Who's got the edge in '08 (warning, very long post)

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Who's got the edge in '08 (warning, very long post)

Post: # 507406Post BAM! (shhhh) »

Looking up and down the ladder from '07, the finals were dominated by teams starting to realise "potential", where the next 4 were covered by teams that had to be classed as disapointments. The bottom 4 should shuffle as well, though as odd as it is to say, only Carlton appears any sort of finals chance.

I wonder who others think are the contenders and pretenders in '08?

2007 Final Ladder

1) GEELONG 72 Pts 158%

Have to be considered the presumptive favourites, they were just so far ahead of the pack. I don't think they're untouchable, and they're going to be hard pressed to maintain the same level, however until either someone else sustains a lifted game and Geelong proves to have lowered theirs, they'll enter every match as favourites.

PREDICTION: Top of the ladder again.

2) PORT ADELAIDE 60 Pts 113.5 %

Would be my candidate for most likely to slide. They took the AFL by surprise in '07 with their young, pacy list to support their still strong core of Burgoynes and Corneses. The achilles heel of youth is often inconsistency, and the reality of their success is that every team will be ensuring their gameplan accounts for dealing with Port. Like the Bulldogs in 06/07 I don't expect the '08 Power to be as good as the '06 result, though I don't expect them to fall as far.

PREDICTION: between 4-8.

3) WEST COAST 60 Pts, 111.7%

If any team appears ready for a fall, it's the Eagles, who are without Judd and Cousins, dismantling the premier midfield of the AFL. They're still dangerous, with Cox and Glass perennial AA calibre players, and Lynch coming into his own, plenty of run, and plenty of clearance talent. I suspect this year will be an evaluation year, as the Eagles determine whether to rebuild (and around who) or retool if players can step up. The Subi factor will keep them in the mix, but too many teams are going to be primed to play them outside of Subi, with the best teams beating them over there.

PREDICTION: 9-12

4) KANGAROOS 65 Pts 109.3%

Unable to command respect from many during the home and away, their top 4 finish was overshadowed in many pundits view by their 2 drubbings in the finals. It should not be disregarded that it was Geelong and Port who destroyed them, and they beat Hawthorn, and did it well. They retain a midfield of clearance players and stoppers, their defense appears solid, thought their forward line will reamina questionable, even with the return of Thompson. IMO, part of their top 4 finish was the number of good teams who dissapointed in '07, however they're better than half the comp, and a key danger side for the other half. I think they'll slide a couple of places as others improve, but remain a top 8 side in '08.

PREDICTION 4-8

5) HAWTHORN 52 Pts 113%

This team is starting to come of age. Built on solid drafting and good development, they've got stars, they've got grunt, they've got speed and excecution. They've also got coaching as IMO Clarkson had a big year in '07. I expect them to build on the success of their '07 campaign.

PREDICTION Top 2.

6) COLLINGWOOD 52 Pts 101%

Collingwood has virtually managed to hide the fact of their rebuild by getting good results regardless. Most important of their '07 result is that it was done without Buckley, and regularly missing Clement. The emergence of Travis Cloke is huge, if he can straighten up at goal, he can join the premier CHFs. The only question I retian is the young defense, who IMO played above themselves in '07 - should they slip, it could sabotage the '08 campaign... however, I expect Collingwood to be a force in '08 as the pieces truly start coming together.

PREDICTION 3-4.

7) SYDNEY 50 Pts 119%

Their good percentage belies how close Sydney came to missing out in '07. I suspect Sydney are in for a challenging '08. A lot of their players are aging, teams know what to expect against Sydney and set it as a benchmark game for their tackling and work ethic. The return of Kenneally will help, but I don't see them climbing, and I think others from this area of the ladder have improved a lot more. Along with their rival Eagles, I see Sydney departing the finals picture in '08.

PREDICTION 9-12.

8) ADELAIDE 48 Pts 101.9%

While I list Adelaide amongst the good teams who dissapointed in '07, with the retirement of Ricciuto, I mark it as the beginning of the end of an era. Teams will need to beware of their midfield still featureing Goodwin and Edwards and some talented younger players in Knights and Van Ryn, but even with the return of Hentschal, this is a forward line whose lack of goals will not be made up for by it's stingy defensive outlook. Their rebound game isn't going to surprise anyone, teams are well aware that once the ball is in play, stop Macleod and the Crows are going to struggle.

PREDICTION Bottom 4.

9) ST. KILDA 46 Pts 96.5%

Rose coloured glasses on. This will be the year the Saints overcome the injury bug. Given that, and the additions, the Saints will be this years team who go from outside the 8 into the top 4. They will continue to rule the dome, giving them a fast start, pick up Sydney's mantle of toughest team to play against, and allow the least goals against, letting the finish strongly. No individual awards, but team success. Biggest risks for the Saints are the ever present injuries of the last 4 years, and the lack of intimidation this big side hands out, letting small quick players on oppositions sides play more confidantly than should be the case, and poor team disposal. We know how good they can be when fit and firing, now thanks to '07, we know just how beatable they can be too.

10) BRISBANE 40 Pts 105.8 %

Adding Travis Johnstone to this strong clearance midfield is huge. Getting back Bradshaw is big too, and I expect a better year from Justin Sherman. For those who didn't notice, outside a woeful middle of the season, the Lions weren't bad early, and very good late. I expect them to return to finals in '08.

PREDICTION 6-8

11) FREMANTLE 40 Pts 102.5 %

I really want to predict Freo to miss out again. Possibly the single most dissapointing team of '07, they were supposed to be challenging for the flag, instead they were the poster team for lack of discipline. Something is simply wrong with Fremantle, and whether changing the coach was the answer, I will believe this team will achieve to their ability when I see it happening. They're another candidate to jump to the top of the ladder with their list, but on gameday they're too implosion prone. Some big wins at home will keep the % high, and they're just too talented not to take a few on the road. Surely finals bound in January, we'll see how they go on the field...

PREDICTION: 5-15 :) (okay, fine then, 6th!)

12) W BULLDOGS 38 Pts 85.5%
Still have issues to address in many positions, but after getting ahead of themselves 12 months ago, I expect them to attempt to succeed Adelaide in the same way St. Kilda will succeed Sydney. With numbers back it will be about the rebound game, and a number of their mids need to step up and reduce the reliace on Gilbee ala Macleod. In their favour, Murphy and Hahn add some height, and the extra hunger of a poor '07 gives them a good chance of finals if anyone slips up, but they're a long way from premiership contention, and overreliance on a few players (Johnson and Gilbee) means IMO, they're an outside bet.

PREDICTION: 9th

13) ESSENDON 40 Pts 91.23%

New Coach, new philosophy, younger players... whatever they've said in the press, I think Essendon are expecting a very tough year. If they're not, I think they should be. Honestly, they don't have a lot of areas of strength, and while they'll win a couple thanks to a few players having big games, they'll be right down the bottom.

PREDICTION: Bottom 2.

14) MELBOURNE 20 Pts 78.16 %

Look like a team on the verge of total rebuild, other than Bruce and Neitz, so much of this list is players who have never reached their full potential. Carroll, Miller, Green... White is not longer what he was under the old ruck rules, and Neitz is up to swansong time. Could be a long year for the red and the blue. I gather the coach has big plans for every player - I suspect he's in for a lesson about the top job, and that plan will need to be heavily revised in practice.

PREDICTION Wooden Spoon.

15) CARLTON 16 Pts 74.44 %

Adding Judd and Stevens into the mix means if this midfield stays healthy, Carlton are a very different beast to what we've become used to. Players are starting to find posessions, and I expect them to be competitive in '08. IMO, their biggest achilles heel will be that in tight games, this is a list that doesn't ahve the experience grinding out wins, which will keep them from finals for another year.

PREDICTION 9-12

16) RICHMOND 14 Pts 77.18 %

Will be improved by the return of injured players. Unfortunately for them, that doesn't say much, as many weeks that just means from woeful to bad. They need a lot of their youth to step up and start making presences felt to escape the bottom 4.

PREDICTION 13-16

PREDICTED '08 LADDER

Geelong
Hawthorn
Collingwood
St Kilda
Port
Fremantle
Kangas
Brisbane

Bulldogs
Carlton
West Coast
Sydney
Adelaide
Richmond
Essendon
Melbourne


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Post: # 507409Post Armoooo »

Nice sum up, I would agree with most of it however I believe you are overrating the bulldogs by quite a bit, they were a bottom 4 team last year and I can't see any improvement coming from them...


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Post: # 507410Post midas_touch »

Armoooo wrote:Nice sum up, I would agree with most of it however I believe you are overrating the bulldogs by quite a bit, they were a bottom 4 team last year and I can't see any improvement coming from them...
Dogs were 9-6 up until round 15, plus they suffered a number of key injuries. Although I don't think they'll make finals, I have them winning 10-11 games.


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Post: # 507412Post Armoooo »

midas_touch wrote:
Armoooo wrote:Nice sum up, I would agree with most of it however I believe you are overrating the bulldogs by quite a bit, they were a bottom 4 team last year and I can't see any improvement coming from them...
Dogs were 9-6 up until round 15, plus they suffered a number of key injuries. Although I don't think they'll make finals, I have them winning 10-11 games.
The dogs simply can not run out a season, they still rely far too much on Johnson and West who are now a year older as well as Akka and Welsh, they rely too heavily and Cross and their backline is still to unaccountable, they still have a very similar game plan to the one they have had for the past few years except they now lack the pace to execute it, they don't have enough quality forward options and still a sus backline....

7-9 wins IMO...


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Post: # 507419Post HarveysDeciple »

Agree with most of that...

Eagles won't miss the 8 though.

I think 08 represents something of a transition year for them, they will slide a touch but not much.

I reckon they will finish around about 6th, before bolting back up to top 4 in 09.

Crows and Swans to miss the eight,

blues, lions and hopefully saints to be big improvers.

Lions certain finalists in my eyes.

Dees or Bombers wooden spoon.


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Post: # 507421Post st.byron »

Armoooo wrote:Nice sum up, I would agree with most of it however I believe you are overrating the bulldogs by quite a bit, they were a bottom 4 team last year and I can't see any improvement coming from them...

Agree with that.
Also, I don't think Wet Toast are going to slide much. Cousins and Judd are their major losses and they both had far less impact last year than previously. I hope I'm wrong and they finish stone motherless last with no wins, a decimated list and substantial off field drama.
Did I mention that I don't like the Eagles?


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Post: # 507424Post yipper »

Pretty fair summary. I reckon the Eagles will have a very tough year, but are still good enough to finish top 8 - around 5-7 I reckon. Lions certain improvers as I genuinely believe we will be to. Crows will slide dramatically and Sydney will be struggling this year. Essendon may be a better team going forward - but will most likely slump in 08. Doggies are still to small!! The Kangas will be unbelievable if they are up there again - more likely 9-12. For mine:

The 8 = Cats
Port
Saints
Lions
Coll
Hawks
Eagles
Shockers


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Post: # 507425Post saintsRrising »

Very Good OP..

I think with Port though that finishing 2 was an over achievement in part due to ther teams (Saints included falling over) and playing in the GF wasway above expectations though I tipped them to make the 8 last year.....and that they will dip but will be still well above their 2006 level.

WC is an interesting one.....how much will Judd going and Cousins being turfed out upset them and destablise things???? they should still be good enough with their home games to be top 5.....but the Judd?Cousins factors will cause a big unknown.

Dons to be pushing for the spoon.

The Tiges may surprise a bit if they can get their full team back on the park...but not top 8.

The Dees arean extreame tea,...the Girl with the Curl who can be very good or very bad. Which way will their new coach inspire them in 2008?? I think that they will be above the Dons though.

The Dogs seem to be having a lot of off-field turmoil and that cannot be helpful.

Swans...rebuilding time I think...Ditto for the Crows whose best players are now gone or past their best.

Hawks???? 2nd in 2008?? a lot would have to go right. Yes they have stockpiled alot of talent but may just need another year or two.

Fre?? Who knows?? Along withe Demons can be very good or very poor. They should be better than they are, but they are not.

Pies. Showed what application and teamwork can do in 2007 and expect more of the same in 2008. Picking up Wood for their ruck should help allowing Fraser to play more as a tall forward.

The Cats were good in 2007...so credit there.....but it was also their good fortune to peak in a year when most other teams were not at their best. You can only beat who you play on the day...but I expect that they will have stiffer competition in 2008.


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Post: # 507428Post Armoooo »

saintsRrising wrote:Very Good OP..
Pies. Showed what application and teamwork can do in 2007 and expect more of the same in 2008. Picking up Wood for their ruck should help allowing Fraser to play more as a tall forward.
If Wood is considered good enough to be first ruck I would expect to see Fraser on the wing, he plays his best footy when he is given free roam and he can drift forward from time to time, Collingwood already have Rocca, Cloke and Rusling in their 22 with the chance of Ben Reid stepping up...


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Post: # 507456Post Oh When the Saints »

Nearly spot on, and terrific post.

I have the Tigers a little higher - a fit Simmonds and the return of Coghlan will help them enormously, as will the addition of McMahon as a quality player.

I am tipping Richmond between 8th and 12th.



What happens if Brad Ottens does his knee in Rnd 1? Who rucks for Geelong? Mark Blake and ......... some rookie?

They would lose out significantly.

Don't underestimate the loss of Ablett on the field and King off the field, plus the suspect injury histories of a few of their players (Harley).


Geelong are vulnerable IMO. Very vulnerable.


They should only play AFL games now when it's raining. Slow games of footy are so much better to watch.
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Post: # 507474Post plugger66 »

Oh When the Saints wrote:Nearly spot on, and terrific post.

I have the Tigers a little higher - a fit Simmonds and the return of Coghlan will help them enormously, as will the addition of McMahon as a quality player.

I am tipping Richmond between 8th and 12th.



What happens if Brad Ottens does his knee in Rnd 1? Who rucks for Geelong? Mark Blake and ......... some rookie?

They would lose out significantly.

Don't underestimate the loss of Ablett on the field and King off the field, plus the suspect injury histories of a few of their players (Harley).


Geelong are vulnerable IMO. Very vulnerable.
What you say about Geelong you could say about any club but they have better depth. Geelong should be short priced favourites but are not over line.


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Post: # 507478Post rodgerfox »

plugger66 wrote:
What you say about Geelong you could say about any club but they have better depth. Geelong should be short priced favourites but are not over line.
How well did their depth hold up in 06?


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Post: # 507479Post plugger66 »

rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
What you say about Geelong you could say about any club but they have better depth. Geelong should be short priced favourites but are not over line.
How well did their depth hold up in 06?
And that has alot to do with 2008. There depth is better now because the players improved or do you think players cannot improve.


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Post: # 507490Post Armoooo »

The biggest risk with Geelong is most likely to be now that they've been there and done that they might not be willing to work as hard, they weren't dominate because their players were better than any other team, they dominated because they had a mixture of quality players, a good team bond and a game plan that played to their strengths....

It could just take a few things to go wrong and they could be off the rails, Johnson could get back on the grog, Mooney could start whacking people again and they could be right out of the 8...


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Post: # 507491Post plugger66 »

Armoooo wrote:The biggest risk with Geelong is most likely to be now that they've been there and done that they might not be willing to work as hard, they weren't dominate because their players were better than any other team, they dominated because they had a mixture of quality players, a good team bond and a game plan that played to their strengths....

It could just take a few things to go wrong and they could be off the rails, Johnson could get back on the grog, Mooney could start whacking people again and they could be right out of the 8...
Again that can happen to all clubs. They had luck last year but the main thing is the depth. This year that hasnt really changed but it will when the salary cap kicks in next year.


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Post: # 507495Post BAM! (shhhh) »

st.byron wrote:
Armoooo wrote:Nice sum up, I would agree with most of it however I believe you are overrating the bulldogs by quite a bit, they were a bottom 4 team last year and I can't see any improvement coming from them...

Agree with that.
Also, I don't think Wet Toast are going to slide much. Cousins and Judd are their major losses and they both had far less impact last year than previously. I hope I'm wrong and they finish stone motherless last with no wins, a decimated list and substantial off field drama.
Did I mention that I don't like the Eagles?
Cousins and Judd less impact in '07? Than in '06 and '05 perhaps, and look where they ended up. Remember, For the first 12 rounds, Judd was better than any mid in the history of the Brownlow, and that's with Kerr opening the season on fire. While those votes in and of themselves are not the measure, point is that for the first half of the year, Judd was awesome by any measure. In the second half of the year, Cousins return offset Judd's injury... without Cousins many of those games would have turned out quite differently (including the Telstra Dome game against the Saints).

Now they have neither. Shutting down Priddis, Kerr and <insert player x> is not to be underestimated, but their midfield falls much more into line with the rest of the AFL now.

As for the Dogs, I was awfully tempted to put them in the 8, and awefully tempted to leave out Freo. IMO there are too many holes in the list to put the Dogs in unless someone elses season takes a tumble, and too much talent on Freo to leave them out. If Murphy and Hahn can stay healthy, that's a big start in helping Johnson, and don't underestimate the return of Daniel Cross (IMO the dogs best player ahead of both Johnson and West)... 2 big question amrks on the Dogs are health (not unlike the Saints, except right now we're healthier) and their young 2nd tier mids. I also expect Akermanis to have a better 2nd campaign - after a season to adjust, his talent will tell, and his teammates are 12 months more used to him.


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Post: # 507496Post SaintBot »

brilliant summary

I'll start from the bottom:

Richmond as bad as they were last year they did show tremendous improvement in the last four games (including giving us a good challenge in round 22). Terry is on his last year, he will be out to save his own skin - if that means playing the basketball crap which he used two seasons ago then so be it. I can see the Tigers challenging a few mid-weight and some top-weight clubs and being a serious Challenger to the bottom eight clubs. If they start well then expect to see them in the 9th - 12th category, if a poor start occurs then we saw what happened with Carlton this year...that priority pick will be available for Joel Smouha.


Carlton I agree with. Judd won't be the difference between bottom and top eight though. A combination of the return of Stevens, the departure of Whitnall and Pagan, young players a year older, etc is going to be the difference. Will just miss out on a finals spot but a team to keep your eye on.

Melbourne I agree completely with. New coach - whos already traded one of their number one on ballers. Nothing much to play for. Its going to be a sad 150th for the Melbourne Football Club.

Essendon. Again I agree. The new coach factor, the combination of young and old yet no in between players, the lack of firepower through the middle...its all going to be part of the crash landing for the Bombers.

Bulldogs. They didnt do anything to help their chances of rising in the off season. Full compliments to Rodney Eade for trying something different but it must be said that his 100% running game has clearly failed. You need a proper target up forward, Welsh will provide a bit of light but he is the only horse in a forward line of donkeys. Bottom four is a calling.

Fremantle. They have a new coach, and in this case - i believe it is the answer. The Dockers showed great improvement after Harvey took over and after the round 22 omissions (something like six players dropped for disiciplinary reasons) you can expect to see a much more dicisiplined lineup for Fremantle next year. Top eight is likely.

Brisbane - Can only improve! Bradshaw will add even more to the Brown held forward line. Leunburger and co are a year older and having Johnston in an already star struck midfield can only do wonders. September action is a must for the Lions.

St Kilda - Had the settlement season with Ross Lyon, now the hopefully fitter side can nail down the new gameplans with distinction in 08. In the top three sides for the second half of the year in 07 and with a dream start to the season I hope to see at the very least, 4 wins in the first 6 games. End of year? 5th spot, give or take 5.

Adelaide again i agree with. Another team with not enough scoring revenues. Maybe not bottom four just yet but a fall out of the eight is unavoidable.

Sydney, not enough injection of youth in the past few years is going to hit hard. The loss of Schneider will continue to have people scratching their head and an out dated game plan will see sydneys second premiership dream fall away. Still a chance but any injury to key players is going to cut them down in an instant. If Sydney thought having Nick Davis and Tadgh Kennelly out injured is a massive injury list then Paul Roos is in for a rude shock when Sydneys luck finally runs thin.

I still cant see how they achieved so much in 2007. Going forward the Magpies have plenty of great options but once the ball crosses the negative side of the centre line they are in major strife. O'Brien and Wakelin are one of the poorest key defender duos in the league and Prestigiacomo, even if fit, will be shocked as he sees the game fly past him. The key lies in the midfield, whether it can hold up against the premier sides is a real querry. 5-12th imo.

Sorry, i cant see Hawthorn making their serious mark just yet. They are missing plenty of names in their first few games due to suspension and retirements will force the young side to go for an even newer look in 08. No doubt Clarkson will be able to hold it together but I believe the Hawks will only make the finals as the away qualifiers, aka 3rd or 4th.

Kangaroos of the old predictability to return with the "welcomed" return of Nathan Thompson. Laidley can only do so much for his team. Im expecting the same fall that was expected twelve months ago.

West Coast is an interesting one. You have them falling out of finals. I disagree. Cousins was a loss for this season, he isnt going to be missed in 08. The Eagles amazing depth along with the arrivals of well built midfielders Ebert and Selwood and the dash of Masten is going to keep the Eagles flying in 08. Expect to finish anywhere from 3rd to 6th.

Port i agree entirely with. I cant see too much improvement coming to their side. If any change, it will be a fall with their aging stars, especially Tredrae, C.Cornes, P.Burogyne, Lade etc. Expect a small fall but still very much a finals side.

Geelong. Nothing more to add to what youve put. The departure of Ablett brings in (imo the better) Tom Hawkins. Their backline is the best in the league, their midfield is one of the best and their forwardline is competitive with even the best defences. Top four at least.


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Post: # 507548Post saintsRrising »

Armoooo wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:Very Good OP..
Pies. Showed what application and teamwork can do in 2007 and expect more of the same in 2008. Picking up Wood for their ruck should help allowing Fraser to play more as a tall forward.
If Wood is considered good enough to be first ruck I would expect to see Fraser on the wing, he plays his best footy when he is given free roam and he can drift forward from time to time, Collingwood already have Rocca, Cloke and Rusling in their 22 with the chance of Ben Reid stepping up...
I would not play Fraser as a key position....but wide and in space running.


With Rocca....I think he is starting to get past his use by date....so different forward set up may suit the Pies better and in particular as they have a fleet of good smalls plus Rusling.


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Post: # 507595Post Teflon »

No way known Collingwood will finish that high - yes good draw and all - however their midfield will struggle and as has been noted their defence looks shaky.
Rocca looks struggling to me (less mobile than Gehrig at times...) Presti the same, Burns older, Obree...pfft...., Holland...dancing...

Yes they have the flash of "Neon".. :roll: Thomas and Gunlord Dudak but IMO Pendlebury is the top notch class in this lot....and thats a fair weight to carry.

Josh Fraser aint a ruck and Wood needs to be Jesus to get this lot into top 4.


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Post: # 507598Post big_mac_evoy5 »

i can't see hawthon going above 6th and no lower then 9th because they have a good forward line good midfeild and a decent backline to get top two u have to have next to none in weaknesses. they have a very week backline beside croad. birchall and young are alright but not good enough to take some of the leagues best and cambell brown is a good player but u can't get 2nd with brown and croad can't be done. u close down there forward line u can open up the flood gates down the other end


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Post: # 507609Post Saints Premiers 2008 »

Armoooo wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:Very Good OP..
Pies. Showed what application and teamwork can do in 2007 and expect more of the same in 2008. Picking up Wood for their ruck should help allowing Fraser to play more as a tall forward.
If Wood is considered good enough to be first ruck I would expect to see Fraser on the wing, he plays his best footy when he is given free roam and he can drift forward from time to time, Collingwood already have Rocca, Cloke and Rusling in their 22 with the chance of Ben Reid stepping up...
to me playing a ruckman albeit more mobile than some on the wing is a waste of a player...wouldnt you want a fast long kicker on the wing...not a ruckman

if wood is the pies first choice they are in a bit of trouble...he still cant run games out and only plays well in spurts


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Post: # 507705Post rodgerfox »

saintsRrising wrote: I would not play Fraser as a key position....but wide and in space running.
Interesting point I think with Fraser.

I've always thought he's the most overrated footballer going around.

He's a big man, he doesn't have a big man's game. He plays a lurking, crumbing type of game.

The question is, if Fraser is to play in a 'wide and in space' type role, can he do it better than a genuine midfielder?

If he isn't going to play a KP, I'd piss him off for someone who can play the lurking, open spce type role far better.

Fraser doesn't take pack marks, and infact rarely even marks in his hands. He doesn't dominate any contests, including rucking contests. And as you eluded to above, spends most of time and gets all of his touches in open space.

However, there are dozens and dozens of players out there who can play that role better. Dozens with more pace and better skills.

Once it's conceded that he isn't a good KPP, then he needs to be traded. Surely.


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Post: # 507709Post BAM! (shhhh) »

SaintBot wrote:brilliant summary

I'll start from the bottom:

...

Bulldogs. They didnt do anything to help their chances of rising in the off season. Full compliments to Rodney Eade for trying something different but it must be said that his 100% running game has clearly failed. You need a proper target up forward, Welsh will provide a bit of light but he is the only horse in a forward line of donkeys. Bottom four is a calling.
I mostly agree. I think with both the Crows and Dogs, focusing that heavily on the rebound game is asking for trouble. Both applied it well 2 years ago. Every team now prepares for it - basically, to make it work, you need fast tall targets to hit (e.g. Murphy), good disposal, and an opposition that plays into you.

I think the Dogs will surprise some, because I think the difference Daniel Cross will make will be enough to lift their midfield in enough games to allow Hahn, Johnson and Murphy to score enough to make them competitive, but I really see them as a team that needs someone else to fall over... which any of St. Kilda, Brisbane and Fremantle are capable of. The other thing with the Bulldogs is they're injury prone to an almost St. Kilda like level - Giansiracusa is going to have a shortened preperation (recovering from surgery) Murphy's spent as much time off the park as on, Hahn's just soming back, Aka hasn't looked the same at the Telstra Dome, and Cross is coming back from a knee. Their depth is questionable, and '08 could find itself quickly as quickly derailed for them as for the teams they need to overcome to return to finals.
Fremantle. They have a new coach, and in this case - i believe it is the answer. The Dockers showed great improvement after Harvey took over and after the round 22 omissions (something like six players dropped for disiciplinary reasons) you can expect to see a much more dicisiplined lineup for Fremantle next year. Top eight is likely.
Ought to be a top 4 team, and surely they can't miss the 8 again... but they are the best in the AFL at finding a way to lose. I was surprised Connelly lasted as long as he did, and Harvey's been in the wings for a while, I'll be interested to see if he can get them playing anywhere near where they should, because that clubs inability to follow through boggles the mind.
I still cant see how they achieved so much in 2007. Going forward the Magpies have plenty of great options but once the ball crosses the negative side of the centre line they are in major strife. O'Brien and Wakelin are one of the poorest key defender duos in the league and Prestigiacomo, even if fit, will be shocked as he sees the game fly past him. The key lies in the midfield, whether it can hold up against the premier sides is a real querry. 5-12th imo.
Collingwood's backline is suspect... but was suspect through '07 without letting them down. They've got a straight up mix of pure shutdown (Presti, Goldsack, Wakelin) and rebound (one of the reasons they get away with it a bit is teams need to respect collingwoods rebound and speed or bad things can happen fast), and Malthouse has always had a knack for finding himself an spare defender to help out. I'm willing to give them enough rope to hang themselves and say they'll break even most weeks (which Harry O'Brien shows up will have more than a little impact too).

The big thing I see with Collingwood is the age of some of their youth - e.g. Thomas, coming into year 3 I expect him to go from being a talented kid to taking a man's role after a couple of years in the gym - I think their midfield will fare better than many give them credit for.

Essentially, I can see why so many disagree with how high I have them, but I look at the way they've played and faded the last couple of years, the talent still to be blooded, and the extra experience, and I think frankly, a top 4 spot is theirs to lose rather than win in '08.
West Coast is an interesting one. You have them falling out of finals. I disagree. Cousins was a loss for this season, he isnt going to be missed in 08. The Eagles amazing depth along with the arrivals of well built midfielders Ebert and Selwood and the dash of Masten is going to keep the Eagles flying in 08. Expect to finish anywhere from 3rd to 6th.
Seems a lot disagree with my Eagles assessment (thought that might be the case :) ). I suppose my final piece of evidence that Cousins and Judd were important in '07 is this: during the patch where they had neither, they lost to St. Kilda and Brisbane at Subiaco. Brisbane and St. Kilda missed the 8, and West Coast finished top 4. Judd's first half and Cousins finish to the season IMO were more than instrumental, they were crucial.

I think a lot of mediocre players are going to be exposed on the Eagles list as a result of this loss of talent. They're not going to rush these kids (one of the hallmarks of their development program is patience), and certainly not going to make up for what they've lost with them.
The departure of Ablett brings in (imo the better) Tom Hawkins.
Agreed. Nablett's always had the talent, Hawkins has the desire. '08 may be roughly break even, but I don't see a big short term loss where I do see a big long term gain.


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Post: # 507710Post rodgerfox »

plugger66 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
What you say about Geelong you could say about any club but they have better depth. Geelong should be short priced favourites but are not over line.
How well did their depth hold up in 06?
And that has alot to do with 2008. There depth is better now because the players improved or do you think players cannot improve.
How do we know they have depth? It wasn't tested last year - they had no injuries.

In 06 it was tested. And the results showed how good their depth was.

There is nothing to suggest their depth is any good.

Take out Ablett, Bartel, Mooney and Scarlett for a few important weeks and see if their depth is any good.

Then give a few other key players such as Ottens and Ling some season limiting injuries to carry all year and see how well they go.


We've proven that we have the best depth going around. Our results with severe injuries compared to the results of other club's with severe injuries speak for themselves.


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Post: # 507724Post Lynch Beast »

West Coasts bad form almost always coincides with Ash Hansen not being in the team, its unbelievable how important he is to the team.

We won 8 from 10 in the games he played more than a quarter in, the others we had the 18 year old mitch brown trying his best but apart from a good first half in round 1 was way out of his depth fitness and experience wise.

West Coast are in a far better position overall than we were in 2002/2003 & 2004 and we made the 8 every time, missed the finals only twice in the last 18 or 19 years in fact

the Subiaco home ground is a massive advantage and should never be underestimated.


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