Pick 9.....who will it be...

[saintsRrising]

Well firstly the big proviso that I have seen very little of any of the kids play.......so the following is based upon the observations of others and in particular a number of BigFooty Posters..

However having said that it is still a lot of fun to ponder on our draft selections.

So with our first pick 9...who will it be????

Well as we after 8 other picks a lot will depend on those 8 picks.


But ignoring players who are not likely to drop to 9 such as Kruezer, Palmer, Morton, Cotchin....


I would tend to favour that the Saints would take the midfielders of Rioli or Ebert if they are still available...

If both are gone then it mostt likely will mean that there is a good future key defender cum FB on offer.

I originally thought Rance but have noted that one BigFooty poster has stated that the Saints were the only club NOT to interview him. If true this is interesting...it could flag that the Saints are not after a key defender at 9 ...or it could mean that they don't rate im....or perhaps they were just laying a smoke screen with our likely first pick.


Rance is favoured by many though...but if not Rance,,,,then who would you take as a possible future FB??

Well I think that Gourdis is a likely prospect.

He is a nice height for a modern full back....and has very good pace and a handy vertical leap. As a good athlete with these qualities he has the goods to be developed into a good full back...and an attacking running full back at that.


From Quigley at BigFooty..(whi has him going at Pick 13)

– David Gourdis – DOB 24/11/89 Ht 193 Wt 88


The West Coast I think will be more than happy to take Gourdis at 13. Their key positions have not been a strength of their team but after last year and this things could be beginning to change. Although things have changed a little over the last couple of years I still think that as a general rule most talented talls usually play in the forward line as a junior and that teams should stock up on tall forwards even if you have a need at the back. Gourdis although currently predominantly a forward could end up playing at either end for the West Coast. The West Coast would also be giving serious consideration to Henderson and Myers if available and perhaps Notte.

Gourdis played some great football at HF for WA at the championships and when this is combined with his stunning results from camp you have one of the most intriguing prospects going around. He lit up Canberra this year when he broke the vertical jump record (81cm), won the 20 metre sprint with a great time (2.83) and was sixth in the repeat 30 metre sprints (24.22). From a key position prospect they make people sit up and pay attention but when you consider that he can actually play as well teams start to salivate and someone might well jump the gun and take him very early.

He has legitimate key position height and looks like he has a body type that will fill out well and he certainly has the pace to create separation or close a man down depending on what end he is playing. He would be close to the best contested and pack mark at the championships this year and he has very soft hands and great timing on his jumps. One thing which does need to be ironed out is where he takes his marks. At the moment when he is up forward he seems to be shepherded too easily to the boundary or outside the 50 and as a result he is left with extremely difficult shots on goal. At the Champs he didn’t get many shots at goal despite the number of marks he had. One thing which he does very well is after a mark, get back to his feet quickly and look for his options. He has good awareness and if an option is open he will look to take it quickly. He has good vision and will look to pick out the right target but at the moment his disposal lets him down too often. His kicking is somewhat erratic and he doesn’t seem to have great feel on his passes.

Given the package though he is an interesting prospect and someone will take him pretty high figuring they can iron out the disposal issues. He seems to have a good attitude and looking at him giving directions on the field and in the huddles at the Champs he seemed like a leader of the forward unit.



Now some have us slotted in for McEvoy...and yes he is not a bad ruckman and arguably the best ruck that may be available at 9...but I have a feeling that while Ross has said he will "grow our own ruckmen" that Ross is a coach who is very much mindful of wanting success in the next season or two and will therefore prefer a No 9 selection that will be useful over the next year or two..rather than a young ruckmen who will hardly been seen in the seniors for several years. I would therefore expect the ruckmen to come from our picks 42 or 58...



So who is your pick for No 9????

[borderbarry]

I agree with SaintsRrising on McEvoy, plus he is being touted as more of a KPP forward than a ruckman at the moment, we have enough of them.
I would think David Myers, 190cm, defender who can play on ball, would come into consideration as well. But my first choice would be Riolli. Apparently his ground play is brilliant.
Most of the ruckmen in the draft will still be available at pick 42.

[saintsRrising]

Yes I did think of Myers too who has a big wrap.......but in the end I considered that we currently have quite a number of players of his height that can play as a tallish flanker....but we lack players who can play as a genuine key back (FB and CHB). If Max was younger and had not been plagued with soft tissue problems od late I would be less concerned....but will be almost 32 by the start of 2008....and his injury rate remains unceratain.

Sam Fisher, BJ, Dempster, Raph Clarke can all play as a tallish HBF/BP.....as indeed can Max or Goose.

Sam can pinch hit as a key back....but is better value and more damaging on a flank.

In addition the slightly smaller Fergison 187 and Gwilt 188 struggle to break into the team.....and the injured Attard at 187 will be effectively a new recruit in 2009 after being off for 2008 with his injury.


So for mine this has tipped the balance of two players who will be thereabouts in the draft from Myers to Gourdis (or Rance, 194cm and 89 kg)) both of whom should be capable ofa key back role.

Myers is 190 and 85kg....so Gourdis at 193 and 88 is just that little bit bigger (and 5 months younger) than Myers and from reports a bit more athletic which should give him the potential to becomea FB or CHB.

[Oh When the Saints]

From what I've read, Rance is more highly rated amongst phantom drafters/interested observers than he will be clubs, as he has a few weaknesses.

Were we to look at a full-back with #9, Gourdis sounds a better option.


But my preference is for a midfielder or Rioli with pick #9.

Ebert, Masten, Cotchin, Palmer, Myers, Morton and Grimes have all been touted as top 10 prospects at different stages.

That's 8 midfielders - so two of those at least will be available with pick #9.


From what I've read, Myers would be an excellent pickup, although some have tipped he could go has high as the top 5. He will end up as a midfielder at AFL level.

St Kilda have spoken to Rioli the most of any club, and I have a strong feeeling that he will be our target with pick #9.

Saints have shown significant interest in Cyril Rioli and David Myers while one would think they would be keen on Ben McEvoy if he lasted until this selection. But at this stage Rioli looks a good bet because of the pace, skill and goal kicking he will add to the Saints midfield in the future. He has been a very popular player with only two clubs choosing not to speak to him at the draft camp (Brisbane and Fremantle) while the Crows have shown the most interest followed by the Saints. There is a train of thought that he could slide because of a fear that he might only end up a forward pocket but a player of his pace and skill are few and far between in this draft. Brad Ebert will probably be in their thoughts as well. If the Saints decide to go for all then they have been linked strongly to Henderson and Gourdis.

That's from one of the more astute draft watchers on BF.

Also on Rioli:

I have been on the Rioli bandwagon for a while and rate him very highly. He has had injury problems for much of the year and if he had been fit and in shape I feel confident that a lot more people would have been predicting him to go in the top 5. He quite simply can do it all and could easily be the best player to come out of this draft. It is important that he gets his body sorted out and that teams get the sense that he is committed to doing what it takes to succeed. If those things are taken care of look out someone will have a champion player on their hands.

I expect him to be developed much in the way that Gary Ablett has been for Geelong in that he will start his career in the forward line before moving into the midfield as he gets more miles in his legs. I think the comparison with G Ablett is a really good one and there is a lot of similarities in the way that he plays. He has a fantastic awareness around goals and has the ability to read plays a couple of steps ahead and be in the right position to take advantage of it. He also has the capacity to do the spectacular more regularly than he should be able to and this is not just for himself but also in creating opportunities for others. The other similarity is his balance and the way that both Ablett and Rioli seem to be able to be able to dance around in traffic waiting for an option to open up when most other players would be getting tackled.

He has great vision and player awareness and a fantastic flat, long left foot kick that allows him to pick out his man. He also has a great long handball in his bag of tricks which he occasionally brings out as well. It is also worth noting that he works well at full pace and in tight situations and even in those situations he seems to take the right option. Up forward he is a goal scorer who is good on the lead as well as roving packs and his is a dead-eye shot for goal – maybe not Maric like but up there with anyone else in this draft.

He is short for a modern footballer but is deceptively strong. He has good pace and is great as a chase down and tackle forward. It is worth noting that despite being nowhere near fully fit he was 3rd in the repeat 30 metre sprints at camp. As mentioned he has had injury problems and he will need to be nursed somewhat whilst he does much needed work improving his endurance.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

While my first reaction is that I think we're looking at McEvoy, the main thing the BF board has done for me is highlight how little I know about these draftees.

They've put me right off Rance. IMO drafting aiming at a FB would be a mistake anyhow, I actually think we'll be fine as Fisher and Maguire up their games and experience, one of them will take up the position while someone new comes in as 3rd tall/sweeper. While especially with KPP I believe you're really drafting towards the player the kid will be at 25, I think the most important aspect of playing defense well is experience, and doubt a draftee from '07 will be cracking our backline as a regular for at least 2 seasons.

Reading those boards has made me wonder which mid is going to drop though... on a pure draft the most talented available, Rioli and Ebert would probably be gone, but given other teams need talls, and how high some are on Gourdis and Myers (who I'd rather take than Rance if available at this stage, but like I said, I'm not the best judge), as well as McEvoy, there may be an opportunity to pick up a steal.

That said, if McEvoy is drafted by St. K, the strength and weaknesses of our list would suggest he'd ruck, and have a great shot at doing it in the AFL inside the next 2 years. I won't be dissapointed if that's who we get.

[HarveysDeciple]

I'd love Palmer to sneak through to 9, but I can't see that happening.

He'll probably go 5 or 6.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Also on Rioli:

He has great vision and player awareness and a fantastic flat, long left foot kick that allows him to pick out his man. He also has a great long handball in his bag of tricks which he occasionally brings out as well. It is also worth noting that he works well at full pace and in tight situations and even in those situations he seems to take the right option. Up forward he is a goal scorer who is good on the lead as well as roving packs and his is a dead-eye shot for goal – maybe not Maric like but up there with anyone else in this draft.

i like the sound of those pionts !! a guy who can hit a target and kick straight on goals !!

[saintsRrising]

But my preference is for a midfielder or Rioli with pick #9.

Ebert, Masten, Cotchin, Palmer, Myers, Morton and Grimes have all been touted as top 10 prospects at different stages.

That's 8 midfielders - so two of those at least will be available with pick #9.

Yes my preference is that too......so I am hoping that the 8 picks below us strongly feature talls....so a good mid is still available..

At AFL level Morton and Myers should be good players...but I am not convinced that this will be as a mid, but rather as flankers or even KPPs.


So for me for us to take a mid a lot will depend on who the Dogs, Dons and Lions take...

If they go tall for Henderson, McEvoy or one of the clutch of 190-194cm players etc...then our chances having one of the "good" mids slipping becomes good.

From whay I have read the more highly rated mids are:

Tier 1= Cotchin, Palmer (will not slip yo 9)

Tier 2 = Masten, Ebert, Rioli

If we could land anyone of the Tier 2 mids I would be happy.



If one of the 5 mids is not available then I would switch to a FB as per my OP.....


I certainly would not be upset though if it was McEvoy.....but yes my preference is for others.

[i_luv_nick_riewoldt]

I would like to have McEvoy but i dont want us to use our #9 pick for him. From the stats ive seen from his season, suggests he is up with the likes of Kruezer in rucking ability. Although like other posters have suggested there are other players that are seen as a priority before Ben.

[Art Vandelay]

I believe we have an adequate supply of inside type midfielders but need some class on the outside - therefore, I would lean towards rioli as a preference (should he be available). We desperately need someone with blistering pace and that touch of magic which we haven't had for a while (since Winmar actually). Rioli sounds like a 'game breaker' and would compliment and finish of the hard work of Ball, Hayes, Harvey and Montagna beautifully.

[vacuous space]

Here's a few reasons why I think McEvoy will be the pick:

1) I think he'll be there. Carlton, Richmond and West Coast definately won't take him. Melbourne and the Doggies have picks later in the top 20 with which I think they'll be targetting a key forward. Either team could opt for McEvoy as a ruckman, but I think the mids will be more interesting to them. I don't think any of Essendon, Fremantle and Brisbane go for McEvoy.

2) The mids will be gone. Cotchin, Ebert, Masten and Palmer will probably be gone before our pick. Rioli, I think, might still be there. I don't think we take him even if he is.

3) The KPPs are risky. Henderson's coming back from an injury and isn't what we really need anyway. I'm not sure our underfunded recruiting staff will have seen enough of Gourdis to justify taking him so early. That probably holds true for a lot of the Western Australians, including Myers and Rance.

4) We need a ruckman. If we pass on McEvoy, there better be somebody we really like later in the draft, because once Kosi moves forward, we've got two ageing, injury prone ruckmen and a guy who can't ruck and refuses to kick the ball. Neither of our rookie list rucks can be counted on for the future.

IMO he'll be the player we most need, and the best player available. As much as some people on here are very resistant to the idea, I think it's McEvoy.

[mad saint guy]

Cyril Rioli and Callan Ward are the two players who perfectly suit our needs, and one of them is almost certain to be available at pick 9. I hope we don't even consider Rance or McEvoy.

[Lynch Beast]

you don't want palmer, he is a more extroverted Chad Fletcher (2006 Fletcher, not the awesome 2004 Fletcher)

Seriously, he is a 15 metre player - get the ball from an inside midfielder, get caught and then ineffective handball turnover x 32 times a game.

terrible field kicking, rarely tries to kick long and when he does he misses the target 85% of the time

kicked a few cheap goals in the U18's but that was on the back of a very dominant midfield and 3 goal assists to Masten. Pointless taking a midfielder who can't hit a forward on the lead or kick goals from the 50 and isn't the least bit versatile.

he is also ~1 year older than the other kids, the only thing that improved over the year was his engine and body size.

many players with MUCH more upside available

Rhys Palmer

Good
- Engine
- Ball winning
- handy sidestep
- ok around goals

bad
- short
- lacks genuine pace (gets caught way too often)
- kicking
- overhead marking (non existent)
- hands are not clean at all
- tunnel vision way too often

similar overall to Byron Schammer (also a star at U18's)

[vacuous space]

Cyril Rioli and Callan Ward are the two players who perfectly suit our needs, and one of them is almost certain to be available at pick 9.

What needs are those? Rioli and Ward will struggle to get a game for at least two years if we pick either of them.

[SaintBot]

Cyril Rioli and Callan Ward are the two players who perfectly suit our needs, and one of them is almost certain to be available at pick 9.

What needs are those? Rioli and Ward will struggle to get a game for at least two years if we pick either of them.

disagree strongly

rioli will be very similar to Alwyn Davey this year.

His explosive speed will mean he can athletically play senior football in 08

[vacuous space]

disagree strongly

rioli will be very similar to Alwyn Davey this year.

His explosive speed will mean he can athletically play senior football in 08

Davey was 22 and playing for a team with a lot of holes. He was always going to get some gametime for Essendon, although he was definately exceeded espectations. I'd say Rioli is more like Leroy Jetta or Nathan Djerrkura. If he gets taken by a bad team he'll probably get at least a few games. But I can't see him getting gametime ahead of Milne or Schneider up forward and I don't think he's physically ready for the midfield.

[borderbarry]

Further on Riolli, I believe he had the most goal assists in the U18 interstate competition.

[saintsRrising]

IMO he'll be the player we most need, and the best player available. As much as some people on here are very resistant to the idea, I think it's McEvoy.

Well this is a fun time of year and we all get to guess....and you may well be correct.

[mad saint guy]

What needs are those? Rioli and Ward will struggle to get a game for at least two years if we pick either of them.

Skilled, quick, versatile, smart, damaging around goals.

Rioli and Ward fit that description, and it is exactly the kind of player we need.

And those types of players are the types being protected by rule changes and interpretations. As long as they are quick and evasive it is very unlikely that they will get hurt. It is too risky to lay a decent hip and shoulder, any wrestling will be punished and "dangerous tackles" are outlawed.

Davey was 22 and playing for a team with a lot of holes. He was always going to get some gametime for Essendon, although he was definately exceeded espectations. I'd say Rioli is more like Leroy Jetta or Nathan Djerrkura. If he gets taken by a bad team he'll probably get at least a few games. But I can't see him getting gametime ahead of Milne or Schneider up forward and I don't think he's physically ready for the midfield.

Davey was 22 and only got serious about his footy at age 21. He was also playing in a team with far better small forward stocks than St Kilda. It would be much harder to get a game as a small forward ahead of Hird, Lovett, M.Johnson, Monfries, Welsh and Jetta than Milne, X.Clarke and Sweeney.

If Jetta was at St Kilda he would have played at least half of the season in the seniors. He kicked a few good goals and made some good tackles in the forward line.

If Rioli or Ward came to St Kilda they would probably play at least 8 games as a small forward/outside midfielder. We have very few players with both pace and skill, so I don't think they would find it too hard to get a game.

[saintsRrising]

Whomever we take at No 9...mid..KP or ruck...if we get more than a few senior games from them in 2008 it will be a bonus.....or a sign that we have not overcome our horrendous injury run.

Hopefully Armo, Geary and Eddie will also be pushing up in 2008, as well as hopefully the forgotten man Howard.....so that our 2007 draftees can just be eased in and developed.....

[mad saint guy]

Here's a few reasons why I think McEvoy will be the pick:

IMO he'll be the player we most need, and the best player available. As much as some people on here are very resistant to the idea, I think it's McEvoy.

McEvoy is an interesting case. In most drafts I wouldn't be opposed to the pick, but he isn't a stand-out player and there are numerous other ruck options available later in the draft. The likes of Simpson, Conelly, Putt and Mulligan really aren't far behind McEvoy, but any midfielders available with our later picks aren't in the same league as Rioli and Ward.

Most good ruckmen are either drafted with an extremely high pick because they dominated as a junior (White, Gardiner, Fraser, Ottens, Leuenberger) or they were taken much later and developed over time (Cox, Sandilands, Lade, Everitt). There are very few good ruckmen who don't go very early or very late.

I think McEvoy will be a David Hale-level player at best. A guy who will have his regular spot safe, but never really be good enough to have a big impact. Maybe average 10 possessions, 1 goal and 10 hitouts per game as a forward/backup ruckman.

[jill]

Hope we get Saint Cyril - but it's all in the lap of the gods - oops - recruiting staff. LET'S FACE IT - WE'LL EMBRACE / SUPPORT ALL OUR NEW SAINTS come Sept. 24 - unlike our country's rulers!

[Brian Collis]

I wanna know how all you guys have become experts at picking draft hopefuls when most of you should be studying or if u have free time watching the Saints play on the weekend. I have enough trouble watching the game, reading up on it and trying to keep the missus happy without watching enough U18 games to find out who and why is playing well and also studying their strengths and weaknesses to see whether they would make it to the AFL. So someone please explain how u become an expert in this field where there is so little coverage?

[saintsRrising]

I wanna know how all you guys have become experts at picking draft hopefuls when most of you should be studying or if u have free time watching the Saints play on the weekend. I have enough trouble watching the game, reading up on it and trying to keep the missus happy without watching enough U18 games to find out who and why is playing well and also studying their strengths and weaknesses to see whether they would make it to the AFL. So someone please explain how u become an expert in this field where there is so little coverage?

Well I know I am no expert at assessing them....which is why I started the OP with the disclaimer..

"Well firstly the big proviso that I have seen very little of any of the kids play.......so the following is based upon the observations of others and in particular a number of BigFooty Posters.."


However what this time of year is Brian I think a bit of fun in the off-season trying to put the various snippets of information together...and one of the challenges is trying to make sense of which bits of info is from people that have actually watched a lot of the kids play and there are some who have, but not I believe too many on this particular forum. Some is from Bigfooty...some from people like Sheehan...some from the media......and some from other sources.....


A lot is also just regurgitated...a bit like radio news which is often just a re-run of the mornings paers....but there is alsoa lot of good info about.



It is however for me very interesting to read ALL forumites views on what the Saints need and why.....and which of the draftees that they think can deliver on them....mitigated by who they think may be avaiable of course.

[Oh When the Saints]

There is a draft and trade board on BigFooty, where a couple of part-time scouts, assistant TAC coaches and other very knowledgeable people post with a lot of info on potential draftees.

Check the sticky at the top of the page, which will give you a rundown of everyone who is available this year and their strenghts etc.

I think McEvoy will be a David Hale-level player at best. A guy who will have his regular spot safe, but never really be good enough to have a big impact. Maybe average 10 possessions, 1 goal and 10 hitouts per game as a forward/backup ruckman.

I actually think McEvoy will end up like Brendon Lade or Jamie Charman. He is big and strong with great hands and excellent ruckwork.

He was as good as Kreuzer in the TAC Cup and averaged a similar number of hitouts despite spending a lot of time forward.

In the middle of the year, most had him going Top 5, so he is a definitely an elite player.