Trevor Barker awards deserves it's own thread.

[saynta]

https://www.saints.com.au/news/1017411/ ... ker-awards

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 475d8ec965

"The lofty expectations of St Kilda were far from met this season however the future shines bright after their young superstar took home his second consecutive Trevor Barker Award.
Simeon Thomas-Wilson
and Jay Clark

St Kilda has flagged its strong desire to “regenerate” at this year’s draft after topping up with senior players in recent years.

The Saints have focused heavily on mature-age talent over the past three trade periods picking up experienced players including Daniel Hannebery (2018), Brad Hill, Dougal Howard, Dan Butler and Zak Jones (2019) and last year Brad Crouch (2020).

Co-captain Jack Steele (234 votes) was a runaway winner of the best and fairest award on Friday night, taking out back-to-back Trevor Barker awards by 79 votes ahead of Jack Sinclair (155) and Tim Membrey (133).


Defender Callum Wilkie (124) finished fourth after another solid campaign for the mature-age pickup, while midfield recruits Brad Hill, 28, and Brad Crouch, 27, tied for fifth on 120 votes.

But, after making finals in 2020, the Saints went backwards this season, losing four of their first 11 games by more than 50 points.

It prompted some soul-searching and honest conversation among the players mid-season and, after missing finals, chief executive Matt Finnis on Friday night said the time had come to hit the draft again and focus on young talent.

After taking Max King with pick four in 2019, the Saints haven’t had a selection inside No. 25 over the past two drafts. But the Saints aren’t keen to trade away pick No. 9 this year.

“Obviously we go into the player movement period but in particular I’m looking forward to the draft this year,” Finnis said.

“There is an opportunity for the club to really regenerate and some bring in some talented youth and hopefully even take advantage of the next generation academy really for the first time.

“There might be a couple of players there which will be terrific.”

The Saints’ poor start to the season prompted a critical assessment from president Andrew Bassat who in a letter to members midseason said the manner of some of the defeats was “unacceptable.

On Friday night Bassat said the club failed to meet on-field expectations this year, finishing 10th with a 10-12 record.

“There is no doubt our efforts this year left us with an element of disappointment,” Bassat said.

“We knew this season would test us. Expectations increased in and outside of the club and with that came the need to improve.

“The first half of the year was poor. The confidence of all of us in our on-field future was shaken, not by the regularity of our losses, but by their nature.

“I am today, however, in a much more optimistic frame of mind than I was after the Adelaide loss.”

Consistent midfielder Seb Ross, who has been touted as a potential trade target, backman Dougal Howard, Jimmy Webster and colt spearhead Max King, 21, rounded out the top-10 of the best and fairest count.

Re-signed goalkicker Jack Billings (18 games) missed out on the top-10 along with star ruckman Rowan Marshall who played only 13 games amid some foot issues.

It was an impressive result for Sinclair, 26, who shone in his move to the half back line to make the top-10 of the best and fairest count for the first time in his career.

The reborn playmaker also won the best clubman award, while dual All-Australian Steele claimed the Lenny Hayes club values award and the fans player of the year.

It was the sixth time in Ross’s career that he finished inside the top-10.
VOTES

1. Jack Steele (234 votes)

2. Jack Sinclair (155)

3. Tim Membrey (136)

4. Callum Wilkie (124)

5. Brad Crouch (120)

6. Bradley Hill (120)

7. Seb Ross (117)

8. Dougal Howard (112)

9. Jimmy Webster (105)

10. Max King (101)

Those thinking that the saints will try and trade in an A grade midfielder are going to be disappointed.

[saynta]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ste ... 58sa7.html


"St Kilda co-captain Jack Steele has capped a fine year, claiming his second Trevor Barker award in as many seasons, as the Saints eye a 2022 campaign when club bosses believe their premiership window opens.

Steele, the tough tagger-turned-attacking-midfielder who spent more time up forward late in the season, polled 234 votes in Friday night’s count, finishing 79 votes ahead of runner-up Jack Sinclair. Forward Tim Membrey finished third.
Jack Steele was the Saints’ standout in 2021.

Jack Steele was the Saints’ standout in 2021.Credit:Getty Images

Steele, 25, averaged a career-high 29 disposals, 14 contested possessions, eight tackles and six clearances throughout a season in which the disappointing Saints managed 10 wins and failed to make the finals.

He had less than 25 disposals only four times for the season, while he had 30 possessions or more in 11 matches, including a season-high 37 disposals against Port Adelaide. He is one of 29 Saints to earn multiple Trevor Barker Awards, joining such greats as Robert Harvey, Tony Lockett, Nicky Winmar and Ian Stewart.

Steele joined Jarryn Geary as co-captain this year but could hold the position outright next year.

Coach Brett Ratten is off contract next season, at a time when president Andrew Bassat believes the Saints’ “genuine” premiership window will be open, ensuring the spotlight will be firmly on his club.

As the off-season reshuffle continues, the Saints have secured former Geelong star Corey Enright as an assistant coach. Enright, a triple premiership player, had been an assistant under Chris Scott, with the Cats also making changes after a heavy preliminary final defeat.

“I’m really looking forward to this next chapter with the St Kilda Football Club,” Enright said.
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“I’m proud of what I learned throughout my time at the Cats and am thankful for all the opportunities they’ve given me. However, I’m looking forward to a new challenge.

“I believe the Saints have a really exciting young group and I can’t wait to get to work.”

Enright is the second recent appointment, joining head of high performance and conditioning, Nick Walsh. The Saints have turned their focus to development through the pre-season. and will look to secure a full-time head of development."

[Ghost Like]

Congratulations to Captain Jack Steele & all our Top 10 B&F finishers.

In particular Jack Sinclair. I remember writing here at some point that my biggest frustration with Sinclair was not being able to define what position he plays. 2021 has been his awakening, the HBF is his position. He has incredible courage to go with excellent skills and smart decision making. His 2021 is a better version of Caleb Daniel who I admire.

You have to love seeing players like Sinclair & Webster being rewarded for effort and faith.

Special mention for Ross & Hill, two maligned players who polarise this forum but do what is right by the coaches and team mates.

[bangaulegend]

Well done both Jacks IMO they were clearly the stand out performers for the year. Congrats to all the top 10 finishers (great to see Jimmy make it) & also congrats to Saynta for picking the top 10 finishers I only got 8.

[Sainter_Dad]

LOL @ The Trevor Barker Award - I love that Steele won - but I hate that it awards mediocrity:

If it is the same voting as was historical:

Five coaches (Senior Coach plus 4x Assistant Coaches) will vote in each match.
Not all players need to be given a vote
A poor result may see only 3-4 players receive votes, a strong result might see 15-16 players
Coaches to vote confidentially, ie. not confer with each other
Each player can receive votes as follows:
- 1 vote: played role effectively (but should not be used as an encouragement reward)
- 2 votes: among the best for St Kilda in this game
- 3 votes: one, two or very occasionally, three players who are deemed the very best on ground
- 4 votes: an exceptionally outstanding game, very rarely given (say 10+ goals, or 45+ possessions)

So - If a player plays 22 games and 'played his role effectively' the base he should get is 5 x 1 x 22 = 110

So - if you got less than 110 and played 22 games you should look at yourself.

Position	Player	Votes	Games	Average
1	Jack Steele	234	22	2.1
2	Jack Sinclair	155	21	1.5
3	Tim Membrey	136	21	1.3
4	Callum Wilkie	124	22	1.1
5	Brad Crouch	120	20	1.2
5	Bradley Hill	120	22	1.1
7	Seb Ross	117	20	1.2
8	Dougal Howard	112	21	1.1
9	Jimmy Webster	105	20	1.1
10	Max King	101	20	1

So mostly our top 10 [with the exception of Captain Jack] 'Played their role effectively'

[saynta]

Congratulations to Captain Jack Steele & all our Top 10 B&F finishers.

In particular Jack Sinclair. I remember writing here at some point that my biggest frustration with Sinclair was not being able to define what position he plays. 2021 has been his awakening, the HBF is his position. He has incredible courage to go with excellent skills and smart decision making. His 2021 is a better version of Caleb Daniel who I admire.

You have to love seeing players like Sinclair & Webster being rewarded for effort and faith.

Special mention for Ross & Hill, two maligned players who polarise this forum but do what is right by the coaches and team mates.

Excellent post.

Very much doubt that Hind will finish top 2 in his club's best and fairest. Top 10 maybe.

[Gershwin]

LOL @ The Trevor Barker Award - I love that Steele won - but I hate that it awards mediocrity:

If it is the same voting as was historical:

Five coaches (Senior Coach plus 4x Assistant Coaches) will vote in each match.
Not all players need to be given a vote
A poor result may see only 3-4 players receive votes, a strong result might see 15-16 players
Coaches to vote confidentially, ie. not confer with each other
Each player can receive votes as follows:
- 1 vote: played role effectively (but should not be used as an encouragement reward)
- 2 votes: among the best for St Kilda in this game
- 3 votes: one, two or very occasionally, three players who are deemed the very best on ground
- 4 votes: an exceptionally outstanding game, very rarely given (say 10+ goals, or 45+ possessions)

So - If a player plays 22 games and 'played his role effectively' the base he should get is 5 x 1 x 22 = 110

So - if you got less than 110 and played 22 games you should look at yourself.

Position	Player	Votes	Games	Average
1	Jack Steele	234	22	2.1
2	Jack Sinclair	155	21	1.5
3	Tim Membrey	136	21	1.3
4	Callum Wilkie	124	22	1.1
5	Brad Crouch	120	20	1.2
5	Bradley Hill	120	22	1.1
7	Seb Ross	117	20	1.2
8	Dougal Howard	112	21	1.1
9	Jimmy Webster	105	20	1.1
10	Max King	101	20	1

So mostly our top 10 [with the exception of Captain Jack] 'Played their role effectively'

Interesting analysis.

I am trying to track down the 11 - 20 finishers but with no success to do a similar analysis. If anyone can find them it would be much appreciated.

[Sainter_Dad]

LOL @ The Trevor Barker Award - I love that Steele won - but I hate that it awards mediocrity:

If it is the same voting as was historical:

Five coaches (Senior Coach plus 4x Assistant Coaches) will vote in each match.
Not all players need to be given a vote
A poor result may see only 3-4 players receive votes, a strong result might see 15-16 players
Coaches to vote confidentially, ie. not confer with each other
Each player can receive votes as follows:
- 1 vote: played role effectively (but should not be used as an encouragement reward)
- 2 votes: among the best for St Kilda in this game
- 3 votes: one, two or very occasionally, three players who are deemed the very best on ground
- 4 votes: an exceptionally outstanding game, very rarely given (say 10+ goals, or 45+ possessions)

So - If a player plays 22 games and 'played his role effectively' the base he should get is 5 x 1 x 22 = 110

So - if you got less than 110 and played 22 games you should look at yourself.

Position	Player	Votes	Games	Average
1	Jack Steele	234	22	2.1
2	Jack Sinclair	155	21	1.5
3	Tim Membrey	136	21	1.3
4	Callum Wilkie	124	22	1.1
5	Brad Crouch	120	20	1.2
5	Bradley Hill	120	22	1.1
7	Seb Ross	117	20	1.2
8	Dougal Howard	112	21	1.1
9	Jimmy Webster	105	20	1.1
10	Max King	101	20	1

So mostly our top 10 [with the exception of Captain Jack] 'Played their role effectively'

Interesting analysis.

I am trying to track down the 11 - 20 finishers but with no success to do a similar analysis. If anyone can find them it would be much appreciated.

Don't - it would be depressing - anyone who averages less than 1 points per game played (multiplied by 5 for the number of voters) DID NOT EVEN PLAY THEIR ROLE EFFECTIVELY

[kosifantutti]

LOL @ The Trevor Barker Award - I love that Steele won - but I hate that it awards mediocrity:

If it is the same voting as was historical:

Five coaches (Senior Coach plus 4x Assistant Coaches) will vote in each match.
Not all players need to be given a vote
A poor result may see only 3-4 players receive votes, a strong result might see 15-16 players
Coaches to vote confidentially, ie. not confer with each other
Each player can receive votes as follows:
- 1 vote: played role effectively (but should not be used as an encouragement reward)
- 2 votes: among the best for St Kilda in this game
- 3 votes: one, two or very occasionally, three players who are deemed the very best on ground
- 4 votes: an exceptionally outstanding game, very rarely given (say 10+ goals, or 45+ possessions)

So - If a player plays 22 games and 'played his role effectively' the base he should get is 5 x 1 x 22 = 110

So - if you got less than 110 and played 22 games you should look at yourself.

Position	Player	Votes	Games	Average
1	Jack Steele	234	22	2.1
2	Jack Sinclair	155	21	1.5
3	Tim Membrey	136	21	1.3
4	Callum Wilkie	124	22	1.1
5	Brad Crouch	120	20	1.2
5	Bradley Hill	120	22	1.1
7	Seb Ross	117	20	1.2
8	Dougal Howard	112	21	1.1
9	Jimmy Webster	105	20	1.1
10	Max King	101	20	1

So mostly our top 10 [with the exception of Captain Jack] 'Played their role effectively'

That voting system is what was described to some of the sponsors last night by Gears.

We had 11 players playing 20+ games. Only Butler missed the top 10.

[Sainter_Dad]

That voting system is what was described to some of the sponsors last night by Gears.

We had 11 players playing 20+ games. Only Butler missed the top 10.

I prefer our system - rewards the Best on Ground - not just the 'adequate' with occasional spots of brilliance (Captain Jack excluded)

[Ghost Like]

That voting system is what was described to some of the sponsors last night by Gears.

We had 11 players playing 20+ games. Only Butler missed the top 10.

I prefer our system - rewards the Best on Ground - not just the 'adequate' with occasional spots of brilliance (Captain Jack excluded)

I'm beginning to see your point SD. We have a vanilla voting system for the TB that does not encourage brilliance or its attempt. It encourages participation.

Surely that kind of encouragement can be done in other ways. Perhaps it's simply rewarded by getting a game the following week for the adequate, for the role players.

Do you know if it's always been this way?

[Sainter_Dad]

That voting system is what was described to some of the sponsors last night by Gears.

We had 11 players playing 20+ games. Only Butler missed the top 10.

I prefer our system - rewards the Best on Ground - not just the 'adequate' with occasional spots of brilliance (Captain Jack excluded)

I'm beginning to see your point SD. We have a vanilla voting system for the TB that does not encourage brilliance or its attempt. It encourages participation.

Surely that kind of encouragement can be done in other ways. Perhaps it's simply rewarded by getting a game the following week for the adequate, for the role players.

Do you know if it's always been this way?

At least since 2015 - I mean the right guy won it - and also last year - and most years I would not argue with the votes (one year I thought someone was robbed - but I won't open that thread again)

I would be seriously interested if anyone else rewards 'do your job' and I firmly believe that is why we languish as also rans.

If every player is aware that if they 'do their job' they get a vote then why strive for excellence - maybe that is what struck some high priced recruits - come to St Kilda and just do what you are asked and you will poll on the B&F

Imagine if the Brownlow rewarded - Do you job???

Imagine going to work at McDonalds and getting a vote as employee of the month for NOT spitting in peoples burgers???

So what constitutes a game that you don't get a vote - and why do so many of our player not get them???

It is kind of as I explain to my son - think of Average intelligence (a scary thought nowadays) and then realise that half the population are dumber than that???

WE SHOULD TAKE A STAND AND NOT REWARD MEDIOCRITY.

Expect Brilliance and we may get it.

[Toy Saint]

Obviously the coaches just don't rate Luke Dunstan

[shanegrambeau]

How many points Luke Dunstan?

[saynta]

Obviously the coaches just don't rate Luke Dunstan

He just didn't play enough games FFS.

[saynta]

Obviously the coaches just don't rate Luke Dunstan

He just didn't play enough games FFS.

[Gershwin]

LOL @ The Trevor Barker Award - I love that Steele won - but I hate that it awards mediocrity:

If it is the same voting as was historical:

Five coaches (Senior Coach plus 4x Assistant Coaches) will vote in each match.
Not all players need to be given a vote
A poor result may see only 3-4 players receive votes, a strong result might see 15-16 players
Coaches to vote confidentially, ie. not confer with each other
Each player can receive votes as follows:
- 1 vote: played role effectively (but should not be used as an encouragement reward)
- 2 votes: among the best for St Kilda in this game
- 3 votes: one, two or very occasionally, three players who are deemed the very best on ground
- 4 votes: an exceptionally outstanding game, very rarely given (say 10+ goals, or 45+ possessions)

So - If a player plays 22 games and 'played his role effectively' the base he should get is 5 x 1 x 22 = 110

So - if you got less than 110 and played 22 games you should look at yourself.

Position	Player	Votes	Games	Average
1	Jack Steele	234	22	2.1
2	Jack Sinclair	155	21	1.5
3	Tim Membrey	136	21	1.3
4	Callum Wilkie	124	22	1.1
5	Brad Crouch	120	20	1.2
5	Bradley Hill	120	22	1.1
7	Seb Ross	117	20	1.2
8	Dougal Howard	112	21	1.1
9	Jimmy Webster	105	20	1.1
10	Max King	101	20	1

So mostly our top 10 [with the exception of Captain Jack] 'Played their role effectively'

Interesting analysis.

I am trying to track down the 11 - 20 finishers but with no success to do a similar analysis. If anyone can find them it would be much appreciated.

Don't - it would be depressing - anyone who averages less than 1 points per game played (multiplied by 5 for the number of voters) DID NOT EVEN PLAY THEIR ROLE EFFECTIVELY

I can handle depressing. I need to see the facts.

[shanegrambeau]

Obviously the coaches just don't rate Luke Dunstan

He just didn't play enough games FFS.

Hey, that’s, BS.. we wanna know how many points he got based on the games he played. Fair enough question…He was dropped ultimately, yet he was decent , more than…for a while..

[Trev from the Bush]

Really pleased that Tim Membrey was recognized for his efforts by finishing 3rd. When you read posts on this forum suggesting he hasn't kicked enough goals, or is not playing well, you tend to wonder what station they are watching on their radio. What I have noticed, particularly under Ratten, is he is no longer just a forward target. He is not, and will never be, another Nick Riewoldt but is having a fair crack at replicating the great one. His aerobic capacity has improved out of sight as has his ability to motor all oer the ground. He can drop back behind the play, clear the ball then put himself in the contest in our forward 50. A rare talent.

Well done Tim, obviously your 1 game development at the Swans has been huge for the Saints. We are no good at developing young players, if you believe the media.

[Scollop]

Well done to our recruiters and well done Tim for listening and learning and taking on the traits of your former club. They are the standard that we need to aspire to if we want to emulate their success and their ability to remain a finals contender over such an extended period

From wikipedia: Sydney is one of the most consistent AFL clubs of the modern era, failing to make the finals in only five seasons since 1995, playing the most finals matches and boasting a finals winning record of over 50% in the same period. Since 2000 they’ve also won the second most matches overall with Geelong coming in at number 1.

[George27]

That voting system is what was described to some of the sponsors last night by Gears.

We had 11 players playing 20+ games. Only Butler missed the top 10.

I prefer our system - rewards the Best on Ground - not just the 'adequate' with occasional spots of brilliance (Captain Jack excluded)

I agree. No need for you to change our system , Sainter Dad !

[bangaulegend]

Membrey has been a god send his work ethic & professionalism has to acknowledged & a top 3 finish in the B&F is a real credit to him . Hopefully it rubs off on some of younger brigade to show what reward for effort really does pay off . Well Tim

[Sainter_Dad]

Really pleased that Tim Membrey was recognized for his efforts by finishing 3rd. When you read posts on this forum suggesting he hasn't kicked enough goals, or is not playing well, you tend to wonder what station they are watching on their radio. What I have noticed, particularly under Ratten, is he is no longer just a forward target. He is not, and will never be, another Nick Riewoldt but is having a fair crack at replicating the great one. His aerobic capacity has improved out of sight as has his ability to motor all oer the ground. He can drop back behind the play, clear the ball then put himself in the contest in our forward 50. A rare talent.

Well done Tim, obviously your 1 game development at the Swans has been huge for the Saints. We are no good at developing young players, if you believe the media.

Tim raised his Average Possessions per Game as this year he spent the Red Time in each quarter shoring up the back line - and I think he has been fantastic in the role

[Sainter_Dad]

Accidently journeyed over to BF - oops - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ ... 033/page-7

Half way down the page the conversation starts about Captain Jack being on the Nose Beers.

And some of you guys want Saintsational to 'relax' the rules????