Thommometer

[saint66au]

I personally think its pretty lame that since Nick was made Captain weve had about 5 times as many posts realted to GT than we have congratulating Roo on his captaincy

Some of you just cant help yourselves can you??? No naming names but you would last 5 minutes as fish in the ocean. You take bait the second it was offered

GT is no longer our coach..and as every day passes the obsession with talking about him just gets less and less relevent...and as I said..its the same old people who are drawn like iron filings to a magnet

Oh well...only a matter of time before its gets abusive and we have a legit excuse to lock it..LIKE MOST OF THE OTHER 10,000 THREADS ABOUT GT!!!!!!

Seriously people..is it relevant debate or just as excuse to get the boots into your fave combantants?? I seriously think the latter.

Build a freaking bridge....or start a thread espousing whether Mike Patterson should have been sacked as coach...its about as relevant and we might actually hear something new!!!!

[barneyboyz]

I personally think its pretty lame that since Nick was made Captain weve had about 5 times as many posts realted to GT than we have congratulating Roo on his captaincy

Some of you just cant help yourselves can you??? No naming names but you would last 5 minutes as fish in the ocean. You take bait the second it was offered

GT is no longer our coach..and as every day passes the obsession with talking about him just gets less and less relevent...and as I said..its the same old people who are drawn like iron filings to a magnet

Oh well...only a matter of time before its gets abusive and we have a legit excuse to lock it..LIKE MOST OF THE OTHER 10,000 THREADS ABOUT GT!!!!!!

Seriously people..is it relevant debate or just as excuse to get the boots into your fave combantants?? I seriously think the latter.

Build a freaking bridge....or start a thread espousing whether Mike Patterson should have been sacked as coach...its about as relevant and we might actually hear something new!!!!

Grant Thomas was a spiritual leader of our club who turned black, it might take a while to Excorsise the demons. At any rate, I reckon RL. mightn't bother too much, at least he can run under the radar a little, so to speak

[markp]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result".

It's getting a bit like medieval dentistry or sleep deprivation torture now... just give me the confession and I'll sign it....

[TimeToShineFellas]

Seriously people..is it relevant debate or just as excuse to get the boots into your fave combantants?? I seriously think the latter.

Build a freaking bridge....or start a thread espousing whether Mike Patterson should have been sacked as coach...its about as relevant and we might actually hear something new!!!!

Some of it is relevant debate - and some of it can be healthy and mature as people are entitled to their opinion.

But then again I just re-read what I wrote and the "mature" bit sadly sometimes doesn't apply around here.

Build a freaking bridge....or start a thread espousing whether Mike Patterson should have been sacked as coach...its about as relevant and we might actually hear something new!!!!

But why stop there?!?!?

Surely Alex Jesaulenko, Tony Jewell, Graeme Gellie, Darrel Baldock, Ken Sheldon, Stan Alves, Tim Watson and Malcolm Blight all deserve a thread too!

Don't discriminate!

[rodgerfox]

Have look at 2004 Rodge.....see below

Lots of games played.... and then yes lots of players missing games later.

Now GT had to manage players fitness......took resposnibity for it, demaded it in fact.....and could not do it.

It would be interesting if we could go back in time and have proper injury management of players such as Hamill, Kosi, The Clarkes, Ball etc.. instead of the GT led era whose ide of expert advice was weird liquide diets from Russina' Gurus. By the way how is GT's diet going?

You complain repeatedly about "if only GT had a full list' failing to ackowledge that he wanted to lead the charge in this area.

His gross mismanagement of our playing list in terms of conditioning the players cruelled his chances yes....

GT was not unlucky...he was incompetent.

Rank Name Games Average
1 Lenny Hayes 23 22.22
2 Robert Harvey 23 21.65
3 Luke Ball 25 19.96
4 Nick Dal Santo 25 18.84
5 Austinn Jones 25 18.64
6 Heath Black 20 18.30
7 Nick Riewoldt 25 17.28
8 Stephen Powell 20 17.25
9 Andrew Thompson 24 14.21
10 Steven Baker 21 13.76
11 Aaron Hamill 18 13.22
12 Brett Voss 21 12.76
13 Brendon Goddard 24 12.58
14 Justin Peckett 11 11.55
15 Matthew Maguire 17 11.53
16 Leigh Montagna 9 11.22
17 Justin Koschitzke 17 11.18
18 Jason Blake 19 11.00
19 Xavier Clarke 19 10.79
20 Max Hudghton 16 10.62
21 Leigh Fisher 5 10.60
22 Fraser Gehrig 23 10.35
23 Matthew Ferguson 5 10.00
24 Sam Fisher 7 9.43
25 Troy Schwarze 17 8.82
26 Luke Penny 20 8.65
27 Stephen Milne 21 7.52
28 Brent Guerra 18 6.61
29 Trent Knobel 24 6.12

Ok, so is that your way of admitting you were wrong in posting about how lucky GT was to score such a good list which was the reason we won finals whilst he was there?

Long post to simply say "I was wrong" don't you think?

[TimeToShineFellas]

Grant Thomas was a spiritual leader of our club who turned black, it might take a while to Excorsise the demons.

I would hardly refer to Grant Thomas as a "spiritual leader" of the Club.

Only 3 blokes who I would put in that category and they would be The Doc, Trevor Barker and Robert Harvey.

[saintsRrising]

?

Long post to simply say "I was wrong" don't you think?

Yes agreed Rodge..."you were wrong"

Glad we got that settled.

I posted the 2004 list to show that it was not a bad list before GT's sublime management skills handicapped it with poor player injury and conditioning management....and the drafting of dud after dud.


I shudder to think which "traded" players would be running around in the Saint's colours if GT was still at the helm.

I am sure that GT would have "read the signs" that only he can see to have had a new batch of duds at the club.

[saintly]

GT arriving when he did received the biggest combined boon of any club since North took full advantage of the 10 year rule.

GT took this advantage.....and failed to fully capitalise on it.

Indeed as the Premiership Cup glittered close he then started to progressively destroy the value of the list.

Now this is an argument that I find so ignorant, that it is almost offensive.

Noone can doubt that the StKFC didn't benefit from the draft system. We did.

However, the difference was the of the benefits we received from it, the following happened....

Kosi never really got on the park.

Goose got OP then broke his leg.

Roo didn't play his first season, then played 05 with a cactus shoulder.

Luke Ball after 04, couldn't run due to OP.

Luke Penny did his knee.

Hamill never played more than half a year, and only 1 final.

X Clarke was injured more often than not.

Raph Clarke ditto.

Gehrig played 05 and 06 with a bad foot and broken thumb, meaning he couldn't mark with his hands after 2004.



So, of the 'benefit's' that Thomas 'was handed', amounted to stuff all in relation to the results we got.


There is simply no way that the 'high draft pick' line can be linked to our finals performances in 05 and 06.

The guys we scored from the draft, never played a part. I still find this argument simply astounding and unbelievably ignorant.

andd yet with all those injuries it was not thought until 2007 to increase the off field depat such as rehab, physios etc etc.

hmmn.

and who was it that had both penny and hamill on 5 year contracts and had to be paid out.

how come it was hamill 2 weeks all of the time. should have been put on the long term injury list 2 years ago.
how come kosi was the field whilst having a bad back? should have been rested like raph clarke last year.

maybe luke ball was given proper rehab? we will never know.
however this year with more people off field and more money spent on injury management. Maybe most of those injuries will be looked at better, and managed better! we will know by the end of this season.

[rodgerfox]

andd yet with all those injuries it was not thought until 2007 to increase the off field depat such as rehab, physios etc etc.

hmmn.

and who was it that had both penny and hamill on 5 year contracts and had to be paid out.

how come it was hamill 2 weeks all of the time. should have been put on the long term injury list 2 years ago.
how come kosi was the field whilst having a bad back? should have been rested like raph clarke last year.

maybe luke ball was given proper rehab? we will never know.
however this year with more people off field and more money spent on injury management. Maybe most of those injuries will be looked at better, and managed better! we will know by the end of this season.

This isn't a debate about why these guys weren't playing and who's fault it was.

This was a point raised in response to the claim that Thomas was gifted a great list which was the reason for our top 4 finishes.

The fact that most of the stars that our list was studded with weren't playing, pretty much proves that claim wrong.

[rodgerfox]

?

Long post to simply say "I was wrong" don't you think?

Yes agreed Rodge..."you were wrong"

Glad we got that settled.

I posted the 2004 list to show that it was not a bad list before GT's sublime management skills handicapped it with poor player injury and conditioning management....and the drafting of dud after dud.


I shudder to think which "traded" players would be running around in the Saint's colours if GT was still at the helm.

I am sure that GT would have "read the signs" that only he can see to have had a new batch of duds at the club.

Why do you keep raising the concept of GT still being coach?

He's gone.

There's not many, and certainly not me, who think he should still be coaching us.

Why do you raise it in each post??

[saintsRrising]

the concept of GT still being coach?

He's gone.

There's not many, and certainly not me, who think he should still be coaching us.

Good..looks like the penny has dropped then.

[rodgerfox]

the concept of GT still being coach?

He's gone.

There's not many, and certainly not me, who think he should still be coaching us.

Good..looks like the penny has dropped then.

The penny has dropped??

I've been saying that since day one.


What I've said since day dot, is that we were a year too early in sacking GT.

But unless we won the flag under him last year, which I felt was the only hope of us actually being a contender last year, he had to go. Changing coach means you pretty much concede the flag. A first year coach simply does not win flags. Full stop.

His message wasn't getting through, and the hardness and intensity that he instilled in the team in 04 and 05 - was waning.

Once that goes, it's all over.

[saintsRrising]

This was a point raised in response to the claim that Thomas was gifted a great list which was the reason for our top 4 finishes.

.

If not for GT there would have been top 2 finishes....only top 4 with the list he had at his disposal was an under achievement.


You keep posting that finishing top 4 with the list he had as beeing an achievement. I see it as a failure.

So that is where we strong disagree.

That period had the best list assembled at the Saints since the sixties.

Coaches with lists not as capable got the Saints into Grand Finals in that intervening period IMO.


.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rodgerfox]

This was a point raised in response to the claim that Thomas was gifted a great list which was the reason for our top 4 finishes.

.

If not for GT there would have been top 2 finishes....only top 4 with the list he had at his disposal was an under achievement.


You keep posting that finishing top 4 with the list he had as beeing an achievement. I see it as a failure.

So that is where we strong disagree.

That period had the best list assembled at the Saints since the sixties.

Coaches with lists not as capable got the Saints into Grand Finals in that intervening period IMO.


.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this a response to me?

If so, what relevance does it have to my post??

[JeffDunne]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

[Spinner]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

Which game?

[riccardo]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

I would like to know when that was too.

I would think there would have been an uproar if he even hinted he lost on purpose.

I know we hate him right now, but come on.

[saintsRrising]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

St Kilda defeated by North Melbourne
Round 3, Telstra Dome,
Saturday, 9th April 2005,


Source: GT's own lips post the kangaroos game....

Shannon Grant and a few other Kangaroos run riot in the very last part of the game with the saints blowing their lead.

GT being asked post game why he did not flood stated that finals (or it may have been Premiership) teams did not do that. He further went on to acknowledge that if the Saints had of flooded that the Saints could have won. He chose not to flood.


That was the precise moment that I lost the faith in GT.

As for another source....how about this well known Saintsational Poster who was refelecting on GT at the time..


Grant Thomas
. . . I think in the heat of the moment, people miss the point. Thomas has never coached for today - he probably never will (excepting finals of course and the odd designated game). He coaches for the long to medium term, and often that means missing out on the 4 points on a given day. He regularly gives players tasks and rarely helps them out by moving them if they are getting beaten - he leaves them there to deal with it, and to learn from it. This is why we are a year or two ahead in our development. Is anyone still familiar with the following quote . . . "The result isn't what matters, the process is. We get the process right and the results will follow" . . .
The Article rodgerfox/saintsational.com/10Apr05

[saintsRrising]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

Which game?

St Kilda defeated by North Melbourne
Round 3, Telstra Dome,
Saturday, 9th April 2005,

[Spinner]

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link? Source?

That is a straight out lie.

St Kilda defeated by North Melbourne
Round 3, Telstra Dome,
Saturday, 9th April 2005,


Source: GT's own lips post the kangaroos game....

Shannon Grant and a few other Kangaroos run riot in the very last part of the game with the saints blowing their lead.

GT being asked post game why he did not flood stated that finals (or it may have been Premiership) teams did not do that. He further went on to acknowledge that if the Saints had of flooded that the Saints would have won.


That was the precise moment that I lost the faith in GT.

As for another source....how about this well known Saintsational Poster who was refelecting on GT at the time..


Grant Thomas
. . . I think in the heat of the moment, people miss the point. Thomas has never coached for today - he probably never will (excepting finals of course and the odd designated game). He coaches for the long to medium term, and often that means missing out on the 4 points on a given day. He regularly gives players tasks and rarely helps them out by moving them if they are getting beaten - he leaves them there to deal with it, and to learn from it. This is why we are a year or two ahead in our development. Is anyone still familiar with the following quote . . . "The result isn't what matters, the process is. We get the process right and the results will follow" . . .
The Article rodgerfox/saintsational.com/10Apr05

Someone should have told GT that Premiership sides try to win ALL the time...No matter how they go about it.

[saintsRrising]

Someone should have told GT that Premiership sides try to win ALL the time...No matter how they go about it.

Yes...that is when and where I lost the faith in him right there....

[SENsei]

That is an extremely long bow to draw that he 'deliberately' lost a game. His plans and tactics may have contributed to many losses, but he was trying to win with his differing tactics. To then draw a conclusion that this is 'deliberately' trying to lose is preposterous.

Knowing Grant Thomas (yes I do, do you?), he would never deliberately lose any competition whether it be backyard cricket, tiddlywinks, a courtcase battle or an important H&A game.

He may be alot of things but a tanker is not one of them.

[JeffDunne]

He may be alot of things but a tanker is not one of them.

You did say "tanker" didn't you?


saintsRrising, you're full of it.

[saintsRrising]

That is an extremely long bow to draw that he 'deliberately' lost a game. .

Why?

He acknowledged at the time that if the Saints had flooded that we would have won.

He chose not to...consciously.

Choosing not to act...when you know of the option...is just as mucha decision as choosing to alter action.

He made the wrong call....

He often made the wrong call...and that is the point.

He wanted to do it the GT way....and fair enough that he backed himself...but it was the wrong way.

[saintsRrising]

That is an extremely long bow to draw that he 'deliberately' lost a game. His plans and tactics may have contributed to many losses, but he was trying to win with his differing tactics. To then draw a conclusion that this is 'deliberately' trying to lose is preposterous.

Knowing Grant Thomas (yes I do, do you?), he would never deliberately lose any competition whether it be backyard cricket, tiddlywinks, a courtcase battle or an important H&A game.

He may be alot of things but a tanker is not one of them.

Your in the media...maybe you can get a copy of the audio of the post press conference????