Dustin Martin

[markp]

Dragit, the problem is that what you are saying is not much different from saying she wouldn't have had any trouble if she'd stayed at home, or that a girl who gets drunk in public is inviting trouble, and if she then walks home alone even more so. She shouldn't have opened her mouth.

And by stating that you are by default declaring women (or anyone) reasonable targets under certain circumstances, and giving justification for the attack, no matter how much you seek to qualify.

Her culpability for the attack was zero, she did nothing wrong.

Martin should have been put in a cage.

[markp]

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to unwrap and read today's newspapers...

coulda got online last night 'n been told how u are gunna feel today ya slacko
... not a Patriots belt buckle.

I only read the funnies and look at the pictures.

[skeptic]

So did she go to the police?

[dragit]

Dragit, the problem is that what you are saying is not much different from saying she wouldn't have had any trouble if she'd stayed at home, or that a girl who gets drunk in public is inviting trouble, and if she then walks home alone even more so. She shouldn't have opened her mouth.

And by stating that you are by default declaring women (or anyone) reasonable targets under certain circumstances, and giving justification for the attack, no matter how much you seek to qualify.

Her culpability for the attack was zero, she did nothing wrong.

Yeah only it's completely different to what I am saying, she is not at fault, but I feel that she has put herself at risk by approaching this person. Her risk mitigation and his actions are two different things.

Good on her for being brave, I would not go near someone in that state… you just never know how they are going to react. Gender is irrelevant.

[markp]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

[dragit]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

Do you think Martin would have threatened this person if she'd not confronted him about his behavior and threatened to ring his club?

[spert]

Makes you wonder why his teammates would want to play alongside such a weak turd.

[skeptic]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

You're looking for that argument though

No one is arguing that the lady brought it on herself or deserved to be abused etc.

Nobody is saying that. Especially not Dragit.

This is a reality though... By threatening to call the club, she did in essence threaten him in a non-violent way.

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence... But just because there shouldn't be a risk of violence doesn't mean there isn't.

This isn't about blame but you can't argue that she isn't more vulnerable after confronting him then b4. It should have been the staff that dealt with this then the police.

She still has the option of contacting the club the next morning regardless

[Bunk_Moreland]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

You're looking for that argument though

No one is arguing that the lady brought it on herself or deserved to be abused etc.

Nobody is saying that. Especially not Dragit.

This is a reality though... By threatening to call the club, she did in essence threaten him in a non-violent way.

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence... But just because there shouldn't be a risk of violence doesn't mean there isn't.

This isn't about blame but you can't argue that she isn't more vulnerable after confronting him then b4. It should have been the staff that dealt with this then the police.

She still has the option of contacting the club the next morning regardless

Yes how dare this woman attempt to stop a huge fit footballer who was physically threatening her by telling him she knew who he was and that she would ring his employer.

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

[markp]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

Do you think Martin would have threatened this person if she'd not confronted him about his behavior and threatened to ring his club?

What is the point of such a question if not to apportion blame?

[Bunk_Moreland]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

Do you think Martin would have threatened this person if she'd not confronted him about his behavior and threatened to ring his club?

What is the point of such a question if not to apportion blame?

No point. Obviously the bloody women should just cop it and let a drunken footballer threaten her life with impunity.

Why was she out in the first place? Asking for it obviously.

[saynta]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

You're looking for that argument though

No one is arguing that the lady brought it on herself or deserved to be abused etc.

Nobody is saying that. Especially not Dragit.

This is a reality though... By threatening to call the club, she did in essence threaten him in a non-violent way.

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence... But just because there shouldn't be a risk of violence doesn't mean there isn't.

This isn't about blame but you can't argue that she isn't more vulnerable after confronting him then b4. It should have been the staff that dealt with this then the police.

She still has the option of contacting the club the next morning regardless

Yes how dare this woman attempt to stop a huge fit footballer who was physically threatening her by telling him she knew who he was and that she would ring his employer.

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

[markp]

"I'm not apportioning blame, but...."

Hate to think what some might have to say about Jill Meagher's choices.

[skeptic]

"I'm not apportioning blame, but...."

Hate to think what some might have to say about Jill Meagher's choices.

I guess you would tell your daughters to walk down dark alleys at night by themselves because it's their right

[markp]

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence... But just because there shouldn't be a risk of violence doesn't mean there isn't.

Same goes for dressing 'slutty' I suppose.

[dragit]

Jill Meagher

I'm glad we got there finally, bravo.

[dragit]

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

I'm glad I've given you something to get outraged over… my point is completely unrelated to gender, but carry on it's going very well.

[skeptic]

I do find it a little weird that this girl firstly felt compelled to challenge a guy who was clearly intoxicated and aggro, then threaten to ring his club when he reacted angrily. She's also making a pretty big accusation of drug taking suggesting that "he was going to the toilet constantly".... I do feel that some people just love the chance to take down an AFL player.

I think it looks a lot like you're apportioning blame.

You're looking for that argument though

No one is arguing that the lady brought it on herself or deserved to be abused etc.

Nobody is saying that. Especially not Dragit.

This is a reality though... By threatening to call the club, she did in essence threaten him in a non-violent way.

She is entitled to do this without risk of violence... But just because there shouldn't be a risk of violence doesn't mean there isn't.

This isn't about blame but you can't argue that she isn't more vulnerable after confronting him then b4. It should have been the staff that dealt with this then the police.

She still has the option of contacting the club the next morning regardless

Yes how dare this woman attempt to stop a huge fit footballer who was physically threatening her by telling him she knew who he was and that she would ring his employer.

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

You're so insistent of having this argument with yourself.

Nobody is saying what you're counter arguing.

Nobody is arguing that Dusty isn't 100% in the wrong. That part of the debate was never in question.

What this is coming down to is whether the lady's response was a correct.

So here is my questions -
Did her response make her more vulnerable? Yes or no please.

What is wrong with the option of informing the staff or contacting the police?

[markp]

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

I'm glad I've given you something to get outraged over… my point is completely unrelated to gender, but carry on it's going very well.

If it's not about gender why do people (you included) keep bringing up advice for daughters?

And Martin would not have done what he did to a man.

[markp]

Jill Meagher

I'm glad we got there finally, bravo.

And your view on her choice of actions is....?

[dragit]

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

I'm glad I've given you something to get outraged over… my point is completely unrelated to gender, but carry on it's going very well.

If it's not about gender why do people (you included) keep bringing up advice for daughters?

And Martin would not have done what he did to a man.

I don't have any sons, but if I did my advice would be the same… gender irrelevant.

How do you know what Martin's reaction would have been to a man?

Maybe he would have acted out violence rather than threatened it?

[markp]

So here is my questions -
Did her response make her more vulnerable? Yes or no please.

If the woman had stayed at home would she have been assaulted? yes or no please.

[markp]

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

I'm glad I've given you something to get outraged over… my point is completely unrelated to gender, but carry on it's going very well.

If it's not about gender why do people (you included) keep bringing up advice for daughters?

And Martin would not have done what he did to a man.

I don't have any sons, but if I did my advice would be the same… gender irrelevant.

How do you know what Martin's reaction would have been to a man?

Maybe he would have acted out violence rather than threatened it?

The guy is a wanna be bad boy cosseted man-child... he was trying to intimidate her as a woman.

Tell me, what would you have done if you were there and he did that to your daughter (because she dared to open her mouth)?

[skeptic]

I don't know.



Apparently now I'm going to be labelled sexist for saying something is dangerous.

I guess the opinion that a 90yo man with mobility issues shouldn't live in a house by himself that requires him to go up and down flights of stairs everyday makes me ageist too

[skeptic]

The hide of this woman. Why didn't she just cop it, and keep he big trap shut hey? Bloody women, next they will want equal rights of something

I'm glad I've given you something to get outraged over… my point is completely unrelated to gender, but carry on it's going very well.

If it's not about gender why do people (you included) keep bringing up advice for daughters?

And Martin would not have done what he did to a man.

I don't have any sons, but if I did my advice would be the same… gender irrelevant.

How do you know what Martin's reaction would have been to a man?

Maybe he would have acted out violence rather than threatened it?

The guy is a wanna be bad boy cosseted man-child... he was trying to intimidate her as a woman.

Tell me, what would you have done if you were there and he did that to your daughter (because she dared to open her mouth)?

I know this wasn't to me...

But to be honest, if I was with my family and he was a nuisance I would have ignored it then called the club the next day.

If it was not ignorable I would have let the staff know and asked them to deal with it then threaten to leave w/o paying

If the situation looked to escalate to violence, I would have left, or called the police.

Personally I wouldn't seek confrontation with a drunk