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Thinline wrote:I think players jumping on twitter to bitch is the height of f****** disrespect to an institution that has served them incredibly well for a long period.
Any sportsman who thinks they have a right to another deal 'just because' is a fool. Any sportsman who doesn't know when the cards are stacked is an even bigger one.
Sad and unnecessary way for two genuine footsoldiers to depart. Leaves a sour taste.
Rubbish. There is no excuse for announcing to a room full of people that someone is "retiring" when they might have plans to go elsewhere. This has reputational and potentially even taxation impacts. It's total crap and you wouldn't put up with it if it happened to you.
When I've forcibly "retired" people I have consulted them closely about what form of words is used. If there is disagreement about this, I have said as little as I possibly can.
FINALLY you get the chance to have another crack at Lyon....with all these GF's in recent years its beena long wait....
FWIW - Im wrapt that FINALLY St Kilda have a coach with the balls and objectivity to PUT THE CLUBS interests first.
Steven Baker has been a great servant - he was told weeks ago this was it and didnt like it. IF he wants to go round again he can - nothign stopping him nominating (see Power from Brisbane) but from the St Kilda FC hs IS retiring. He got a send off in the rooms in front of all players, glowing words from coach and best mates in Hayes what the ferk more can this club do?
Ross Lyon also has a responsibility to members WHO PAY FOR THE JOINT to demonstrate immediately that we have a future and that the sky isnt cavinb in. I only hope that measn he's staying.
IF Bakes wants to join anyone else sooking on the sidelines (see Hamill via Warne also sniping) so be it - but those "days"of this club are surwely over. Certainly Lyon thinks so.
Teflon. I'm not necessarily blaming Lyon for this. I've got no idea who was to blame. Lyon might not have been told the whole story and went off half-cocked.
But it should have been a simple thing for the club to agree to say nothing last night about the players who weren't happy they were being "retired".
Has the club done its end of season list review yet. Are these the only 4 who are going to be delisted. What was the flaming hurry?
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
meher baba wrote:
Has the club done its end of season list review yet. Are these the only 4 who are going to be delisted. What was the flaming hurry?
it may just have been that Ross wanted to publicly thank these players- Rob played a strong part in last years finals under physical duress. Mini had takena delisting and worked hard to come back
Bakes and Gardi the same - both have overcome issues over many years..
words may not have been what people wanted to hear, or not quite the right words
same with the use of "staying" as opposed to 'Committed' - the level of emotion meant is up to personal interpretation...
Thinline wrote:I think players jumping on twitter to bitch is the height of f****** disrespect to an institution that has served them incredibly well for a long period.
Any sportsman who thinks they have a right to another deal 'just because' is a fool. Any sportsman who doesn't know when the cards are stacked is an even bigger one.
Sad and unnecessary way for two genuine footsoldiers to depart. Leaves a sour taste.
Rubbish. There is no excuse for announcing to a room full of people that someone is "retiring" when they might have plans to go elsewhere. This has reputational and potentially even taxation impacts. It's total crap and you wouldn't put up with it if it happened to you.
When I've forcibly "retired" people I have consulted them closely about what form of words is used. If there is disagreement about this, I have said as little as I possibly can.
FINALLY you get the chance to have another crack at Lyon....with all these GF's in recent years its beena long wait....
FWIW - Im wrapt that FINALLY St Kilda have a coach with the balls and objectivity to PUT THE CLUBS interests first.
Steven Baker has been a great servant - he was told weeks ago this was it and didnt like it. IF he wants to go round again he can - nothign stopping him nominating (see Power from Brisbane) but from the St Kilda FC hs IS retiring. He got a send off in the rooms in front of all players, glowing words from coach and best mates in Hayes what the ferk more can this club do?
Ross Lyon also has a responsibility to members WHO PAY FOR THE JOINT to demonstrate immediately that we have a future and that the sky isnt cavinb in. I only hope that measn he's staying.
IF Bakes wants to join anyone else sooking on the sidelines (see Hamill via Warne also sniping) so be it - but those "days"of this club are surwely over. Certainly Lyon thinks so.
Now for the rest of some spuds...
+1.
I loved Steve Baker for his contribution, as I loved many a Saints player such as Nicky Winmar as a Sainter, but some players dont know when their time is up.
All four can nominated for the draft if they like. All four can go and play at GWS or Collingwood if picked up.
the Saints weren't whistling Dixie when they went for Pelchen. he is renown for this type of ruthless list management.
Thanks Bakes, thanks Mini, thanks Eddy, and Gards.
Whatever the semantics of the ignorant chattering minority (which is ALL of us BTW) you age GONE from St.Kilda and wont be ever seen in our jumper again.
Sad fact of football.
They are just the first four.
Get ready.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
sainter#4 wrote:for what its worth i saw bakes and milney back in may,bakes back then told me if this is his last year with the saints then he will go around again with GWS in 2012.
didnt bother posting it because people shoot you down here on this forum
I loved Steve Baker for his contribution, as I loved many a Saints player such as Nicky Winmar as a Sainter, but some players dont know when their time is up.
All four can nominated for the draft if they like. All four can go and play at GWS or Collingwood if picked up.
the Saints weren't whistling Dixie when they went for Pelchen. he is renown for this type of ruthless list management.
Thanks Bakes, thanks Mini, thanks Eddy, and Gards.
Whatever the semantics of the ignorant chattering minority (which is ALL of us BTW) you age GONE from St.Kilda and wont be ever seen in our jumper again.
Sad fact of football.
They are just the first four.
Get ready.
All that aside (as I think the real discussion here is being lost a bit), do you think it's a good look for the club to announce something that is clearly not true?
The actual retirement of Bakes is a different issue that I don't think anyone disagrees with. I think it's the handling of it that people are discussing.
Thinline wrote:I think players jumping on twitter to bitch is the height of f****** disrespect to an institution that has served them incredibly well for a long period.
Any sportsman who thinks they have a right to another deal 'just because' is a fool. Any sportsman who doesn't know when the cards are stacked is an even bigger one.
Sad and unnecessary way for two genuine footsoldiers to depart. Leaves a sour taste.
Rubbish. There is no excuse for announcing to a room full of people that someone is "retiring" when they might have plans to go elsewhere. This has reputational and potentially even taxation impacts. It's total crap and you wouldn't put up with it if it happened to you.
When I've forcibly "retired" people I have consulted them closely about what form of words is used. If there is disagreement about this, I have said as little as I possibly can.
What utter tosh. If the message got lost somewhere in the words of a coach who'd just lost a final it can be fixed. Twittering disappointments is graceless and wholly teen-like. Lame as.
Tax implications...I'm sure the commissioner's all over it...bet you he's opening a file right now...
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
Bakes should have been picked last night, and gone out with a Pretty Boy retirement, smashing the sh*t out of the pet Goodes, woulda made a world of difference
A true king doesn't glass his girlfriend.
A true king doesn't smear his blood on an opponent when he cannot break a tag.
A true king does not label umpires disgraceful.
A true king is Robert Harvey.
It depends what you think Ross was trying to acheive, I think he was trying to pay respect to the guys leaving while he had the group, staff, coaches together.
What else would he of been trying to do?
Intention was good IMO.
As for the outcry, Ross hardly has the power to end an AFL career that doesn't want to be ended.
It's the first time he has probably faced this kind of event as a coach, and he used the wrong word.
The Eddy and Mini one are a little bemusing, based on their age, as none of them have season-ending injuries.
As for the Bakes one, why are people so stunned at the clubs approach? How is Baker's situation different from Aussie Jones and Brett Voss? Both clearly wanted to play on but were told they wouldn't be offered a new contract, so they were announced as 'retired'.
With Baker, I get the impression his twitter response is probably based on one of two things. Either he was never going to publicly acknowledge that he was 'retiring', or, originally he was going to go along with it, as it sounds much better to be retiring than delisted, then saw Eddy's twitter response and thought he would do the same.
Enough of the nice men in suits. Bring in some admin who demand success!
SydneySainter wrote:
How is Baker's situation different from Aussie Jones and Brett Voss? Both clearly wanted to play on but were told they wouldn't be offered a new contract, so they were announced as 'retired'.
.
Aussie chose to go. One of the very few.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
SydneySainter wrote:
How is Baker's situation different from Aussie Jones and Brett Voss? Both clearly wanted to play on but were told they wouldn't be offered a new contract, so they were announced as 'retired'.
.
Aussie chose to go. One of the very few.
Maybe that is the case.
My understanding was that he 'chose' to retire for the better interest of the club. Could be wrong though.
Last edited by SydneySainter on Sun 11 Sep 2011 8:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Enough of the nice men in suits. Bring in some admin who demand success!
SainterK wrote:It depends what you think Ross was trying to acheive, I think he was trying to pay respect to the guys leaving while he had the group, staff, coaches together.
What else would he of been trying to do?
Intention was good IMO. >>>>>>>>>
The club issued a media statement on Sunday afternoon, thanking the four players.
St Kilda also clarified that the quartet "would be departing the Saints at season's end".
"In recognition of the part they've each played in the club's growth and success, the coach made the announcement following the team's exit from its fourth successive finals appearance," the club said in the media release.
"All four players played in the club's recent grand final appearances and end their careers at the Saints with honour and admiration."
None of the quartet played in Saturday night's loss to Sydney.
Gardiner had his first and only senior game of the season in round 24, but was dropped for the elimination final.
I have loved the way baker has played for the club , however his last two years , he has clearly been in our bottom six players .
If he believe's he can still cut it , then he should try his luck elsewhere , but unfortunately , his time is up
mr six o'clock wrote:I have loved the way baker has played for the club , however his last two years , he has clearly been in our bottom six players .
If he believe's he can still cut it , then he should try his luck elsewhere , but unfortunately , his time is up
my ideal would be for him to play on at Sandringham and continue to teach our young guys how to give it their most....
but given shorter list- possibly and the need to add fresh faces it just can't be done for too many..
SydneySainter wrote:
How is Baker's situation different from Aussie Jones and Brett Voss? Both clearly wanted to play on but were told they wouldn't be offered a new contract, so they were announced as 'retired'.
.
Aussie chose to go. One of the very few.
Maybe that is the case.
My understanding was that he 'chose' to retire for the better interest of the club. Could be wrong though.
Aussie Jones chose to give it away because he believed he didn't have the drive to give what was required. While he had a pretty bad prelim (played on Schneider) he was still wanted at the club. You shouldn't make stuff up.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
