players perform or you are out of the side.
It’s professional sport, not the local 3rd division

You say pick the best side and aim to make finals and you also say ‘demand players perform or you are out of the side’

I think that’s where the dilemna lies. If a coach and his match committee believe a player is best 22 they tend to play them more often than not. If a coach and his match committee believe a player has ‘credits’ and is a senior player, they also usually provide that player more opportunities to find form than they would a young player.

See below. skeptic asks the question (in the Midfield Thread - link at the bottom of my post) why Crouch has been given a free ride for 3 weeks? IluvHarvey makes excuses for Brad and implies he keeps his place and just needs more time in the centre. He is probably no different with his thinking than what most fans and posters here think about Brad, but what they ignore is that Steele WAS there in the team in the first 2 rounds.

If Windy or Bytel were underperforming for 3 weeks in a row would they be given a free ride?

Crouch’s output or perhaps his effectiveness has dropped markedly for three weeks and a great start to the year

i don't think it's a coincidence that Crouch's output has dipped since Steele has come back in.
He is spending less time in the Centre bounces which is his bread and butter.

[Annoyedsaint]

Ross will just pick the best team - period- wouldn’t even consider birth certificates or the future - never has

His mantra is integrity in selection and players earn the right!

It’s why Bytel and Windhager aren’t getting games

And Crouch and Ross are.

That is exactly how it should be.
Play player x over player y……

No. Pick the best side and aim to make finals every year.
Enough of development and experiments. It leads you nowhere.

the more you make the 8 the more opportunities and a door might open in a year where you aren’t necessarily the best side.

Demand players perform or you are out of the side.
It’s professional sport, not the local 3rd division

You say pick the best side and aim to make finals and you also say ‘demand players perform or you are out of the side’

I think that’s where the dilemna lies. If a coach and his match committee believe a player is best 22 they tend to play them more often than not. If a coach and his match committee believe a player has ‘credits’ and is a senior player, they also usually provide that player mote opportunities to find form than they would a young player.

See below. skeptic asks the question in the Midfield Thread

Crouch’s output or perhaps his effectiveness has dropped markedly for three weeks and a great start to the year

i don't think it's a coincidence that Crouch's output has dipped since Steele has come back in.
He is spending less time in the Centre bounces which is his bread and butter.

Not everyone plays well every game though.
Crouch has been less productive, but first 5 games are his credits. If he played 2 more poor ones AND we lost, then maybe change. An incumbent is always harder to dislodge.

Membrey is a little different. Injured, then unusual form, has no credits this season, but playing as the big banana which is not his go. If a big forward plays this week I’d give him a go at his normal role. It it’s no good then time to have a think until form is found in the VFL.

But the VFL standard is junk compared to years ago, so you can’t exactly tell if Bytel, Billings, etc are doing well or not. But you need to trust the numbers at times I guess.
We’ve had minimal injuries the last few weeks, otherwise they’d be in. Not a bad thing.

[Scollop]

But mate...you can't have your cake and eat it too..

You said "Demand players perform or you are out of the side.
It’s professional sport, not the local 3rd division"

Someone plays 3 bad games they get dropped. Didn't Brad Hill say there's selection integrity' this year? You have to make the call and bite the bullet. No excuses and no consideration given for senior players

If we don't change the line up dramatically in the middle we will continue to produce similar results to the last few years.

Same with our forwards.

If King and Membrey were fit from day 1, we'd have never played Caminiti. If they needed another tall apart from Pou and Owens, Cordy would have been preferred because 'he has credits'. You'd be dismissing anything Caminiti showed at VFL level.

Why is it that it takes injuries to play your youth? Most of our boys have stepped up when given opportunity and I believe with the added responsibility they will excel.

It is crucial for their development that they get continuous games. Owens, Byrnes, Nas at half back, and Caminiti at CHF are prime examples.

Ross and match committee need to bite the bullet and play Windy and Bytel in the middle all day instead of Brad Crouch and Seb Ross. Why not have Brad or Seb as the sub?

Give it a go ffs!! Otherwise don't bullshitt us about it being an exploratory year

[Annoyedsaint]

But mate...you can't have your cake and eat it too..

You said "Demand players perform or you are out of the side.
It’s professional sport, not the local 3rd division"

You have to make the call and bite the bullet. If we don't change the line up dramatically in the middle we will continue to produce similar results to the last few years.

Same with our forwards.

If King and Membrey were fit from day 1, we'd have never played Caminiti. Cordy would have been preferred because 'he has credits'

Why is it that it takes injuries to play your youth? Most of our boys have stepped up when given opportunity and I believe with the added responsibility they will excel.

Owens, Byrnes, Nas at half back, and Caminiti at CHF are prime example.

Ross and match committee need to bite the bullet and play Windy and Bytel in the middle all day instead of Brad Crouch and Seb Ross. Why not have Brad or Seb as the sub?

There’s a tipping point playing too much ‘youth’ at the one time. I think it might also be a safeguard that when a few hit a wall, we have a few in reserve to have their turn.
A taxing style doesn’t suit a team of young guys in all at once.

When I say perform, you need a fair chance.
That was Ratten’s problem, he didn’t change when he had to. If we lose 2 or 3 in a row then that’s when it needs to on a bigger scale because something isn’t working.

Ross has been terrific as far as I’m concerned.
Has shown no signs of being tired like Crouch has.

I’d entertain Crouch as a sub if he needs a rest.

Windhager is a burst player currently.
Possibly needs a bigger tank.

Bytel is the seemingly unlucky one. Just needs a break when he gets his chance without then getting injured.
5 years on the list for 13 games says a bit I think.
Or….perhaps he’s not that good and seen that way by multiple coaches?

[Scollop]

Bytel has been at St Kilda 4 years 6 months. Similar to Max King they were both in rehab for their first year on the list.

We had NO true tall Forward so Max was in as soon as he was fit to play. That wasn't the case for Bytel, with Steele, Seb, Zak, Luke Dunstan and Brad Crouch all available.

Bytel has played more than 13, but maybe you're not counting games as sub. I suppose it makes sense because it really doesn't help a player who needs game time for their development.

He was only given 3 games in the seniors in 2020 when the team was finals bound. Rnd 11-12-13. He played 13 AFL games in 2021 but he was the sub in 5 of those.

2022 was no 'exploratory year' for Ratts

Ratten wasn't prepared to play too many youngsters last year in the same team (similar to your thinking ) because he was trying to secure himself a contract extension.

He hasn't been given continuity. He hasn't been given a fair run to establish himself and gain confidence, but also to gain the confidence of his team mates.

He's super young and could be a 200 gamer

I'm backing my footy knowledge that he'll play at least 100 games of AFL. I hope it's with us

[Annoyedsaint]

Bytel has been at St Kilda 4 years 6 months. Similar to Max King they were both in rehab for their first year on the list.

We had NO true tall Forward so Max was in as soon as he was fit to play. That wasn't the case for Bytel, with Steele, Seb, Zak, Luke Dunstan and Brad Crouch all available.

Bytel has played more than 13, but maybe you're not counting games as sub. I suppose it makes sense because it really doesn't help a player who needs game time for their development.

He was only given 3 games in the seniors in 2020 when the team was finals bound. Rnd 11-12-13. He played 13 AFL games in 2021 but he was the sub in 5 of those.

2022 was no 'exploratory year' for Ratts

Ratten wasn't prepared to play too many youngsters last year in the same team (similar to your thinking ) because he was trying to secure himself a contract extension.

He hasn't been given continuity. He hasn't been given a fair run to establish himself and gain confidence, but also to gain the confidence of his team mates.

He's super young and could be a 200 gamer

I'm backing my footy knowledge that he'll play at least 100 games of AFL. I hope it's with us

Max was also possibly a number 1 draft pick and has more ability.

Fillipou is super young.
Bytel is 23 and injured more often than not over time.
If this year isn’t his year he’ll likely be moved on.
If he then did ok then thems the breaks.

Look at Lincoln McCarthy. 30 games in 7 years at Geelong due to injury. Now more than serviceable at Brisbane.

It doesn’t work out for everyone. Fair or unfair that’s reality.

Overall, play the best side available and at the moment he’s not in it. In that role he’s not currently better than Crouch or Ross.

*seeing Dunstan mentioned just made me shudder

[Scollop]

He could be better than Crouch or Ross

Just takes 4 games in a row to find out

Match committee and Lenny backed him for Round 1. I think Seb and Brad were aware of that and possibly knew they needed to play at their best to retain their status

[Annoyedsaint]

‘Could be’. Might not be.

At 6-2….why?

6-8……sure, go for the current 2nd stringers.
Which is what Ratten should have done when it was clear we were done

Currently at worst case, it’s serviceable depth.
It’s a good thing.

[Scollop]

‘Could be’. Might not be.

At 6-2….why?

I wasn't aware that Sebby and Bradley were in hot form.

Must have had a big impact in our win loss ratio the last 3 weeks...2 losses and only 1 win against the wooden spooners from last year

Remind me how they both played last week?

...No actually FK it!! I already know what you're thinking. They are better, they are proven, they get to retain their spot and will be forgiven if they perform poorly for 2 games in every 5.

[Beno88]

FFS for the umpteenth time….we are NOT winning the Premiership this year so it’s vital we uncover, expose, find out who is and who isn’t taking us to top 4 then top 2

Why aren't we?

Collingwood supporters would've been forgiven for saying that this time last year, they ended up 1 point from a Grand Final.

Richmond supporters probably thought the same early in 2017. I doubt Melbourne supporters predicted a flag in 2021. The Dogs won a flag while unearthing plenty of youth in 2016.

We've won 75% of our matches, all while missing key stars, blooding kids, and reinventing established players. We haven't lost by more than 7 points and lost to the premiership favourites by a kick.

It's an extremely even season (minus the bottom 3) and we are better chance of winning it than at least 12 other clubs.

The best defensive teams make prelims or better. And right now, that's us.

You tipping flag for us?????
Ross calls it exploratory year….you saying we got Dees, Cats, Pies, Lions covered….??
right..

I don't think you read my post properly.

I'm not tipping us for the flag, but we certainly can win it. Right now, we're only behind the four you mention - without a full forward, who now won't play until next week.

[Annoyedsaint]

‘Could be’. Might not be.

At 6-2….why?

I wasn't aware that Sebby and Bradley were in hot form.

Must have had a big impact in our win loss ratio the last 3 weeks...2 losses and only 1 win against the wooden spooners from last year

Remind me how they both played last week?

...No actually FK it!! I already know what you're thinking. They are better, they are proven, they get to retain their spot and will be forgiven if they perform poorly for 2 games in every 5.

Bytel at this stage isn’t good enough.
It’s not difficult.

Thus he got a 1 year contract and Crouch a 5 year contract at $800k

Clearly multiple coaching groups have seen it that way. Could they be wrong? Always a chance he goes elsewhere and does well.

When he gets his chance this year, he needs to take it.
That’s where it’s at currently.

Sinclair was the same and the penny dropped with him eventually.

Do I want Bytel to be good? 100% I do.
Anything to make the list and team stronger to win a flag.