Are you really happy with that?

[dragit]

I'm awake, but what do you want me to do…?
What's the answer - more goal kicking practice?
New players - Beau Wilkes?

Simpkin wouldnt have gone for mine.
Blake to ruck - McEvoy to two's (clearly needed a run)
Saad passed the concussion test IMO they went cautious - he plays
Milne doesnt go interstate.
Kosi on notice - when Stanley is back his spot is a form based thing.
Geary for Gram
Ledger sub.

So yeah, pesronnel needs to change cause we aint winning the flag allowing sides to score 100 pts a game against us with the same offenders missing when it counts.

Don't mind most of those… though I think McEvoy will improve faster in the 1's even if he is very rusty… Blake looks injured at any rate - probably spent after the last 6 weeks…

Some tough decisions need to be made, sooner rather than later

What about the easy goal misses? Is it just practice? You can't practice composure.

[Teflon]

[I'm disappointed, don't worry about that.

But I don't care what anyone says 6 day breaks hurt when you are up against a side that has had a longer recovery.

They hurt you when you have them back to back to back.

If you don't understand that you've never played sport or trained.

They hurt alot more when you are older.

Who were our worst performers tonight?

But Leo explain to me this simple fact.

We ran over the top of Adelaide in the last ten minutes.

How can a six day break be used as an excuse. Seems like the bye might be worse than the match fitness.

Watter said so himself.

Just an excuse for a disheartening display

It's a reasonable question Joffa.

You played footy didn't you Joffa?

Answer me this, when you were sore after a game how well did you run early on at training on the Tuesday? Especially when you were older?

You'd start off stiff and then warm up.

As you get older somes times you wouldn't run the soreness out until thursday, and some times you'd be sore up until the following saturday.

IMO it's not just about running out of legs, especially if you have the base fitness, it's about starting slowly, and taking a while to get going.

Leo with all due respect to your amateur football career - these are hardened AFL Pros wbho do this for a job weekly.

We ran all over the Crows in the last 10mins of the game - dont tell me the first 90 mins were our "warm up" ...please...

[Teflon]

I'm awake, but what do you want me to do…?
What's the answer - more goal kicking practice?
New players - Beau Wilkes?

Simpkin wouldnt have gone for mine.
Blake to ruck - McEvoy to two's (clearly needed a run)
Saad passed the concussion test IMO they went cautious - he plays
Milne doesnt go interstate.
Kosi on notice - when Stanley is back his spot is a form based thing.
Geary for Gram
Ledger sub.

So yeah, pesronnel needs to change cause we aint winning the flag allowing sides to score 100 pts a game against us with the same offenders missing when it counts.

Don't mind most of those… though I think McEvoy will improve faster in the 1's even if he is very rusty… Blake looks injured at any rate - probably spent after the last 6 weeks…

Some tough decisions need to be made, sooner rather than later

What about the easy goal misses? Is it just practice? You can't practice composure.

I like most of those and it takes care of a couple serial goal misses which I think becomes infectious in a team.
Composure cant be taught you are right (see Dal Santo blind turn out of a pack of Crows and still deliver to a team mate ...its sheer class..)

Change wont happen immediately, but the bigger question Ive asked several time now is : we have had this problem in big games for some time.....IMO its a skill/decision making thing that requires replacement of personnel to correct so when do we make hard decisions on seasoned players careers that at the least says ...you are no longer a walk up start to this side over a kid who has that poise????? ie we keep dropping a Simpkin to persist woth Blake (whose been awesome due toour injuries but is not going to take us fwd skill/decision wise as a team)

Smarter footballers need to be rolled into this side.

[kalsaint]

I would have agreed early in the game, the fight back gives me hope. We were outclassed for the most, did you see the look on the Crow players and coach after the game, they looked as they had lost. Our players showed true grit to come back as they did, to blame Milne for some poor kicking is plain petty when there are so many other things that can be targeted. Great game by blokes who have struggled in Gilbert and Clarke.
They now get a decent rest and will play in the finals.

I so disagree with this and agree with Teflon.

I watched the Eagles game at the ground and saw similarities here. We got our share of clearances but didnt build on this until midway thru' the 1/3 quarter, The WCE fans had the same look as the Crow tonight but got the 4 points.

We now need to beat two of Essendon, Collingwood or Sydney in Sydney to make the 8 unless another top 8 side decides to collapse big time. We will be competing with Carlton or Sydney fo that last spot as Richmond has a simple draw and plenty of long breaks to ensur they recuperate well.

With our record of winning every second week I suspect we will drop a game to a lower side and that will be the ball game for 2012. I think we are consistent and win as many quarters as other top sides (according to AFL stats) but we dont convert these to wins. Now we must or take an early break in September. Good 10 minute bursts are just not good enough to be a contender.

In cant fault the teams effort, just their kicking skills in front of goal, there short kicking in defense that causes costly turnovers. 7 Goals take n by Adelaide from immediately St. Kilda behinds is unacceptable. This game was winnable but we seem to be the catch up kings and this is not normally a good ploy during periods of short breaks.

I'M bitterly disappointed with score conversion and the result but pleased with the effort.

[Leo.J]

Leo with all due respect to your amateur football career - these are hardened AFL Pros wbho do this for a job weekly.

We ran all over the Crows in the last 10mins of the game - dont tell me the first 90 mins were our "warm up" ...please...

Do you know that this doesn't happen do you?

These guys are human, aren't they?

Who were our worst performed players tonight?

Why have we started slowly when we've had our recent 6 day breaks?

From where I sit they looked sore early on, especially the older guys.


2 teams...

One has an older list and a 6 day recovery

One has a young list with a 14 day recovery

Who do you think has an advantage?

I don't think it's an excuse, it's a fact.

[Teflon]

Leo with all due respect to your amateur football career - these are hardened AFL Pros wbho do this for a job weekly.

We ran all over the Crows in the last 10mins of the game - dont tell me the first 90 mins were our "warm up" ...please...

Do you know that this doesn't happen do you?

These guys are human, aren't they?

Who were our worst performed players tonight?

Why have we started slowly when we've had our recent 6 day breaks?

From where I sit they looked sore early on, especially the older guys.


2 teams...

One has an older list and a 6 day recovery

One has a young list with a 14 day recovery

Who do you think has an advantage?

I don't think it's an excuse, it's a fact.

Its an illogical excuse in the context of the game weve just watched

Our side decided to "play" in the last 10 minutes- answer me that ? and spare me the "they were just sore right up till then mumbo jumbo

i thought Steven was average early - Armo too...is that age creeping in?

off the grass leo..

[HitTheBoundary]

I'm NOT happy with tonight.

So I'm going to start at thread on it, then abuse anyone who disagrees with me.

Actually, there's no need....Teflon's already done it........

[Teflon]

I'm NOT happy with tonight.

So I'm going to start at thread on it, then abuse anyone who disagrees with me.

Actually, there's no need....Teflon's already done it........

Fair point

Go feck yourself.

[Griggsy]

Why are people making excuses that are about the crows, they didn't outlass the saints. Doesn't matter who the opponent was tonight, the game was there. Could easily have been a team below us, what if it was a final? And you can say that it wasn't these things but the 'fact' is it doesn't matter. The players will see this as a lost opportunity, not a 'valiant try'.

[Teflon]

Why are people making excuses that are about the crows, they didn't outlass the saints. Doesn't matter who the opponent was tonight, the game was there. Could easily have been a team below us, what if it was a final? And you can say that it wasn't these things but the 'fact' is it doesn't matter. The players will see this as a lost opportunity, not a 'valiant try'.

lets hope they see it that way Griggsy....cause many supporters on here are just happy to be "in" the AFL obviously....winning? thats for the big boys....

[bigcarl]

Leigh Matthews commented of our 6 day break after travelling to the GC.

He said it would be very hard for us to come back, yet we did.

I'm reasonably happy with it, we missed some opportunities, fought it out.

Well done boys.

I'm disappointed but not devastated. We had probably as many scoring shots as them and they kicked four or five arsey goals. They are flying as a team and were at home in front of a fanatical crowd.

IMO, we're not far off it. Just a few holes to fix ... full back and full forward.

[SainterK]

Teflon, you didn't even have the Saints in the eight from memory.

Why all the huff if they are better placed than most on here thought, even you?

[paddy]

we need to place a greater emphasis on defence....

they just managed to break free too easily in their 50, considering we had every player in their 50 they shouldn't be able to break free at stoppages and snap an easy goal...

that being said, i think that older bodies are really being exposed in todays game... too much running... unless its a kick in, the entire playing group occupies about 20% of the ground

[saintspremiers]

we need to place a greater emphasis on defence....

they just managed to break free too easily in their 50, considering we had every player in their 50 they shouldn't be able to break free at stoppages and snap an easy goal...

that being said, i think that older bodies are really being exposed in todays game... too much running... unless its a kick in, the entire playing group occupies about 20% of the ground

Tippet is a giant mobile forward.

We badly needed Stanley last night to have another tall that could run.

Neither Ben nor Kosi could run last night and Blake was stuffed even before he copped the knock.

[St Lenny]

Never happy with a loss. Another missed opportunity. But glad we didnt throw the towel in. whats the saying, bad kicking is bad footy.

[SydneySainter]

Still think we have bigger problems than many are suggesting we have. Definitely positives, but it was the Tigers all over again. Bad ball movement, shanking goals that should be kicked and defence being cut to ribbons.

[jonesy]

We're in a confused stage or phase.

Watters trying to make us more attacking and rightly so,but at present we have over compensated,and are leaking goals badly out the other side.

I think we'll be a better side next year,even with a few ageing key players,but really Lenny aside they are bit part players now.

We saw it in 07/08, not quite up to terms with what Lyon wanted. We saw this laughable corraling at times,and looked like we were disinterested in chasing. It wasn't until 2009 that we clicked about blocking space,yet attacking the ball carrier at the same time.

I'm hoping that in 9 months time we get the balance right. Presently we are not a top 4 side,but it only takes a few tweekes and total confidence in what we are trying to achieve to turn that around

[SainterK]

I don't think we are leaking goals Jonesy in the sense of being more attacking.

We are leaking goals because of turnovers.

I reckon 3 goals alone in the first quarter, were gifts from turnovers.

Modern footy is exposing our poor kicks.

[Buckets]

I don't think we are leaking goals Jonesy in the sense of being more attacking.

We are leaking goals because of turnovers.

I reckon 3 goals alone in the first quarter, were gifts from turnovers.

Modern footy is exposing our poor kicks.

Yep the turnovers cost us big time. Limit those and the result is different.

[jonesy]

I don't think we are leaking goals Jonesy in the sense of being more attacking.

We are leaking goals because of turnovers.

I reckon 3 goals alone in the first quarter, were gifts from turnovers.

Modern footy is exposing our poor kicks.

We had the same poor kicks under Lyon though. We rarely if ever got opened up because of it. On the flip side though,we didn't kick to many goals ourselves, and when opportunities arose on the most important day we kicked away everything.

Watters has time to weed out the turnover kings. It doesn't take much to turn it around. Just four months ago we were seen as slow,add just two players in Saad and Milera to the mix and all of a sudden the football world is talking about our dangerous pace. If we can add two highly polished players to the mix,then the balance swings back pretty quick. Whether we are able to find them or not is the challenge,everyone wants them

[Buckets]

I don't think we are leaking goals Jonesy in the sense of being more attacking.

We are leaking goals because of turnovers.

I reckon 3 goals alone in the first quarter, were gifts from turnovers.

Modern footy is exposing our poor kicks.

We had the same poor kicks under Lyon though. We rarely if ever got opened up because of it. On the flip side though,we didn't kick to many goals ourselves, and when opportunities arose on the most important day we kicked away everything.

Watters has time to weed out the turnover kings. It doesn't take much to turn it around. Just four months ago we were seen as slow,add just two players in Saad and Milera to the mix and all of a sudden the football world is talking about our dangerous pace. If we can add two highly polished players to the mix,then the balance swings back pretty quick. Whether we are able to find them or not is the challenge,everyone wants them

The game has changed dramatically since the 2009 Lyon lockdown really worked. Even now Lyon has had to change his thinking over in Freo due to the changing nature of the game and how much quicker it has become.

[Leo.J]

Its an illogical excuse in the context of the game weve just watched

Our side decided to "play" in the last 10 minutes- answer me that ? and spare me the "they were just sore right up till then mumbo jumbo

i thought Steven was average early - Armo too...is that age creeping in?

off the grass leo..

No it's not

We've been average early in the games where we've had either a double 6 day break, or a 6 day rest with a trip.

It wasn't just the last 10 minutes, after half way through the 2nd quarter we beat the Crows by 4 goals.

Same against the eagles, we beat them after half way through the 2nd quarter.

IMO it's illogical to think that a run of 6 day breaks has not effected our older list.

[desertsaint]

We were buggered. Seemed that way from the opening bounce. The crows had more juice and used it all up in those first three quarters. We were second to the ball, missing tackles we'd normally stick, wayward passing and shooting, and unable to really pressure them as we would have liked (I.e. the Carlton game).
I really like our attitude, never give it up.
So I'll chalk this down as a loss due to our draw - the guys deserve the benefit of the doubt. I believed beforehand a few needed a rest, others said they can tough it out for one more game - well they did tough it out, but simply had too many fatigued players.
We look so close to hitting that switch - if we do I think we can go on and hit the finals with a string of strong wins against the higher placed teams. The only team I fear is Collingwood at our best...
IF we hit that switch.

[Leo.J]

BTW just heard Scotty on SEN say that our 6 day breaks haven't been ideal for Rooey because of soreness.

[3rd generation saint]

Can never be happy with a loss, especially when like the Port, Freo and Richmond games that was quite winnable with a little bit better application, thinking and conversion.
Someone has to seriously teach big Ben how to win hit outs to our advantage.
We need Stanley back in the side to add that bit of unpredicatability and X factor to the team.
Also Stanley's inclusion helps Kosi, who let's face it was great earlier in the year when defences had to cope with him, Stanley and Roo.
Saad's pace was missed last night, and I also think he and Mileera need to play together as they compliment each other.
Sipposs played probably his best game last night and gives us another scoring option.
Yes Milney wasn't great, but still scored three goals and got us back in with a sniff at the end.
Roo was also playing on 1 and half legs last night, but we still managed 16 goals last night.
Our defence isn't as tight as we don't have a real losk down defender like a Max or even Zac anymore.
Also our cause wasn't helped when Fisher just throws the ball onto his foot for a quick kick out of a pack in defence and it happens to go out of bounds and is deemed deliberate, from which the resulting free gives Adelaide a goal!
That is the third shyte decision of that type we have had and all have been costly.
However, Adelaide was the better team, they looked better all night.
Yet despite that, despite our bad play and many of our players not performing to par, we hung around and had the opportunity to pinch it in the end.
The down side is the lost and how we lost, but the upside is we never threw in the towel and we kept trying to win the game to the end.
At the end of this year, we need smart recruiting, not knee jerk reaction to de listings, in order to improve our team, a good mobile ruckman must be high on the list, as well as well as a key defender.
In reality we are about 6 goals from being a top 4 side, as others has said, we could have beaten Adelaide, Freo, Port and Richmond and another 6 goals spread over those games would have done that.