Is Kosi a game breaker? We need another full forward.

[brown-coat]

A lot of people here have penciled him in for full forward next year.

He's got a great mark and loads of courage but i don't think he has that enigmatic quality that can smash games wide open. Gehrig, Hall, Tredrea all have that quality. Full forward smarts. Unpredictability. Gehrig is deceptively fast, Hall never gets pinged for holding the ball while bustling through 10 oncoming players, Tredrea has great skills and is 'tuff'. All of these players are quite maneuverable.

Kosi ain't.

Now before you label me a wanker and try and ban me again. Just think about it.

I'm thinking about Kosi in the context of our relatively slow midfield. We have no Judd type player who can burst from packs and kick to a leading full forward. Our full forward (Gehrig) used his sheer football genius to be a great player. He didn't solely rely on precision passes from our midfield. He played on at critical times, used his speed, and of course used his immense strength. Even the act of a precision pass requires speed from the full forward. Something Kosi doesn't have.

Gehrig broke games open, tore the guts out of opposition teams.

Kosi will rely on precision passes. Yes Kosi has a good mark, but it's wishful thinking to believe we can just bomb long into the forwardline and he'll courageously fly over umpteen opposition players and grab the ball. He's slow. He won't be able to do those Gehrig/Tredrea/Hall play on from a mark.

In the modern game i can't quite see Kosi being an effective full forward. Sure he had a good game against west coast this year.

So basically i think he's too slow and not maneuverable and not unpredictable enough to be a consistently damaging full forward.

We need another solution.

Don't point me to the west coast example this year of how he is such a great full forward. It was one game.

[HSVKing]

That's what I've said...

And I suggested we chase a real Full Forward like Fevola if he becomes available...

But seems as though most people on here are happy to play without a genuine FF and myself and others get blasted for even suggesting his name.

Honestly... I'd like to know who some people would suggest we use as Full Forward next season?

[BackFromUSA]

Kosi is the best contested mark in the league ... takes more pack marks than anyone ... get it in quick to Kosi and he can take on 2 or 3 and still win more than 50% ... as a full forward he wins his own ball in the air and on the ground and is far from slow for a 197cm player ...

the only issue is whether Kosi is going to resisit Dick Pratt's cheque book ... the numbers are going up and they are testing his loyalty ...

i just want Kosi signed and then we can worry about where to play him

[HSVKing]

i just want Kosi signed and then we can worry about where to play him

Well where do you want him to play... He has signed apparently

[brown-coat]

Getting it in quick is the issue. We're not so great at it.

We need a full forward with the speed and a smart mind to account for our style of delivery. Gehrig was perfect. Kosi is going to have issues i think.

[BackFromUSA]

have you ever thought that maybe we didn't go long to the danger zone because Gehrig was poor at contesting in the air and was an easy pick off and rebound

with kosi if he doesnt grab it ... it will spill ... need 2 crumbers at his feet and you have the ideal set up for moving the ball deep and long ...

[brown-coat]

If you get some champion crumbers it might work.

Milne and recruit someone like Russel Robertson and you create a lethal area high and low.

Just an idea.

[maverick]

That's what I've said...

And I suggested we chase a real Full Forward like Fevola if he becomes available...

But seems as though most people on here are happy to play without a genuine FF and myself and others get blasted for even suggesting his name.

Honestly... I'd like to know who some people would suggest we use as Full Forward next season?

Fergus Watts - Where else can he play? If he's not up to it, cut him, otherwise give him a go I reckon.

Kosi for mine is the classic Centre forward, like Tredrea in his prime. Riewoldt is our floater, can be FF one minute, CHF the next....

[HSVKing]

That's what I've said...

And I suggested we chase a real Full Forward like Fevola if he becomes available...

But seems as though most people on here are happy to play without a genuine FF and myself and others get blasted for even suggesting his name.

Honestly... I'd like to know who some people would suggest we use as Full Forward next season?

Fergus Watts - Where else can he play? If he's not up to it, cut him, otherwise give him a go I reckon.

Kosi for mine is the classic Centre forward, like Tredrea in his prime. Riewoldt is our floater, can be FF one minute, CHF the next....

Don't think Fergus is big and strong enough yet. A couple of years time maybe yes.

[Leo.J]

Didn't we get a look at next years set up against WC over at Subi?

Wasn't that what RL said, "a look at the future"?

Kosi and Roo beat Glass and Hunter that Day, 2 very handy defenders.

Hamill and Gardiner would be an added bonus if they are ever available, Brooks and Watts may get a chance to play as the 3rd key forward, however Roo and Kosi works well also.

[saintsRrising]

You have Roo...and Kosi...both quite different players.

The 2 can alternate between CHF and FF.....move them around to get the best match up.....and to exploit the flow of the game.

[To the top]

One thing is for certain, we need someone with size.

With only Gardiner, Rix, Kosi, Brooks and Watts on our list over 196cm, the options are limited.

Gardiner will be required to ruck (touch wood!), Rix can not play apart from as a knock ruckman (where he does not have a jump and therefore does not have the height), Kosi is too valuable to park that far off the contest for the game - has to be further up the ground - which leaves Watts and Brooks.

Roo could do the job, but he, like Kosi, is needed further up the ground.

Gehrig indicated that the days of a one position player were gone - just too difficult in today's game.

That would tell against Watts unless he displays a sensational pre-season.

Which leaves Brooks standing, because he can join in the rotations which would see Roo and Kosi also floating to the FF line.

We are not going to replace Gehrig - and his like may not be seen again until Kosi and Roo get to 30 years plus and do a Quinlan.

Until then, we have the rotations of Kosi, Roo, Brooks and maybe Watts - but Watts would be more likely at CHF given a full recovery from the horrific ankle break he had.

If Watts is to come into the equation he has to also be able to hold down CHF.

And an "off hands" player, Milne ain't - so there will be questions there.

Because we will need "off hands" support.

[Teflon]

have you ever thought that maybe we didn't go long to the danger zone because Gehrig was poor at contesting in the air and was an easy pick off and rebound

with kosi if he doesnt grab it ... it will spill ... need 2 crumbers at his feet and you have the ideal set up for moving the ball deep and long ...

Well put.

Match winners invariably take big contested grabs - be it Johnathon Browne OR Wayne Carey ....they smash packs and hold contested grabs. Kosi ABSOLUTELY has thast ability.

Dick Pratt is phlem.

[bigcarl]

kosi, unlike roo or even fraser, has the ability to bust open the flood with big contested grabs.

if he can learn to lead and present more often he's a potential match-winning full-forward.

we're in the lucky position of having roo who can also play that position well.

all we need to do now is find a ruckman to allow kosi to play forward

[Teflon]

Carl - first official post of your I 100% agree with.

Now....quetion time:

Say Swans will do a deal for Jolly...but they aint taking Brooks or Phil Raymond....they want something decent as we are getting a good ruckman in his prime......who you gonna give????

[bigcarl]

You have Roo...and Kosi...both quite different players. The 2 can alternate between CHF and FF.....move them around to get the best match up.....and to exploit the flow of the game.

agree. gives us both a mobile leading option and a bloke who can take big contested grabs. if that doesn't get around the flooding tactics employed successfully against us so often then i don't know what will. imo two key forwards that will be the envy of the competition and don't be afraid to swap them around

all we need is a capable ruckman and some midfielders who can run all day to replace our ageing champ harvs.

I'm hoping gardiner can stand up and brooks gets a reprieve. fraser retiring may have inadvertently opened up a spot for brooks, who must be told it is now or never.

[bigcarl]

Carl - first official post of your I 100% agree with.

Now....quetion time:

Say Swans will do a deal for Jolly...but they aint taking Brooks or Phil Raymond....they want something decent as we are getting a good ruckman in his prime......who you gonna give????

i'd be loathe to give up goose, if that's what you're driving at. how old is jolly and how good is he?

[Teflon]

Carl - first official post of your I 100% agree with.

Now....quetion time:

Say Swans will do a deal for Jolly...but they aint taking Brooks or Phil Raymond....they want something decent as we are getting a good ruckman in his prime......who you gonna give????

i'd be loathe to give up goose, if that's what you're driving at. how old is jolly and how good is he?

Thats the job Carl........you gotta give somwething to get.

Jolly is 26 - has at least 5 yrs in him and would be top 5 ruckman in league.

So what r u gonna give up Carl??? cmon...off the fence...

[bigcarl]

Carl - first official post of your I 100% agree with.

Now....quetion time:

Say Swans will do a deal for Jolly...but they aint taking Brooks or Phil Raymond....they want something decent as we are getting a good ruckman in his prime......who you gonna give????

i'd be loathe to give up goose, if that's what you're driving at. how old is jolly and how good is he?

Thats the job Carl........you gotta give somwething to get.

Jolly is 26 - has at least 5 yrs in him and would be top 5 ruckman in league.

So what r u gonna give up Carl??? cmon...off the fence...

i don't suppose they'd take back RL

[Teflon]

Carl - first official post of your I 100% agree with.

Now....quetion time:

Say Swans will do a deal for Jolly...but they aint taking Brooks or Phil Raymond....they want something decent as we are getting a good ruckman in his prime......who you gonna give????

i'd be loathe to give up goose, if that's what you're driving at. how old is jolly and how good is he?

Thats the job Carl........you gotta give somwething to get.

Jolly is 26 - has at least 5 yrs in him and would be top 5 ruckman in league.

So what r u gonna give up Carl??? cmon...off the fence...

i don't suppose they'd take back RL

Nice one Carl but only in a straight swap for Roos....

But alas.....ask a hard quetion...still get no answer....

[SaintWodonga]

Don't think Fergus is big and strong enough yet. A couple of years time maybe yes.

Yeah, try saying the same thing about Westoff from Port...

He doesn't seem big and strong enough, yet he his killing them!

[bigcarl]

But alas ... ask a hard quetion ... still get no answer ...

i'd like to give you an answer but i'll admit I don't know enough about jolly. also if he's as good as you say he is why is he on the outer up there?

you're obviously thinking maguire. i hope that doesn't happen. Though he was nowhere near his best in the back half of the season I thought it significant that we lost only three matches with him back in the side. he holds that backline together and will only get better as he recovers from that awful broken leg.

goose is a good player, potentially a great player at full confidence. kosi's had confidence shown in him to come back from crippling injuries. i think we deserve to give goose the same courtesy

throw up some other possibilities.

[Teflon]

But alas ... ask a hard quetion ... still get no answer ...

i'd like to give you an answer but i'll admit I don't know enough about jolly. also if he's as good as you say he is why is he on the outer up there?

you're obviously thinking maguire. i hope that doesn't happen. Though he was nowhere near his best in the back half of the season I thought it significant that we lost only three matches with him back in the side. he holds that backline together and will only get better as he recovers from that awful broken leg.

throw up some other possibilities.

Carl? very simple question man!

Jolly aint on the "outer" at all - they are desperate to keep him he has FAMILY in Melb....

Cmon lets have it!!..I wont tell anyone you made the tough call.

Interesting listening to Port CEO on radio tonight talking about how they are prepared to make tough decisions on players......IMO St Kilda has a history of putting EVERY player on a pedestal.........AND NOT being able to make an objective tough call to get the necessary skills compliment for the team that DOES have obvious holes (eg) ruckman, midfielders, another defender.

[bigcarl]

Cmon lets have it!!..I wont tell anyone you made the tough call. Interesting listening to Port CEO on radio tonight talking about how they are prepared to make tough decisions on players......IMO St Kilda has a history of putting EVERY player on a pedestal.........AND NOT being able to make an objective tough call to get the necessary skills compliment for the team that DOES have obvious holes (eg) ruckman, midfielders, another defender.

since you're so good at tough calls, you name the swap you think would be acceptable. i obviously hit the nail on the head when i said you think goose, didn't i!

[HSVKing]

Don't think Fergus is big and strong enough yet. A couple of years time maybe yes.

Yeah, try saying the same thing about Westoff from Port...

He doesn't seem big and strong enough, yet he his killing them!

Maybe... But what position is he playing?

The point I'm trying to make is that we need a genuine full forward. If westhoff was the key forward tonight, the eagles backline would have destroyed him. But because there were other forwards they have to concentrate on he doesn't get the #1 backman.

When you have a genuine FF such as fevola, hall, brown, mooney, lloyd etc the #1 defender will always go to them. If the #1 goes to the FF, then the 2nd best is stuck on Roo, 3rd on Kosi etc etc. Without them the best goes to Roo, 2nd Kosi and so on.

Gehrig was that player, but we don't have someone to take that position he played. Riewoldt is a CHF/Winger, Kosi is a Ruck/Resting Forward/Covering Back.

We don't want to go into the season with no real FF, then lose our ruckmen, have Kosi rucking every game, Roo at CHF, and then relying on the likes of Watts having to take the second best backman (as the best would then move to Roo) and being beaten hands down.