training today

[borderbarry]

I wish you people would read the heading of the thread. It is supposed to be about todays training, not rubbishing our ruckmen.

[HarveysDeciple]

For every player that has come back from long term injuries as good as when he left, there are a dozen who never recovered.

I hope Gardiner comes back and decemates the competition, but the more likley senario is he will play a couple of ordinary games and break down again.

At the moment, this very second, he is a waste of money, effort and time. I really he won't always be, but history suggests otherwise.

Is this attitude based or football based because 28 year old AA ruckmen arent dropping from trees and were hardly over our heads in ruckmen so hes well worth it.

Its foot based. As in, his are stuffed.

It wouldn't matter if he was an AA ruckman or Miss flowering America, if he can't walk, he is useless.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

since when can he not walk?

[mad saint guy]

On your theory Hird Voss and even Harvs would of been thrown out years ago! All suffered 12month plus injuries at some stage in there careers. Please dont ever become a selector.

None of them have ever missed 12 months through an injury.

Harvey and Hird missed most of one season while Voss had a lingering knee problem that rarely kept him from playing. They are the worst injuries those three have had.

Gardiner has missed 4 years of AFL football through chronic foot problems and debilitating knee injuries. Occasionally he gets himself fit for a while (2006 the main example, when he played about 10 games), but he always breaks down again. In the short periods when he has actually made it onto the ground he has been almost worthless.

If Misson is truly good enough to get Gardiner back in match condition, then we should have a decent backup ruckman for up to 15 games this year. He would be better than Rix, but I doubt he'd be better than Knobel 04 or Ackland 05.

Remember that we have supposedly had "the strongest ruck stocks we've had for years" every year since 2004. Knobel and Koschitzke were going to come of age and dominate in 2004. Ackland was our ready made athletic ruck with good skills in 2005. Rix was our strong, huge, agressive tap ruckman who would finally take it up to the best rucks in 2006. Gardiner was our superstar ready to burst onto the scene again with support from the best tap ruckman in the AFL Matthew Clarke last year. And now we've got the awsome premiership ruckman Steven King fully fit and firing for the first time since 2002, while Gardiner is completely over his injuries and is ready to make an impact again.

I don't mean to sound like a "doom sayer," I'm just amazed by the people who convince themselves year after year that the unwanted, recycled ruckman that we just got is so much better than all of the others we've had.

[Otiman]

I wish you people would read the heading of the thread. It is supposed to be about todays training, not rubbishing our ruckmen.

Actually it's about the training of 2 days ago.

[CURLY]

On your theory Hird Voss and even Harvs would of been thrown out years ago! All suffered 12month plus injuries at some stage in there careers. Please dont ever become a selector.

None of them have ever missed 12 months through an injury.

Harvey and Hird missed most of one season while Voss had a lingering knee problem that rarely kept him from playing. They are the worst injuries those three have had.

Gardiner has missed 4 years of AFL football through chronic foot problems and debilitating knee injuries. Occasionally he gets himself fit for a while (2006 the main example, when he played about 10 games), but he always breaks down again. In the short periods when he has actually made it onto the ground he has been almost worthless.

If Misson is truly good enough to get Gardiner back in match condition, then we should have a decent backup ruckman for up to 15 games this year. He would be better than Rix, but I doubt he'd be better than Knobel 04 or Ackland 05.

Remember that we have supposedly had "the strongest ruck stocks we've had for years" every year since 2004. Knobel and Koschitzke were going to come of age and dominate in 2004. Ackland was our ready made athletic ruck with good skills in 2005. Rix was our strong, huge, agressive tap ruckman who would finally take it up to the best rucks in 2006. Gardiner was our superstar ready to burst onto the scene again with support from the best tap ruckman in the AFL Matthew Clarke last year. And now we've got the awsome premiership ruckman Steven King fully fit and firing for the first time since 2002, while Gardiner is completely over his injuries and is ready to make an impact again.

I don't mean to sound like a "doom sayer," I'm just amazed by the people who convince themselves year after year that the unwanted, recycled ruckman that we just got is so much better than all of the others we've had.[/quoute)

MSG you dont remember Voss snapping his leg at Subiaco? What about Hirds stress fractures?

No one who is defending Gardener is claiming he will be dominent just simply saying that if Lyon and co beleive he can contribute it carries more weight than a few no nothings announcing hes stuffed and cant even walk.

[rodgerfox]

Just a point worth noting Rodge. I didn't say our ruck division was elite, I said it was stronger than it has been for some years.

If you don't think that King, Gardiner, Rix, Kosi, McEvoy & VanRheenan (R) is stronger than Ackland, Rix, Kosi, Brooks & Blake then I think your being mischeivous with the facts to support your point of view.

I said it was stronger. It has been exceptionally weak for some years, it would be hard NOT to improve. Ergo my statement was correct........

But that's the debate TB.

Gardiner and King are being included as positives - whereas many don't see them as legitimate chances to offer anything.

Personally, I do with King. Not convinced with Gardiner, as I never rated him even when he was supposedly the Polly Farmer.

So that's why it is fair to debate our ruck stocks being better off than before. Remember, people also claimed our ruck stocks were great when Lyon recruited Clarke.

Remember Ackland was top 10 in our B&F in a top 4 season. He had a very good year for us.

[rodgerfox]

So the cunning of Matthews to have his arsenal of 'crash and bash' ruckmen constantly smashing the ball forward, in reality was Clark Keating doing it against Josh Fraser.

I must have missed that year where the Lions had to play against Josh Fraser each and every week..


When did this GroundHog day of a season occur???

My comments were clearly made over a THREE YEAR period where a variety of ruckmen were used...with the stats. You by contrast seem fixated on only one match for some reason. The Lions had DEPTH in their ruck stocks.

As also pointed out above by me.....Keating has been un-available for large chunks of games....which takes us back to the earlier claim that King and M Gardiner would be no good as they would not play every game.

The Lions fllet of injury prone rucks is a clear example that you can have an effective ruck division without each and every one of them having to play every game.

Of course you can.

That's not what I'm debating.

I'm debating your point re Matthew's being a genius for coming up with a strategy for his ruckmen to smash the ball forwards all the time. He apparently based his game plan on this happening.

It's incorrect.

I'm also debating whether or not it was really an effective ruck division, or a weak link which was never exposed due to Brisbane having such an unbeleivably dominant midfield.

The reason for focussing on the GFs, is because as you pointed out above, Keating barely played for 3 years and he was the only ruckman they had capable of the 'crash and bash' (god I hate that term) style game.