Cyril.

[White Winmar]

How the f*** do premiership medals measure an individual's ability? What a moronic comment

Tony Lockett was therefore nowhere as good as 5 time premiership player Jason Dunstall
Gary Ablett senior not as good as Shane Ellen (a 5 goal FF in a gf)

Nick Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Sam Fisher not holding a candle to Gunston, Lewis, Birchall yes?!

I think Cyril can thank his lucky stars for being in a team with
Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Gibson, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Lewis, Birchall,
For being a 4 time premiership play

Do you honestly think if Betts or Winguard wouldn't have won flags at Hawthorn????

On winning the game
I could easily say, the person who won the footy and kicked it to Cyril was as much a matchwinner because without that possession... No victory
Or Burgoyne kicking to clutch goals??

If you didn't realise, a game goes for 120 minutes and 1 possession does not amount to a victory. It was a nice kick, not extraordinary ... Just a goal from 51.

You should really stop arguing with yourself. You just drag yourself down to your level.

YOU SAID

Cyril Rioli
Not in any measue is as good as
Chad Winguard, Eddie Betts, Michael Walters and this year Toby Greene

That is one of the most moronic things you've said this week.
I think what you mean is 'not in any measure that clearly disproves my point'

And BTW, if you are going the straw man argument, why not go all the way and use Mother Teressa, or Bert Newton?

Mother Theresa was a selfless, inside, in and under type. Always at the coal face winning the hard ball. Lots of 1%s. Newton on the other hand was a showy, inconsistent, selfish type. Capable of brilliant things, but always doomed to be the second banana behind the Lockett like Graham Kennedy, or the Buddy like Don Lane. Good, but not the main star. Personally, I think Cyril's better than both of them.

[Scollop]

Bruce McAvavey has a lot to answer for.

I think now he has a new infatuation.

Alir Alir....Delicious!!!

[dragit]

Solid thread... Good work stinger

[BigMart]

People (sheep) who fall for media hype make me laugh

So do moronic supporters who yell absolute rubbish at the footy, and haven't got the first clue ....

To me, Cyril Rioli can obviously play (albeit gives average output considering his skill level) and is a product of a a media marketing machine followed by simpleton supporters who believe most rubbish they hear or read.

If I had an open choice of small fwds in the league
Chad Winguard would easily be my choice - wins more footy
Eddie Betts seconds - better offensively
Cyril probably third - although Boomer Harvey/Stevie J are better numerically still


Ps
Imagine if Cyril kicked the goal Sam Lloyd did today and actually kicked 3
It'd be back page Monday

[Bernard Shakey]

Cyril is a lazy player who pops up when everyone else is knackered!

[skeptic]

People (sheep) who fall for media hype make me laugh

So do moronic supporters who yell absolute rubbish at the footy, and haven't got the first clue ....

To me, Cyril Rioli can obviously play (albeit gives average output considering his skill level) and is a product of a a media marketing machine followed by simpleton supporters who believe most rubbish they hear or read.

If I had an open choice of small fwds in the league
Chad Winguard would easily be my choice - wins more footy
Eddie Betts seconds - better offensively
Cyril probably third - although Boomer Harvey/Stevie J are better numerically still


Ps
Imagine if Cyril kicked the goal Sam Lloyd did today and actually kicked 3
It'd be back page Monday

It's really easy to throw generalised insults and attack arguments that no one is making but is your view of what incorrect argument should be.
You're old nemesis Bunk was a master at this.

As it stands right now Mart there is little point debating with you as you seem more intent arguing with yourself

[skeptic]

Solid thread... Good work stinger

Get your 100% custom made "we should have gotten Andrejs Everite ahead of Cyril and Danger. I know he's going to be good" t-shirt

I beat you Saynta got a bunch of them after Everite was beaten by Tom Lee a few weeks ago. I wonder what that does to the mind.

[loris]

And BTW, if you are going the straw man argument, why not go all the way and use Mother Teressa, or Bert Newton?

Mother Theresa was a selfless, inside, in and under type. Always at the coal face winning the hard ball. Lots of 1%s. Newton on the other hand was a showy, inconsistent, selfish type. Capable of brilliant things, but always doomed to be the second banana behind the Lockett like Graham Kennedy, or the Buddy like Don Lane. Good, but not the main star. Personally, I think Cyril's better than both of them.

Brilliant WW, brilliant. Your posting over recent times has been Chas Brownlow, Norm Smith, John Coleman medalist style ........... keep the high standard coming, just luv it matey

[derby Street]

And BTW, if you are going the straw man argument, why not go all the way and use Mother Teressa, or Bert Newton?

Mother Theresa was a selfless, inside, in and under type. Always at the coal face winning the hard ball. Lots of 1%s. Newton on the other hand was a showy, inconsistent, selfish type. Capable of brilliant things, but always doomed to be the second banana behind the Lockett like Graham Kennedy, or the Buddy like Don Lane. Good, but not the main star. Personally, I think Cyril's better than both of them.

Brilliant WW, brilliant. Your posting over recent times has been Chas Brownlow, Norm Smith, John Coleman medalist style ........... keep the high standard coming, just luv it matey

Agree with you Loris 100% -a witty intelligent post like that of WW is quite a revelation on here. Far more enjoyable than some of the agony aunts on here

[saynta]

Cryil is a star match winning footballer. Full stop.

On AFL Game day this morning, he was described as a " once in a lifetime player".

Most footy connoisseurs would agree with that.

[BigMart]

I would have thought I was arguing against the OP??

It suggested Cyril is a star and we should have drafted him

I suggest Paddy Dangerfireld is a real star, perhaps look at him???

I love it when flogs start arguing about me, and forget the topic (even though im irrelevent) it just says, that they have no counter.

To suggest Cyril is overhyped.... perhaps just read the HS today.
He's been thrown up as the best player in the league.... its hilarious.... he's not in the best 5 at Hawthorn.

2 quotes made me LOL
1 - he's averaging 2 goals a game for the first time in his career... like thats unbelievable...
Betts, Milne, Winguard, Stevie J have done that week in week out, year after year...
2 - has there been a better 14 possession player?
possibly not? maybe Eddie or Milney... this year, Tim Membrey
But there certainly has been better 20PPG players, better 25ppg players, better 30ppg players better 8mpg players, better 10mpg players, better 2.5gpg players

best forward in the AFL in 2016 imo
Tom Lynch
Lance Franklin
Josh Kennedy
Eddie Betts
Stevie Johnson
Jack Gunston
Tom Lynch (adel)
Cyril Rioli
Jack Riewoldt
Toby Greene
Chad Winguard
Jeremy Cameron
Jesse Hogan
Tim Membrey
Luke Bruest
Jarrod Waite

[skeptic]

Several ppl have posted some reasonable counter arguments to what your posting... Rather than address address those arguments you've opted to throw in generalised comments how the majority here can't see past the media hype, embellish what was written by suggesting ppl are posting that he is the best ever, countering arguments that haven't been made to enhance your point and like your old rivals your flying in with the insults.

It makes discussing football with you quite a painful endeavour pbly evidenced by the fact that ppl that were discussing the topic with you have stopped. Me personally, I've said what i wanted to on the topic and nothing you've posted since alters that view.
I would suggest tune down the elaborate nasty tone of you POV if ur actually interested in discussing football or don't.

I don't think I've read anyone suggest that Cyril should have been drafted ahead of Danger. Just ahead of McEvoy... Even if not stated directly, it's not exactly hard to connect the dots

[saynta]

A first for me, I agree with Robbo and I don't feel dirty.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/e ... f51c2fa817


"WHAT an intriguing debate it is: Who is the most valuable player at Hawthorn?

This was no round-table discussion at Fox Footy, where Dermott Brereton and Jason Dunstall give us informed opinion that carries considerable weight because they are premiership players.

No, this was seven blokes in love with footy, in the loungeroom, beers in hand, 10 minutes after the Hawks had once again stunned the football world with a victory over the Swans on Thursday night.

How do they do it? What do they do right? Why didn’t the Swans stop Jordan Lewis going third man up? How bloody good was Shaun Burgoyne? Where has that been from Brad Hill? Who doesn’t sit on Sam Mitchell?

And then there was Cyril Rioli.

There’s a strong argument that Rioli is the best player in the competition.

In fact one senior coach, answering a range of questions in a coaches’ survey that will be released shortly, had the dynamic Hawk as his No.1 ahead of players like Patrick Dangerfield and Lance Franklin.

And last week Chris Judd, whose opinion should also mould public opinion, didn’t so much argue about why Rioli was the best player at Hawthorn, he simply announced he was.
Cyril Rioli is Hawthorn’s most valuable player, says Mark Robinson. Picture: AAP

Staggering still is that of the 1300 or so mid-year All-Australian teams compiled by media and fans, Rioli didn’t figure any of them. Not that I saw, anyhow.

Anyway, the lounge room discussion on Thursday night started with Cyril.

His clutch goal from 54m in the final 90 seconds was inspiring. So was his marking. So was his tackling and pressure.

So was the confidence from his teammates because without an obvious option, they went to Rioli one-on-one because they considered that was the best option.

Rioli IS Hawthorn’s game style — forward half pressure creating turnovers, creating scores.

An All-Australian in 2015, Rioli’s 2016 is statistically better.

He’s averaging two goals a game for the first time in his career. He’s kicked 31.9. He’s creating more forward-half pressure than ever. He’s career high in tackles (six). And he’s just gone 27, which means he’s in the peak of his career.

Seriously, has there been a better 14-disposal player?

What about Burgoyne as the most valuable?

Hard to argue against. He went into the midfield against the Swans and changed the game. He always does with his body work and tap-ons and ability to get and dispose of the ball in traffic. But against the Swans it was also ball accumulation. He had 26 disposals, 11 tackles and 10 clearances — all his season-high.

He’s Alastair Clarkson’s problem-fixer in the middle and without him on Thursday, Rioli doesn’t kick the winner because the Hawks would have been four goals behind.

What about Mitchell?

Hard to argue against. Used to argue Nathan Buckley was the most consistent elite player I’d seen, but Mitchell has perhaps overtaken him and it helps that Mitchell is performing at an elite level deeper in his career.

Buckley played 280 games, his final game at 35 years and 57 days. Mitchell is 34 in October and will play his 300th game next week.

He continues to win the ball — he had 37 against the Swans — he rarely gets caught with it.

When he does, he still manages to hand it off. He remains the playmaker who is given the ball to decide how and where to move it. How valuable a player is that?

What about Luke Hodge?

Hard to argue against. Organiser. Skipper. Inspiring leader. And more often than not involved in the big plays. It is often said Hawthorn makes the right decisions at the most intense moments and that more than adequately describes Luke Hodge.
Luke Hodge is an inspiration leader. Picture: AAP

What about Josh Gibson?

It’s a stretch to say he’s the most valuable player, but you wouldn’t like to see the Hawks in a final without Gibson controlling the back group. Twice a best-and-fairest winner in premiership seasons (2013, 2015), he’s played 25, 22, 24, 17 and 25 games in the past five seasons and 15 of 16 this year. He’s reliable, calm, plays tall, rebounds and rarely coughs up the pill.

What about Jack Gunston?

Without Jarryd Roughead, Gunston is the most valuable tall forward by far.

James Sicily and Tim O’Brien are young, the ruckmen sneak forward at times, but Gunston, at just 24, is required to be a combination of hit-up forward, pack marker and long target. Rioli, Lewis and Mitchell got the accolades at the end against the Swans, but Gunston kept the Hawks within reach early. He had 20 possessions, took eight marks — three contested — and kicked 2.2.

The loungeroom debate of about 30 minutes ended when three of us voted for Rioli, two for Burgoyne and two for Mitchell.

So it was settled ... for a couple of minutes anyway.

Later, watching Phil Mickelson tame Royal Troon, one of the blokes chirped up: “How can Hodge not be the most valuable player at Hawthorn?”

It was a reasonable question.

And it underlined the might of the Hawks.

[Linton Lodger]

Troll

No not necessarily a troll, its fair comment.

We took McEvoy in that draft, now I have a lot of time for Big Ben, however he should not have been taken ahead of a number of players. You don't pick ruckman with a top 10 pick!

Interesting comment. Very black and white. Not sure I agree. Ryder, Naitanui, Ottens, Josh Fraser, Gardiner no good. All top ten picks.
Don't think AFL clubs would agree with you.

In all fairness: Natanui is an absolute freak with a freakish vertical leap and can play like a midfielder, Ryder is also an accomplished key forward, yes Ottens & Gardiner were great ruckman but I don't believe they should have gone top 10 (Gardiner certainly wasn't a No.1) and Fraser just wasn't much chop.

[BigMart]

Watched the first half today...

5 touches from the GUN... 3 effective

Sam Mitchell had 22 most effective

[saynta]

People (sheep) who fall for media hype make me laugh

So do moronic supporters who yell absolute rubbish at the footy, and haven't got the first clue ....

To me, Cyril Rioli can obviously play (albeit gives average output considering his skill level) and is a product of a a media marketing machine followed by simpleton supporters who believe most rubbish they hear or read.

If I had an open choice of small fwds in the league
Chad Winguard would easily be my choice - wins more footy
Eddie Betts seconds - better offensively
Cyril probably third - although Boomer Harvey/Stevie J are better numerically still


Ps
Imagine if Cyril kicked the goal Sam Lloyd did today and actually kicked 3
It'd be back page Monday

My opinion of Cyril is from watching him play football. Same way that I form opinions on every footballer, Seb Ross included.

Decades of working in a much reported industry has led be to be extremely wary of anything printed in a newspaper.

Your description of what I can only assume you consider your average supporter is extremely rude. You seemeto want to come across as a somewhat more elite supporter, separate from the uninformed, or as you consider, misinformed general population.

[saintspremiers]

Bruce McAvavey has a lot to answer for.

I think now he has a new infatuation.

Alir Alir....Delicious!!!

"Alive Alir, is Here, is Here!!"

[desertsaint]

wel i do see BigMart's point, Cyril is a fantastic player. Does the flashy and the hard, does it when it's really needed. Superstar. But Sam Mitchell is hands down the most important player at the Hawks. One of the all time greats!

[skeptic]

wel i do see BigMart's point, Cyril is a fantastic player. Does the flashy and the hard, does it when it's really needed. Superstar. But Sam Mitchell is hands down the most important player at the Hawks. One of the all time greats!

I don't think many ppl are arguing against that

[saynta]

wel i do see BigMart's point, Cyril is a fantastic player. Does the flashy and the hard, does it when it's really needed. Superstar. But Sam Mitchell is hands down the most important player at the Hawks. One of the all time greats!

Most important v best= mitchell v Cyril.

Mitchell is the most important. I can go along with that.

But Cyril is the best player. Most skilful by the length of the straight followed by Bergoine.

[BigMart]

define skill in football...

best player is generally the most skillful... because how do you measure skill... by being goos at the game.

winning the ball is a skill... using the ball is a skill

Mitchell is the best at both

[saynta]

define skill in football...

best player is generally the most skillful... because how do you measure skill... by being goos at the game.

winning the ball is a skill... using the ball is a skill

Mitchell is the best at both

I disagree BM. But that's what makes the world go around.

I stick with my opening post.

[Sainternist]

Why not just enjoy watching Cyril play for one of the greatest teams in the history of the game? They're on the verge of winning their 4th straight premiership. We should count ourselves lucky to be around to witness such an incredible feat, should it happen.

[skeptic]

It's pretty simple really. Cyril is a gun. Mitchell is a champion. I agree that Mitchell is better. He's more consistent, more reliable, a player to build a club around. He can't do the things that Cyril can do. It's not an apples vs apples comparison. I would be happy with either.

I don't really get the point of this thread. Cyril is overrated because he's not Mitchell seems to be the gist of it. Most agree that Sam is better but outside of Mart, most seem to appreciate the value of a player that can turn a game on it's head like Cyril

[whiskers3614]

Cyril 12 tackles half way through the last.
Plenty of small forwards have kicked 4 or more.
Can anyone remember one having more tackles?