Seb Ross

[saintjake]

One of the best coaches to ever coach the game wanted to delist Jobe Watson because he thought he was too slow and couldn't kick. The coach gets sacked and Watson turns into not only one of the premier midfielders in the competition, but also a brownlow medallist.

Its so, so, so early to tell. Too many arm chair warriors beg, bitch and moan for young players to play, and then shoot them down straight away and demand for them to be delisted because they are superstars in 10 games.
First game back in the seniors, we get smashed by 86 points against arguably one of the best midfields in the competition.

He racked up
19 Touches (7 contested,52% DE with 4 clangers)
4 Tackles
2 Clearances
4 I50's
All in 73% TOG

Here are some comparisons to other players on the night

Dunstan
20 Touches ( 8 Contested 50% DE 2 Clangers)
5 Tackles
4 Clearances
3 I50's
74% TOG

Steven
18 Touches (5 Contested 72%DE 2 Clangers)
4 Tackles
5 Clearances
3 I50's
75% TOG

Curren
18 Touches (5 Contested 78% DE 1 Clangers)
3 Tackles
3 Clearances
2 I50's
87% TOG


Billings
12 touches (6 Contested 50% DE 3 Clangers)
0 Tackles
2 Clearances
3 I50'S
83% TOG

Montagna
27 Touches (5 Contested 74% DE 4 Clangers)
3 Tackles
0 Clearances
2 I50's

I think he is going along alright.


*Not comparing him to Jobe, just using him as an example that people can be wrong
** Take the inevitable drug comments elsewhere please

[SemperFidelis]

Great post, Saint Jake. I reckon he is going alright too.

[Bluthy]

One of the best coaches to ever coach the game wanted to delist Jobe Watson because he thought he was too slow and couldn't kick. The coach gets sacked and Watson turns into not only one of the premier midfielders in the competition, but also a brownlow medallist.

Its so, so, so early to tell. Too many arm chair warriors beg, bitch and moan for young players to play, and then shoot them down straight away and demand for them to be delisted because they are superstars in 10 games.
First game back in the seniors, we get smashed by 86 points against arguably one of the best midfields in the competition.

Sometimes those huge thighs that make you look slow and not up to it early, when you finally build an AFL level tank and learn the discipline of gut running become pistons that pump you over the ground when others are struggling. And suddenly you are more balanced and less exhausted when you have the footy and you become more accurate with your kicking and make better decisions because you have more poise and better reaction time.

[Selhurst Saint]

Brilliant post Saint Jake, you put it into perspective beautifully.

It seems that we look for the "messiah" in every new recruit and if it doesn't become evident immediately we want to stone them.

[Legendary]

One of the best coaches to ever coach the game wanted to delist Jobe Watson because he thought he was too slow and couldn't kick. The coach gets sacked and Watson turns into not only one of the premier midfielders in the competition, but also a brownlow medallist.

Spot on.

Say it again.

[gringo]

One of the best coaches to ever coach the game wanted to delist Jobe Watson because he thought he was too slow and couldn't kick. The coach gets sacked and Watson turns into not only one of the premier midfielders in the competition, but also a brownlow medallist.

Its so, so, so early to tell. Too many arm chair warriors beg, bitch and moan for young players to play, and then shoot them down straight away and demand for them to be delisted because they are superstars in 10 games.
First game back in the seniors, we get smashed by 86 points against arguably one of the best midfields in the competition.

He racked up
19 Touches (7 contested,52% DE with 4 clangers)
4 Tackles
2 Clearances
4 I50's
All in 73% TOG

Here are some comparisons to other players on the night

Dunstan
20 Touches ( 8 Contested 50% DE 2 Clangers)
5 Tackles
4 Clearances
3 I50's
74% TOG

Steven
18 Touches (5 Contested 72%DE 2 Clangers)
4 Tackles
5 Clearances
3 I50's
75% TOG

Curren
18 Touches (5 Contested 78% DE 1 Clangers)
3 Tackles
3 Clearances
2 I50's
87% TOG


Billings
12 touches (6 Contested 50% DE 3 Clangers)
0 Tackles
2 Clearances
3 I50'S
83% TOG

Montagna
27 Touches (5 Contested 74% DE 4 Clangers)
3 Tackles
0 Clearances
2 I50's

I think he is going along alright.


*Not comparing him to Jobe, just using him as an example that people can be wrong
** Take the inevitable drug comments elsewhere please

So you are saying we should delist billing instead? good call. That guy did nothing he's too little and has a bad hair cut. Should never have picked him up -Pelican is a spud and should be shot.

Seriously though I remember going off early on Brendan Goddard where he looked way off being AFL standard to me. He looked as off the pace of AFL as any player I had seen. I thought we had thrown away our number 1 pick. He looked like he'd be lucky to get to 60 games. Blake too. I thought he was terrible early on. I couldn't understand why we would persist early on. I now trust those that are involved with the development to work out who is worth playing.

[saintjake]

Gwilt, Dempster, Geary, Montagna early days) all at some stage weren't good enough to make it according to people on here.

*don't want to hear about how Gwilt might be not up to it now, fact is he was a key reason we were so good in 2010

[plugger66]

Gwilt, Dempster, Geary, Montagna early days) all at some stage weren't good enough to make it according to people on here.

*don't want to hear about how Gwilt might be not up to it now, fact is he was a key reason we were so good in 2010

Whilst I like your support of our players I dont get your last line at all. Just because he was good in 2010 doesnt make him up to it now. Jimmy in now a fringe player IMO. probably picked because we need experience down back.

[saintjake]

Gwilt, Dempster, Geary, Montagna early days) all at some stage weren't good enough to make it according to people on here.

*don't want to hear about how Gwilt might be not up to it now, fact is he was a key reason we were so good in 2010

Whilst I like your support of our players I dont get your last line at all. Just because he was good in 2010 doesnt make him up to it now. Jimmy in now a fringe player IMO. probably picked because we need experience down back.

It's unusually that you'd be argumentative.
I clearly said "don't want to hear about how Gwilt might not be up to it now"
Meaning I don't want to hear people trying to pick apart my argument by saying "Gwilt is rubbish and should've been delisted years ago" just because he is having a poor year.
He, among with Blake and Dempster (all of who have been written off by people on here" have at times held out backline together.
If the people from this site made list management decisions, we would have delisted all of these guys and been sting Roo or Kosi at CHB

[plugger66]

Gwilt, Dempster, Geary, Montagna early days) all at some stage weren't good enough to make it according to people on here.

*don't want to hear about how Gwilt might be not up to it now, fact is he was a key reason we were so good in 2010

Whilst I like your support of our players I dont get your last line at all. Just because he was good in 2010 doesnt make him up to it now. Jimmy in now a fringe player IMO. probably picked because we need experience down back.

It's unusually that you'd be argumentative.
I clearly said "don't want to hear about how Gwilt might not be up to it now"
Meaning I don't want to hear people trying to pick apart my argument by saying "Gwilt is rubbish and should've been delisted years ago" just because he is having a poor year.
He, among with Blake and Dempster (all of who have been written off by people on here" have at times held out backline together.
If the people from this site made list management decisions, we would have delisted all of these guys and been sting Roo or Kosi at CHB

Funny but all I wanted to know is what you meant by that. You have explained it now but is different to what I thought you meant. As I said I thought you meant what I said.

[bobmurray]

Seb's cousin almost got delisted because he was as slow as a wet week, then he supposedly hooked up with a running coach one pre-season and away he went.

Maybe he still does it.. something for Seb to consider.

Or is it more to do with Jobe being on the gear?

Ask the AFL or Essendope's lawyers, even though the EFC took part in this drugs program, now that they have been busted they are pleading ignorance, or arrogance.

[spert]

One of the best coaches to ever coach the game wanted to delist Jobe Watson because he thought he was too slow and couldn't kick. The coach gets sacked and Watson turns into not only one of the premier midfielders in the competition, but also a brownlow medallist.

Its so, so, so early to tell. Too many arm chair warriors beg, bitch and moan for young players to play, and then shoot them down straight away and demand for them to be delisted because they are superstars in 10 games.
First game back in the seniors, we get smashed by 86 points against arguably one of the best midfields in the competition.

He racked up
19 Touches (7 contested,52% DE with 4 clangers)
4 Tackles
2 Clearances
4 I50's
All in 73% TOG

Here are some comparisons to other players on the night

Dunstan
20 Touches ( 8 Contested 50% DE 2 Clangers)
5 Tackles
4 Clearances
3 I50's
74% TOG

Steven
18 Touches (5 Contested 72%DE 2 Clangers)
4 Tackles
5 Clearances
3 I50's
75% TOG

Curren
18 Touches (5 Contested 78% DE 1 Clangers)
3 Tackles
3 Clearances
2 I50's
87% TOG


Billings
12 touches (6 Contested 50% DE 3 Clangers)
0 Tackles
2 Clearances
3 I50'S
83% TOG

Montagna
27 Touches (5 Contested 74% DE 4 Clangers)
3 Tackles
0 Clearances
2 I50's

I think he is going along alright.


*Not comparing him to Jobe, just using him as an example that people can be wrong
** Take the inevitable drug comments elsewhere please

So you are saying we should delist billing instead? good call. That guy did nothing he's too little and has a bad hair cut. Should never have picked him up -Pelican is a spud and should be shot.

Seriously though I remember going off early on Brendan Goddard where he looked way off being AFL standard to me. He looked as off the pace of AFL as any player I had seen. I thought we had thrown away our number 1 pick. He looked like he'd be lucky to get to 60 games. Blake too. I thought he was terrible early on. I couldn't understand why we would persist early on. I now trust those that are involved with the development to work out who is worth playing.

I remember people calling for Goddard to be dropped on these forums way back when he just started out- no good, not up to standard etc, while others said, nah give him time. I feel that Newnes and Acres (from the little I have seen) are in the Goddard mould and will only get better. Mind you, if players are getting good stats, and the team is getting thrashed, then there is a big problem somewhere, and a lot of it is young players who disappear for a quarter of two due to lack of a tank in their early careers (a bigger worry is senior players who go missing for a quarter). Ross should be kept in the seniors to develop...maybe Billings needs a break back at VFL and Dunnell comes in.

[dragit]

It's not Seb's tank that I'm worried about, it's his natural speed…

Looks like a natural footballer, but he looked like the slowest player on the ground on Friday night which will be a problem as a midfielder if he can't keep up with his opponent.

Would like nothing better than for him to become a solid AFL player, but I am pretty concerned that his lack of pace just might keep from doing so.

[gringo]

It's not Seb's tank that I'm worried about, it's his natural speed…

Looks like a natural footballer, but he looked like the slowest player on the ground on Friday night which will be a problem as a midfielder if he can't keep up with his opponent.

Would like nothing better than for him to become a solid AFL player, but I am pretty concerned that his lack of pace just might keep from doing so.

Other slow players make it but need to have some other tricks. Seb is going to be an extractor long term but right now he's behind Lenny and Armo so he might need games with the knowledge that he's out of position but that he will get a lot better when used the right way. He looks a bit like he doesn't get emotional and lacks a bit of desperation but he's young so it might kick in with time. It's so hard to tell before about 50 games. Statistically he stacks up with guys like Lenny early on in their careers.

I think Dunstan, Eli and Billings have set unrealistic ideas about how quickly young players should come on. Most players don't show anything but patches until they get around 50 games.

I'm still hopefully optimistic with Seb. Guys like Spencer White I can understand the concern with because his VFL out put is reason enough to worry but Seb has been a very good VFL level player this year and was okay in his senior appearances. Last year late he was looking pretty good too.

[dragit]

Hope you're right gringo, I'm hopeful rather than optimistic… we need everything to go right at the moment.

There is a point where players just can't run fast enough to play at this level, IMO.

[White Winmar]

He's no slower than Sam Mitchell. Some take a bit of time, and Seb is one of those. The Watson comparisons are relevant. He was slow until he shed his puppy fat and got the physique of a true AFL midfielder. Judgement, effort and an ability to read the play then topped off the package. I reckon Seb is similar. Needs to become as lean as possible, losing fat, not muscle, to improve his tank. He has all the other pieces of the puzzle. He might be a couple of years away ATM, but I think he's worth persevering with.

[terry smith rules]

I thought he was clearly in our best against Port, shows some excellent signs for the future

[maverick]

I reckon his main fault is he takes too long to make a decision, maybe it's confidence?

[BigMart]

Hard to make a decision when you can't

No structure fwd of the ball that's even allows a one out contest, let alone a free target?

Hesitation is often caused by no target...

[Munga]

Just about to post the same thing BigMart. There are plenty of issues with our gameplay, that causes problems to manifest.
I've heard Richo say we've gone back to basics because of the number of youth, sounded good at the time. I wonder what that entails, because it sure doesn't seem like it includes positioning around contests and clearances, using your body, closing down opponents, creating space, running to space, kicking to space, crumbing, clearance intensity, drawing frees, shepherding etc etc....I don't want that to sound at all like a dig at Richo because he's doing good things, there's just a long way to go!

It mostly starts in the middle. If they can't win the ball ya stuffed. If they can't choose the right option ya stuffed. If they can't execute ya stuffed.
There's a large divide between the way Lenny plays and the youth. Even Lenny can position himself one on one and take a contested mark, and when he doesn't he draws the free for holding. I'm sure our youth can make the grade one day soon, but it's all about education at the moment. Sounds like we've got the staff and leaders for our boys to become A grade.

I don't know why I'm writing this in this thread, maybe because a guy like Seb epitomises where we're at.

PS, good to see Seb selling a stack on candy today ala Lenny.

[stinger]

I'm starting to develop a manly love for the boy.

[PurpleHayes]

Thought the kid deserved a big wrap after his game against the Cats, following up from a decent performance against the Power.
Not forgetting we have played 2 top 4 teams the last 2 weeks, Ross has featured in the best both games.

It is ABSOLUTELY LAUGHABLE on here how quickly so called 'supporters' write off our own players.

I went through all the posts in this thread and some of it was absolute crap. Funny not many on here praising him after stringing together a couple good games and looking adept at the top level.

Hopefully he surprised a few against the cats, looked to have a bit more leg speed than first thought!
Perhaps he is beginning to adjust to the pace of the top level? And gain some confidence to tuck the ball under the arm and back himself in? Who would have thought that a player can improve after they are drafted and work on parts of their game!?

FFS How fast do some tards on here realistically expect our young brigade to develop?

Dunstan only had 10 possessions with 50% DE - havn't noticed anyone sh1tcanning his game?!

As a comparison, Ross had 28 possessions, 9 contested, DE 78%, 5 marks, only 2 clangers, 4 clearances, 6 rebound 50s, 3 tackles, 2 inside 50s and 1 GA.

Ross has only played 19 games now.. coming along nicely and I am enjoying watching him develop, having really fought his way back into the side after many consistent VFL performances.

All the best to Ross. Hope he continues to prove the arm chair critics wrong.

[Spinner]

One thing about Ross is that he puts in continued quality performances in the VFL.

Much unlike a lot of other players getting opportunities in the seniors.

[plugger66]

One thing about Ross is that he puts in continued quality performances in the VFL.

Much unlike a lot of other players getting opportunities in the seniors.

That is so true. To many on here want guys promoted because of this unrealistic expectation that they will be better in a comp that is 5 times better already. The reason some cant play is because they cant play either at sandy or the saints. I will be really disappointed if Stanley comes up this week based on reports of his sandy game. Injury aside to Longer. Lets play savage if he played well at sandy and if he fails again we drop him and then assess where he is at but dont play another player in the hope he will turn around his form or ability.

[skeptic]

It's interesting because if a lot of forumites had their way, Seb would have been written off after his first game this season...

it's like I said a page ago... players promoted from the VFL need a decent run so that we can gauge improvement

Ross has improved... looks good enough to stay on the list atm

Same thing is now happening to Lee and Dunnell as well as Siposs too

Like a 15 goal trouncing tells you everything you need to know about a player